Question for the "it has to be a v8" folks...
 

The 2016 Ford GT is going to be powered by a twin turbo v6 generating 600+HP.

If the next breed of Camaros go the same way and start using turbo-charged v6's will you abandon the Camaro as, in your eyes, it's no longer a proper muscle car?

Can I answer for them?

YES!

And when sales plummet I'll get a sweet deal on one of those lowly 6's. :D

I would either jump to the Vette or just stick with 5th Gen or older Camaros.

For me, absolutely it has to be a V8....because that is why I fell in love with the car as a kid. Replacing it with a V6 would just cheapen it in my eyes. Even the days of a Grand National style V6 is gone, as everything is all about fuel economy and quiet, uber quiet driving.

Is there room for a twin turbo V6? Sure. Should it replace the V8? No.

And as for the Ford GT...its going to fail just like the last one did....because it will be priced too high and not worth a crap compared to its competitors....

are you from the future?

It's still a muscle car. The V6 output on these cars is still more than the classic 60's V8's in most cases.

Speed is all about the money you want to spend. How fast do you want to go?

Another one of these threads....

I don't think anyone would complain about 600hp, but I also don't see GM making a 600HP Camaro SS.... because it would start to compete closely with the vette, and it would require taking the ZL1 out of production, not to mention the cost of a twin turbo V6 600HP Camaro SS would be too expensive to be a regular production Camaro, it would be a 45K-55K+ MSRP car like the Zl1, Not 30K

The next camaro is going to be a V8 it competes with the Mustang Gt not the Gt, that's something for the corvette to compete with. Now will the next gen Camaro have a option for a turbo 4/6 probably because the new Mustang does. Would I drive a turbo 4/6 Camaro yea as a DD but I'd still have my SS in the garage for my race car / summer cruiser!

Yep, the v6 output from a Series 5 is more than that of the last Trans Ams (WS6 excepted which was slightly more) let alone vintage v8s (although I guess 2001-2 is now considered "vintage" :lol:

Was the last GT really a failure?? It wasn't meant to compete with Corvette, it was meant to compete with Ferrari's which it did. Also they are extremely desirable cars right now fetching even more than the MSRP was back in 04 and 05.

twin turbo V6 works fine for Nissan with the GTR. Beats the GT500 and corvett Z06 in the quarter mile. definitely a place for it.

Put that Fifth Gen V6 against any LS1 Fourth Gen (stock for stock). All it will see is taillights, outputs being what they are. Hope that doesn't come across as being aggressive, as that is not my intent. 01-02 being "vintage" makes me feel old.:lol:

As for the thread, I wouldn't own a Camaro that is not a V8, but I can appreciate the power and engineering that would go into a theoretical 600hp V6 Turbo Camaro.

:sorry: :lol:

if it comes with v6 twis i see a lsx swap soon! :D

Sorry bud, but I can't just let you get away with this one. :)

First....apparently you haven't heard any driving videos of the ATS-V with the LF4 TTV6. Its far from a headers/cammed V8, but its also far from "uber quiet driving". It has an aggressive exhaust with some growl....but yes it doesn't have deep rumble that a V8 can. We all know this, but it sounds much much better than some cheap sounding fart can V6 exhaust also. Also, not every V8 sounds great stock. The PP exhaust on the Camaro sounds sweet, but a stock L99 doesn't sound much better (until you are hard on it) than my modified V6 in my opinion.

Next "is there room for a turbo V6?" Currently with the LT1 expecting to go into the 6th gen I say no...there isn't. At least NOT the LF3/LF4. Those TTV6 engine would only step on the toes of the LT1, offering basically the same performance and the same gas mileage at the same, or higher cost. So no...it doesn't make sense until the V8 is gone.

On the other hand, if GM was to offer the rumored 3.0 TT V6, and offer it with say 350HP and 350 TQ as a step between the base 4 cylinder, and the V8. Then I'd say YES...there is certainly room. The n/a V6 would have to go away though as it would no longer make sense. By the way...I'd go for this option in a heart beat!!!

Lastly....not sure why you assume the Ford GT will be a massive fail??????

Gotta be a V8, Camaro's are iconic cars don't see them putting the SS or Z28 on the back burner anytime soon, Mustang sells have suffered I think there trying to reach out to another demographic to try to boost sales!

What does that have to do with the price of fish? :iono:

LT5

I will not buy another Camaro with the demise of the V8 if it happens. A new camaro represents(ed) a special time, and a turning point for me. Its a special day when I can buy a new camaro that still harkens back to earlier days of its heritage with potent v8 engines and that unmistakable v8 rumble.

When the day comes when the experience of a v8 in a camaro ends, then I will either retire and enjoy my current cars or look to buy a corvette or a truck.

Yep your right...4th gen SS will definitely outgun a current V6. doesn't help that the newer V6 is much heavier, and also has a less aggressive gearing ratio.

I think the next gen Camaro V6, with less weight, hopefully a performance pack option with a lower gear ratio, and a bit more HP will bring the two a bit closer together.

But the car still won't be as light as a 4th gen...otherwise I'd say it would be a pretty close race, with the torque advantage going to the LS1.

Honestly, I'd rather see them retire the Camaro and Corvette nameplates if/when emissions regulations push the V8 out of the realm of possibility. You can make your TTV6 all day long just don't call it a Camaro or a Vette.

