Death of the New Z28 Camaro
 

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:cry: :( :cry: :( :cry:


http://www.superchevy.com/features/c...ion/index.html

unless you hear it from FBODFATHER, bob lutz or one of the Camaro group dont believe it.

Wow another sky is falling rag article that has no facts to base its self on.....

Hey Guys,

They just shut down the whole Camaro project. No Camaro will even be revealed at Indy this year. even 6 cylinder engines are getting phased out.


:rolleyes:

Well, Camp' is a known Ford-lover (at least former.) He was an author or editor at MM&FF or what ever that Ford mag' was called. Although I enjoyed his many contributions to GMHTP over the last several years, I think this was just something to post to stir the pot. Why would GM not announce it sooner.

Regardless, I'll be e-mailing the address he left, just in case ;D

On another related note: ONLY 5000 cars a year?! WTF?! I can see many crappy dealers taking advantage of that and marking them up crazy...

HAHAHAHA and Elvis came back from Mars.

what you didn't hear he was actually on Io a moon of jupiter

It would just increase the value of the 5th gen Camaros 10 fold if they ended up being that rare.

only sold for one year.


but dont belive it

you know...it bothers me that the execs cut the budget from 25 million to 12 million....

Damn these democrats and tree huggers..i swear we need to take this country back

i will seriously start some major campaign if they kill the camaro over this crap...come on the v6 is getting 27 mpg....and anybody who buys a v8 never cared about mpg's

gm don't buy into the hype start making commercials asking for congress to drill

if gm gets on the ball we will start something

550 hp - check, beefed up IRS - check, 4,000lbs - :rolleyes: Who really buyes a 4,000lb pony car in this day and age? Except for those who want that fat pig of a car GT500 or GT500KR.

its going to be heavy... hate to tell you. maybe not quite 2 tons, but close.

The Challenger is over 4k lbs.

It mentioned they were afraid it would hurt their image in these "green" times. So, just make it E85 compatible and you're done.

Agreed, unless Fbodfather says so, I think we're good. I'll take a guess how this happened: Doubtless there is an executive who hates the Camaro project. There's one in every family, as they say. I'm sure he talks about how the project should be shut down, especially if it doesn't sell so many units. He'll talk about how the Z28 will ruin the General's image and will negate any positive publicity the Volt generates. And he'll talk about this in meetings, and to his staff, and somewhere in there some junior worker, perhaps an intern, misunderstands how much sway this person has, takes their rantings as gospel truth, and whether in panicked desperation or desiring to earn their blogosphere stripes, they become a source to the yellow journalists.

Yes, the Z28 will not help the CAFE effort, and certainly won't impress the green hipsters, but if it keeps a low profile (just like the first gen Z28) it should earn the General a decent buck as a performance cult car.

I resent that, I'm a democrat. :sm0:

Just screwing around. I AM a democrat, but I think this has gone too far. The times, they are a'changin - bigger isn't better anymore. The thing about other countries is that they don't use cars to show off status or image as much as we do, so I guess that's what this is all about. All these green cars just don't look cool or perform cool... speed costs money, I guess.

Either way, I'll take this article with a pinch of salt. I was more scared about the Camaro being killed anyway, since I don't plan on getting a Z28, I'm just going for the SS.

So you being a democrat I'm curious what you think of Obama's insistence that we can double the mileage of cars with parts off the shelf. If he gets elected he'll force the automakers to do just that.

I'm SURE we can do that. All we have to do is eliminate dead weight like Catalytic Converters, Air bags, 5MPH Bumpers, Side Door Beams, Passenger Seatbelt sensors, child locks, etc.

I REALLY hope this doesn't make me sound stupid but... I never listened to that speech, what do you mean? I don't hear ANY of the speeches.

I'm a democrat in the respect that I'm liberal. I'm a liberal person and I support almost anything anybody does - it's their life, do what they want, so that usually translates to being a democrat. I honestly don't take politics that seriously. I look at it more realistically - there's nothing I can do about it, I'm just one person... so why complain? It's a waste of breath, and GOD forbid I set someone off, then I'll waste even more, not to mention I can't stand arguing.

