new build for roadcourse....
 

Hey Guys. So i'm planning on trying the roadcourse when i move to the city. I'm getting a little discouraged by a lot of people cuz i have a supercharger. was gonna upgrade the oil cooler, rads, add a diff cooler, etc but im still not comfortable with it. im a total newb at racing and sure everyones gonna tell me to try it before i sell my s/c and build my engine....but anyway...

it will be somewhat of a budget build so im wondering if i should machine my ls3 to a 416/418 forged and get my heads milled/polished a little and do the rest myself. it will very much be a daily driver in the summer only, but i really want to hit the track. id like to sit at 550whp at LEAST...would i keep the id850s and zl1 fuel pump? dry sump? will i still need to upgrade cooling regardless? will i need 3.91 gears?? /cry

the main questions tho are what pistons/rods/rings/etc will i need with a 5-6k budget and is it even possible..... am i better off selling the whole engine, s/c and all, and getting a turn key? i think an lsx/ls7 block is out of my range lol....would be nice

if anyone has any similar build journals on here to recommend id like to see em. thanks!

best and easiest thing to do is. Get a oil cooler or oil/rad/dif cooler. Go out and drive your car. Throwing a bunch of parts at your car before you work on the driver mod is not the best idea. Go out have fun. If you blow it up. Then you will know what you need to mod. Some people with stock cars drive fast. They are good drivers. Go out and do a track day and get a instructor to help with your driving. Then its all about seat time. I need more seat time too.

I would get an IAT gauge, real brake pads, and radiator first. Then seat time. A BIG oil cooler with thermostat would be shortly after that.

You don't need the gears, it'll only make you shift more, with that power. At this point just have your tune gone over and make sure its very conservative from a timing and AFR standpoint. Some shady tuners also turn down knock sensors a lot. Forced induction adds more risk on a road course for the motor so gauge monitoring is very important. Thats why most road course builds stay n/a.

It will be hard to keep all temps in healthy ranges with a supercharger. You'll need all the cooling you can get, and oil cooler upgrade might also become a necessity. As was advised, gauges to check on oil, air temps would also be very important to monitor vitals, at least until you know how your car behaves in various driving and environmental conditions.

All good advice from the guys above.

The biggest challenge to a road course build is making the engine and drivetrain survive multiple seasons and not cook on a hot track day. I've noticed that my more experienced track rat friends tend to leave their motors nearly stock for that reason. Forget about at least 550 WHP, you'll be breaking stuff left and right. If I were to do it all over again I'd just get a Z/28 and do longtube headers, a tune and a serious oil cooler.

And as others have stated, oil temp is a weak link in the Camaro. I'm adding dual oil coolers to try to get it cool enough. I think a supercharged LS3 would be a real challenge in this regard.

I also think your budget is low unless you go really mild on the build.

I would dial that boost back as far as possible, with whatever pulleys that might require (I really don't have a feel for what a 3" pulley is worth, but for the track right now even 450 crank HP is more than you should be trying to use all of). Consider any milder-power tuning options that may be available. In addition to taking the suddenness out of the throttle response that won't be your friend as you're trying to gradually add throttle on corner exit, that should also alleviate the heat issues at least a little via less intake air compression heating.

3.91's are the wrong way to go at this stage in one's track day development. Strongly consider driving about one gear higher anyway, at least until you have good familiarity with the line you need to be on and how much/little throttle you can actually use there. Having the power roll on even slower will be a plus because you'll be able to focus on learning the new (to you) skills involved. Yeah, it may feel a little "doggy" compared to what you may have become accustomed to, but you'll be better off for it guaranteed. Never mind that your instructors' comfort levels can't help but benefit when nothing sudden happens as you or they drive.

One assessment of "good familiarity" with the line might be if you're never way too wide at any corner apex, or apexing too far before you get to the apex cones . . . and knowing when you're "off" a bit as it's happening whether your error is too early, too wide, or even too late.


One other thing - "winning" at a track day is to be able to drive your car home in the same condition it was in when you drove it to the track (minus some tire tread and brake pad life).

Which has brought me to strongly recommend a full brake fluid flush and replacement with one of the better DOT4 fluids and strong consideration of swapping in a set of at least entry-level track pads. Motul RBF600 is what I use for fluid and is my recommendation to you at this point, and there should be a Carbotech track pad compound that you can at least sort of use in daily driving. Brakes are at least as important as anything you do with respect to limiting engine power because even a NA car can and will run into brake fade in less than a full session at speed.


