Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com - Question for the "it has to be a v8" folks...

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- - Question for the "it has to be a v8" folks... (https://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=397803)

I feel like I have to say this in every thread where V6 output is brought up.

323 HP doesn't mean much when the car is so heavy and the gearing is not that great.

*** This is not a bash on V6 cars or there owners! ***

I owned for for over a year and it's a great car -- but as stated (and coming from a 4th gen WS6 I can relate) -- it just doesn't touch those cars (I wasn't expecting it to before anyone asks).

People need to understand that while yes it's awesome the new 6's are putting out 300HP + they don't have the torque, gearing, or weight to back it up to compete with even the older V8's. If the 10-15 V6 had 300 ft-lbs of torque to go with the 323 ft-lbs we'd be having a whole different conversation

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stecky (Post 8261991)

My son has a V6. Its ok
I also have a V10 in my truck.

Nothing sounds like a V8

And if they can get 600 HP from a V6, just imagine the HP that the V8 is capable of. (More than 600)

I agree, there is just something special about a V8. I don't see why they couldn't have a place in our shiny, happy, uber efficient future.

The LS V8s are just as efficient as comparable power turbo 6s in real world fuel economy. They are inherently smoother and have a sound like no other engine. If car people and logic prevail over being PC and "new" tech the V8s will be around for a long time to come.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Notorious Bob (Post 8261812)

The 2016 Ford GT is going to be powered by a twin turbo v6 generating 600+HP.

If the next breed of Camaros go the same way and start using turbo-charged v6's will you abandon the Camaro as, in your eyes, it's no longer a proper muscle car?

Comparing a Ford GT to a camaro is like comparing a kia soul to an Escalade.

2 Completely different things.

Im all about the V8, if you're gonna get a 6, just buy the cheapest 6 you can buy so that you cant start saving for a V8.

That being said, I am to young to be apart of the "get off my lawn, with your wimpy V6" crowd. If a twin turbo V6 is faster, lighter and more efficient then the current V8s, then I would switch.

In this hypothetical scenario, V8s are obsolete.

Note, the hill I'd die on is the manual transmission one. You'll never find me in a performance car (like the Camaro, or vette etc.) with an auto tranny. Just go buy a Jeep

For the sound factor, a V6 could have 1000hp but it'll still sound like a V6.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd10013 (Post 8261871)

twin turbo V6 works fine for Nissan with the GTR. Beats the GT500 and corvett Z06 in the quarter mile. definitely a place for it.

+1!

"V8 sound"? Eh, I got the mp3 of an AC/DC song.

Power is power. If a TT V6 gets more power than a V8, I'm getting it.

Will it happen in a Camaro? No.
GM won't do it anytime soon due to the Camaro's market. In a new car? Yep.

If GM made a TTV6 and put it in the Camaro, they should just tell everybody it is a V8 and I bet most people would never know the difference...

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaffe (Post 8261856)

Was the last GT really a failure?? It wasn't meant to compete with Corvette, it was meant to compete with Ferrari's which it did. Also they are extremely desirable cars right now fetching even more than the MSRP was back in 04 and 05.

For the price point, it very much failed. It was roughly 140-150k...and it was outperformed by the Corvette and the Viper here in the US... As a performance car, it had sooo much potential...but that price point basically killed it for anyone really looking to do much with it.

Was it a bad car? No. However, it could it have been so much more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KMPrenger (Post 8261885)

Sorry bud, but I can't just let you get away with this one. :)

First....apparently you haven't heard any driving videos of the ATS-V with the LF4 TTV6. Its far from a headers/cammed V8, but its also far from "uber quiet driving". It has an aggressive exhaust with some growl....but yes it doesn't have deep rumble that a V8 can. We all know this, but it sounds much much better than some cheap sounding fart can V6 exhaust also. Also, not every V8 sounds great stock. The PP exhaust on the Camaro sounds sweet, but a stock L99 doesn't sound much better (until you are hard on it) than my modified V6 in my opinion.

Oh, but you see, I have seen the videos of it. In fact, I've seen pretty much all there is to see on that car. Now notice, that I never said it wasn't possible to make them sound that way, but you can't find a SINGLE V6 motor offered today that sounded like the Grand National when it rolled off the assembly line. Those cars, at least sounded like they had a pair when you drove them. And yes, I've driven several..

Additionally, pretty much every car today, to include the V8's, are designed to make them super quiet. Have you ever looked at all the baffling and noise reduction they put on the Camaros? I dropped 40lbs of mufflers off my car. The intake under my hood could be used to snorkel a Jeep...its ridiculous.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KMPrenger (Post 8261885)

Next "is there room for a turbo V6?" Currently with the LT1 expecting to go into the 6th gen I say no...there isn't. At least NOT the LF3/LF4. Those TTV6 engine would only step on the toes of the LT1, offering basically the same performance and the same gas mileage at the same, or higher cost. So no...it doesn't make sense until the V8 is gone.

On the other hand, if GM was to offer the rumored 3.0 TT V6, and offer it with say 350HP and 350 TQ as a step between the base 4 cylinder, and the V8. Then I'd say YES...there is certainly room. The n/a V6 would have to go away though as it would no longer make sense. By the way...I'd go for this option in a heart beat!!!

And yet, you agree that there is room for a twin turbo V6...:doh:

I never once specified the horsepower range or the size of the V6, but yes, it very does make sense and there is very much room for it. With the rumored LT1 coming to the SS, you can figure the output will be around the 470-480hp range. Even if it only jumps to say 450-460hp, thats still a solid jump. That almost guarantees the Stingray will be re-tooled and jumped over 500hp.

So now you have a twin-turbo V6 that can fit in the 370-380hp range no problem. You can of course continue to offer the base V6 with 323hp.

And considering GM has the 400hp TTV6 for the CTSV....its pretty easy to simply cut the boost or de-tune it to make it work.

And for the record, I'm not against a V6 powered muscle car. The GN and GNX are my 2nd favorite muscle car behind the Camaro. They were bad ass cars and while many will say they aren't muscle cars, they were in fact the very definition of them.

However, the Camaro was made famous by being a V8 in a small car. It is what pretty much lured a vast majority of it's fans to the car. Does this mean a V6 can't be a muscle car? Of course not, it's still a Camaro and it's still capable of being made fast.

V8 or bust

That said I would happily own the twin turbo V6 ATS-V

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbird76 (Post 8261933)

I don't know how you would call it a muscle car, any more than a honda civic modded out to high HP a muscle car. What makes a muscle car a muscle car?

The original muscle car idea was Pontiac taking the a-body Tempest and adding the 389 from larger cars to get a better HP to weight ratio for speed- the concept was displacement. I don't see how a smaller displacement but turbo'd v6 would be a muscle car, it's more on the lines of tuner or something at that point- IMO. Doesn't mean it's a bad car, but maybe a bad idea to open the "muscle car" term so loosely.

+1. No v6 is, or ever was, a true muscle car IMO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 45thAnniversary2SS (Post 8262256)

+1. No v6 is, or ever was, a muscle car IMO.

v8 camaros aren't muscle cars either.

they're just pony cars. like every other camaro.