All I know is that until technology is advanced enough for them to suck extraordinary power and awesome sound and torque out of a combustion engine burning something other than gas, green cars will remain bland for the most part, and yes, that is coming from a car lover sensibly so. We may all want a Camaro, but we're still a fanbase, we're not America. The overwhelming majority want a fuel-efficient vehicle which, yes, in the midst of these absurd prices is the smart thing to want. I never said I was doing the right thing when I spent 11K on a 78' Trans Am that I found out had a rusted out gas tank causing it to stall from rust flakes clogging the fuel filter, but it was the car lover in me.

The point I'm trying to reach though, is I just want my damn Camaro and I want to enjoy it for what it is: a fast, fun, awesome-looking machine. Spending a crapload of money for gasoline on your Camaro to me is like buying the most expensive foods and toys for your favorite dog. It's worth it if you love it.

By the way I just want to be clear, I wasn't attempting to attack you for being attached to the CAFE party. I was seriously curious if you agreed with that position (assuming you're for BHO). Being a Republican there are certainly many things in my party platform I don't agree with. The funny thing is, I'm Republican for about the same reason you say you're a Democrat. I've always seen the Left and the Democratic party as telling me what I can and can't drive, what I can and can't believe, etc. I think that makes us both more on the libertarian side than anything. But now we're very :offtopic: . Sorry mods.
:threadjacked:

:word:
- Xanthos

P.S. - I actually do consider myself to be a part of the libertarian party, which means I tend to vote democratic, but I have voted republican before due to certain issues.

I don't like the CAFE standards at all. The only justification I will give them is that they mean well. It's nice to save the world and spend less on gas but man... it's all happening so... fast! (LOL!) I love fast cars and muscle cars... I love that smell of carbon and old vinyl when I go to car shows. I mean... can this all slow down just a bit? Give us some room to breath? :mad0260: This time last year in my neck of the woods, prices were still under $3.00 a gallon.

Oh well. It's the way of the world. All I know is that I got my lemon squisher ready and rarin' to go.

It would be fun to take a poll of the political leanings of Camaro5 members; more detailed than Republican/Conservative vs. Democrat/Liberal. Throw some libertarian, statists, etc in there. But anyway...

Yes, we're a unique breed of people. We'll willing to spend more money on our cars because they're not just transportation, they're also our passion/hobby/whatever you want to call it. Most people spend the minimum to meet their transportation utility needs, reliability, and comfort standards, which is just fine. What I worry about is with all these normal people demanding ultimate economy, so many people forget that people like us still deserve the right and ability to drive the cars that interest us.

I understand the frustration with new regulations, but don't blame the government for forcing car companies to be more conservationist. There is a widespread movement favoring cleaner emissions, and much of that is grassroots. Sure, we aren't hardcore about it here, but we can tolerate a 36-mpg car with a lot of horsepower just as much as we can tolerate a 12-mpg car with a lot of horsepower.

For performance brands, like Chevrolet, the goal for their prominent vehicles is horsepower. Chevrolet tends to be ahead of the curve, but some brands would likely slack in the environmental department. All the government is doing is keeping the market moving toward higher efficiency. This benefits more than hippies. Allow me to explain.

If we can produce high-efficiency, high-horsepower combustion engines, we can use that technology in every sector of production. This benefits everyone by lowering costs of fuel over time since everyone from drivers to production facilities will have to pay less for fuel. CAFE regulations are just giving companies a push in that direction.

We have had technology that has not progressed in efficiency for a long time. As lately as the fourth generation Camaro, the V8 has had mediocre gas mileage that could be better, as proven by the 110-mpg Mustang that someone built. The technology is readily available, but no one seems to be pushing for a high-horsepower, high-efficiency motor from GM, Ford, or Chrysler even though those are America's V8 champions. For most buyers, horsepower, exhaust note, and torque are the top priorities of V8 buyers. If you demanded higher efficiency, maybe it would already be there. All CAFE regulations do is promote these regulations for societal advancement in the technology sector.

cafe standards is just communism and not what our founding fathers intended

let the market decide if a certain type of car should die...we don't need the government telling us or our companies how they should make cars

If people didn't force the company with their buying habits to make this a priority then why is the gov forcing it upon it's people? sounds like big brother to me. I don't know what's best for me so the gov is telling me what is best for me. sorry the gov stepped in where it shouldn't have IMHO.

wow that just happened. two posts that relate closely together at the same time. . .how'd that happen?