There will be a V8 gen 6 Camaro. That being said, I would not hesitate to buy the turbo V6 if it offered the most performance I could get for the money I could afford to spend.

I don't know how you would call it a muscle car, any more than a honda civic modded out to high HP a muscle car. What makes a muscle car a muscle car?

The original muscle car idea was Pontiac taking the a-body Tempest and adding the 389 from larger cars to get a better HP to weight ratio for speed- the concept was displacement. I don't see how a smaller displacement but turbo'd v6 would be a muscle car, it's more on the lines of tuner or something at that point- IMO. Doesn't mean it's a bad car, but maybe a bad idea to open the "muscle car" term so loosely.

I think a TT V6 should be offered as a "performance" option for those buyers who don't want to go the V8 route....


350-400hp range would be nice.

I don't think the Z/28's of old, nor the 1LE's and Z/28's of now are muscle cars. To me a muscle car is car like our '69 BBC camaro. A boat load of power stuffed in a chassis that dies not handle (turn, stop, etc) very well. A great straight line car. That was exactly what I wanted as a teenager. It is not what I want now and I don't car what you cal a high powered car that handles.

My son has a V6. Its ok
I also have a V10 in my truck.

Nothing sounds like a V8

And if they can get 600 HP from a V6, just imagine the HP that the V8 is capable of. (More than 600)

V8 only for me.

I feel like I have to say this in every thread where V6 output is brought up.

323 HP doesn't mean much when the car is so heavy and the gearing is not that great.

*** This is not a bash on V6 cars or there owners! ***

I owned for for over a year and it's a great car -- but as stated (and coming from a 4th gen WS6 I can relate) -- it just doesn't touch those cars (I wasn't expecting it to before anyone asks).

People need to understand that while yes it's awesome the new 6's are putting out 300HP + they don't have the torque, gearing, or weight to back it up to compete with even the older V8's. If the 10-15 V6 had 300 ft-lbs of torque to go with the 323 ft-lbs we'd be having a whole different conversation

I agree, there is just something special about a V8. I don't see why they couldn't have a place in our shiny, happy, uber efficient future.

The LS V8s are just as efficient as comparable power turbo 6s in real world fuel economy. They are inherently smoother and have a sound like no other engine. If car people and logic prevail over being PC and "new" tech the V8s will be around for a long time to come.

V8 or go home...

Comparing a Ford GT to a camaro is like comparing a kia soul to an Escalade.

2 Completely different things.

Im all about the V8, if you're gonna get a 6, just buy the cheapest 6 you can buy so that you cant start saving for a V8.

That being said, I am to young to be apart of the "get off my lawn, with your wimpy V6" crowd. If a twin turbo V6 is faster, lighter and more efficient then the current V8s, then I would switch.

In this hypothetical scenario, V8s are obsolete.

Note, the hill I'd die on is the manual transmission one. You'll never find me in a performance car (like the Camaro, or vette etc.) with an auto tranny. Just go buy a Jeep

For the sound factor, a V6 could have 1000hp but it'll still sound like a V6.

+1!

"V8 sound"? Eh, I got the mp3 of an AC/DC song.

Power is power. If a TT V6 gets more power than a V8, I'm getting it.

Will it happen in a Camaro? No.
GM won't do it anytime soon due to the Camaro's market. In a new car? Yep.

If GM made a TTV6 and put it in the Camaro, they should just tell everybody it is a V8 and I bet most people would never know the difference...

For the price point, it very much failed. It was roughly 140-150k...and it was outperformed by the Corvette and the Viper here in the US... As a performance car, it had sooo much potential...but that price point basically killed it for anyone really looking to do much with it.

Was it a bad car? No. However, it could it have been so much more.

Oh, but you see, I have seen the videos of it. In fact, I've seen pretty much all there is to see on that car. Now notice, that I never said it wasn't possible to make them sound that way, but you can't find a SINGLE V6 motor offered today that sounded like the Grand National when it rolled off the assembly line. Those cars, at least sounded like they had a pair when you drove them. And yes, I've driven several..

Additionally, pretty much every car today, to include the V8's, are designed to make them super quiet. Have you ever looked at all the baffling and noise reduction they put on the Camaros? I dropped 40lbs of mufflers off my car. The intake under my hood could be used to snorkel a Jeep...its ridiculous.

And yet, you agree that there is room for a twin turbo V6...:doh:

I never once specified the horsepower range or the size of the V6, but yes, it very does make sense and there is very much room for it. With the rumored LT1 coming to the SS, you can figure the output will be around the 470-480hp range. Even if it only jumps to say 450-460hp, thats still a solid jump. That almost guarantees the Stingray will be re-tooled and jumped over 500hp.

So now you have a twin-turbo V6 that can fit in the 370-380hp range no problem. You can of course continue to offer the base V6 with 323hp.

And considering GM has the 400hp TTV6 for the CTSV....its pretty easy to simply cut the boost or de-tune it to make it work.

And for the record, I'm not against a V6 powered muscle car. The GN and GNX are my 2nd favorite muscle car behind the Camaro. They were bad ass cars and while many will say they aren't muscle cars, they were in fact the very definition of them.

However, the Camaro was made famous by being a V8 in a small car. It is what pretty much lured a vast majority of it's fans to the car. Does this mean a V6 can't be a muscle car? Of course not, it's still a Camaro and it's still capable of being made fast.

V8 or bust

That said I would happily own the twin turbo V6 ATS-V