Norm

Great advice...i kinda was trigger happy with the mods last year and realized after a few close calls that i should try road cpurse and not public roads...i should just private sale this thing or part it out....get a z/28...but first maybe ill go on a cool day for one lap at a time and see if its right for me. Thanks guys!

good advise from all above. i'll add one more before you spend a bunch of money

take the car out as is and see if you like road racing (you will). for safety's sake, it would be good to upgrade the brake fluid before you go out.

that said, monitor your temps, don't try to be the fastest on the track, learn the line, listen to your instructor and most of all have fun

I think ill get an oil cooler and bigger rad before hand cuz theyll be handy for another engine or whatever regardless.

Great quote Norm. Couldn't agree more. We all love to outrun our run group but to me it's really become about constant improvement...improving MY lap times with the car I have by improving my driving.


2014 ZL1

Your first time or two you won't be seeing super high temps since you'll be learning the course and the car. Go to a HPDE where you get an instructor in the car. They will tell you to only drive at 6/10th's so that your focus is on learning the line and not trying to reign in horsepower or worry about losing it. If you get a good one they will be teaching you the entire time as you progress, speed it the last thing to be worrying about so your temps concerns will be minimal starting out.

I've done 9 HPDE days. Only mods I have done are suspention & tires. I'm an old crotch rocket rider(I have plenty TRUE unbeliveable stories) and I will tell you the road course WILL intimidate you at first, there is a lot going on, on the track. The Camaro is fast stock! Want to go fast? SEAT TIME! Extra HP WILL slow you down. Do yourself a favor and do a track day or two THEN think about mods. Your perspective will change!:Whoa5thGenSmall:

im thinking my best bet is to wait it out and get a 2016/17 1le or equivelant in the future and keep my 2010 for the street . im also thinking, for now, sell the s/c and go with agp turbos and a good boost controller so i can turn it down at the track and still have big power on the street until a dedicated track car is feasable. then if i decide to get more power in my 2010 the supercharger wont hold me back as much. i think that makes the most sense where im sitting right now?

To be honest, no. This is what will happen to you. You will go to the track, you will love it. You will keep going with the car you have. Stuff will break. You will realize it costs an insane amount to track even a stock car, let alone a heavily modified one. At which point you will either stop tracking, or only spend money on mods that help reliability from that point forward. Forget your street car power mods, tracking is a whole new addictive level of adrenaline.

1st thing to do is decide what class you want to run in. This will determine what you can do to your car if anything. One small change can move you up a class where you won't ever have a chance of being competitive. Then as others have said, start shooting paypal payments for tires, brakes, event fees, hotels, gas, unexpected mechanical failures and lots of long hours between events in the garage. Also get ready to buy a dually, trailer and probably a storage lease to store all the crap between events. You'll need 3 sets of wheels/tires, one for rain, two for dry. Too expensive to flat a tire and not be able to finish the weekend.

Sounds about right.... Also till you get a tow vehicle and trailer. I would get AAA premier. I got 8 events last year. I blew up my T56. down for 2 months. decided to upgraded to a tr6060 with zr1 5th and 6th and a new clutch. 8k later. Then did a weekend. Then upgraded my race seats to better ones. 5 minutes after picking it up. Got tagged in my rear drivers side wheel. Another month down. Forgeline had to make a new wheel. Then since my car was down I decided to go monoball bushings since they where replacing the tierod, a arms, and bushings anyways. Then made it to a few car meets. Took it out to thunder hill on dec 20th and blew up the slave. So car is sitting in the garage for a while. The good news is Synergy is going to take care of it since they installed it less then 2500 miles ago. So get ready to be a little frustrated here and there. When the LS7 is happy its amazing. When its grumpy it makes you want to :bonk::bonk::bonk:Have fun and remember seat time is better then mod time.

yep, the dollars verse smiles is steep, but there are few other adventures that give you that sensation. Why everyone else thinks we are crazy/stupid or both.

So i should run open lapping/amateur with an instructor and not mod/change a thing?? I guarantee im gonna get on it hard and melt the brakes or a motor. The s/c needs to go right?

The stock brake pads are surprisingly good, just make sure you've got plenty of thickness. Dot 4 fluid and a fresh synthetic oil (5W-50 is what I like) and change the oil right after the event, you'll probably be fine. Maybe add an oil cooler to be safe.

if i remember correctly the stock oil cooler is part of the rad right? do you mean a seperate heat exchanger just for oil? JDP was gonna hook me up with a bigger rad but im not sure if its got the oil compartment too or?

I'm not sure either. Last track day I ran my coolant was about 205 F but my oil would hit 290 F after just a few laps and I had to back off. My car had a 1LE oil cooler which is a coolant to oil type. Now I'm adding two air to oil coolers and bypassing the coolant to oil cooler. So now my radiator doesn't cool the oil at alll, which should keep the coolant even cooler. I'm keeping my radiator stock for now. I'm no expert but that is what I'm doing. X25 had a nice write up on his oil cooler set up, you may want to look at that thread

You don't need that stuff to get started on the road course, get out to your local track and participate in some HPDE day's. Find yourself a good instructor and go from there.



:thumbsup:

He's supercharged, otherwise I would agree

Merc makes a very valid point if you look at it from the point of,you don't know what you don't know yet. What I mean is there will be things that come up that are not even on your radar right now. OC1LE makes a point, on the oil cooling and thats an area I never would have thought I needed. I purchased a ZL1 thinking I was all ready to go but I am finding when I push the car the oil gets too got for my comfort level so I need to address it. Other than that I'm ivesting in new tires and and better track alignment. Its already more car than my talent can take me.

#1 mod to go faster is YOU!
Spend that mod money on training and instruction hours and you'll go faster than any of the mods you are looking at. Guaranteed...

yea i know youre all right . the modding bug always hits this time of year...i just wish it wasnt winter in canada so i could actually drive lol...

Indeed, the radiator doesn't seem to be bothered at all, though I still upgraded it since it was easier to try first :)

Here's my oil cooler how-to:
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=381050

Give this a read.....

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=348705

T.

Any updates Forklord?

Here is what I've done to prep for this season
1- ordered new tires- they will be a version of the PSS
2- got my alignment numbers ready to give to my shop
3-'ordered my tow hooks from ZL Addons (on the forum here)
4 - got new braided steel brake lines and will flush with Dot 4
5- read about tires and racing, reading tire temps and what they mean and how they relate to handling and alignment

Then I'm set to go. All my fluids are changed, engine, trans and diff. Brakes coming
I'll need to explore more oil cooling later for track days but I feel the above will launch me better into AuoX

#6 is the BIGGY!
I've signed up for 3 day driver traing to start my SCCA licensing requirements.The best mod money you can spend is on YOU. Get some seat time with a proper instructor and itll knockoff more time than modding ever will. S/C is fine as long as its not creating tons of Boost = Heat so turn it down amd work on driving. Then brakes and and suspension and then and only then more power. I can garauntee that 90% of the guys cant handle the stock vehicle well and the last thing they need is more power. It'll just get you into a situation you are not ready to deal with.

Post some pics of your racing season, we all want to follow along and see how you do.,

Try Autocrossing!
 

OP, If they have any autocross events near you I would highly recommend trying those as well. It will introduce you to handling concepts and aggressive driving without the longer 20 minute run sessions like seen on a road course. I know I have already learned a lot by just trying autocrossing. I have so much to learn.

Also when you are autocrossing and you are going to fast to make the turn and the front end starts to push you are not going 70 or 80 mph and sliding off the track. I've hit a few cones already in my 3 autocross events last year. To me autocrossing will teach you a lot of the really good basic skills needed. It's really just like a road course only smaller and not as fast for speeds. So you really get to focus on the technical stuff like turning, braking, hitting apexes, car control, etc... Plus the chances of breaking anything are much more reduced and I still have a blast doing it.

It usually only costs me $35 for the day and I get around 8 runs in. So not nearly as much on track time as road courses but I still get plenty of adrenaline rushes!

Give it a try and you might like it a lot! I still want to do road courses some day but until I have a good comfort level with my car control skills doing Autocross I think I'll just keep doing the Autocross to get more seat time and become a better driver first.

Good luck!

^^^^^ this
Seat time and DOT4