I gotta agree. I prefer the market to dictate the decisions companies make, not a government that "knows better than us". With gas prices the way they are, the average car buyer has plenty of motivation to buy more efficient cars, and the manufacturers have more than enough incentive to meet that demand. Honda's lineup hasn't changed since the new CAFE laws were introduced, and they're selling cars faster than they can make them. If the automakers care about sales (which they do) then they'll do their best to have similar lineups to meet that profitable demand. At the same time, they'll recognize the demand from people like me and many other people here. We're willing to pay more for gas/find alternatives for daily commutes in order to have a faster, funner car. CAFE regulations screw us just to accomplish what the free market would otherwise accomplish.

I certainly do not want to jump on the doom sayers band wagon, but, if we dont hear a very quick "bullshit" from fbodfather very soon it would appear this is true. It would not shock me if so. GM is going to be fighting for their life. They cannot afford to build anything they can't sell 100% of without discounting. We love the camaro and many of us want the gaz guzzler, but, are there enough "other" people out there to buy what's left over? GM is going to build what they think they can sell. If they do it right, the camaro could end up turning the company around. As much as we want GM to ignore the realities of todays economy, they are in business to make a profit and wont build something that is going to lose them money. On the other hand, they could make the Z28 an option. After all, it is up to the individual consumer if he/she elects to buy a gas guzzling car. That way GM cannot be accused of feeding the energy crisis. I doubt very seriously if BMW will quit selling their M cars. There are always going to be high performance cars available to buy. It would be a shame if GM did not participate to some extent with the camaro.

Well Ford dealers were taking markups on the GT500 until recently, (if not still taking them) so if GM makes it limited enough it won't hurt CAFE numbers and will be a nice token to dealers and enthusiasts.

speed does cost money.... how fast you wanna go?:thumbsup:

grrrrr...

:threadjacked:

:readthethread:

:paddle:


But if there's nothing else to say about it....the thread can be closed.:rolleyes:

PS, I don't believe it for a second. Frankly, the only execs that I would think have enough pull to "sign the death warrant" are Lutz, Wagoner, or Welburn......none of which could I imagine in 1,000,000 years be classified as "hating the Camaro".:bs:

I agree. Government should be less involved, but I've been playing a lot of devil's advocate recently and I'll continue the trend here with a philosophical breakdown of government.

• Assume that the primary goal of government, according to just about every known Enlightenment thinker, is to fulfill a social contract with citizens.
• Given this assumption, we must also consider that liberal democracies (basically, democracies with elections, changing governments, parties, separate powers for the judiciary, free assembly, and free speech) tend to be socially active since the Great Depression—FDR set a major precedent here.
• Socially active governments seek out the best interests of citizens. This is proven by having such laws as mandatory seat belts, speed limits, safety at work laws, and minimum wage laws. Basically, the government seeks to protect citizens' safety, property, and livelihood.
• Finally, with a pluralist system, as is inherent in all liberal democracies, ideas flow freely. Fears of an ice age brought on by nature are running rampant. This idea flows freely to the government. To make it worse, hippies are screaming about pollution making the coming ice age, a natural phenomenon, more potent that the last one.

In this case, what does the government do? Of course, it must protect citizens to the best of its ability. While usually listening to hippies is not as groovy as they'd like, it might save lives and property in the coming years by preventing the premature melting of ice caps that will lead to extensive flooding, killing millions of people, and destroying billions of dollars of private and public property, if the hippies are right. If the hippies are right, the government must step in to fulfill its social contract with its citizens, and that means protecting property. If the hippies are right, our grandchildren will not forgive the government for not stepping in, and thus may lead to drastic political instability brought on by a combination of low faith in democracy and many natural disasters.

On the flip-side, if the hippies are wrong, we have companies that can produce competitive cars that go 36 miles per gallon. Companies will seek out performance, even in the worst circumstances. That means that Chevy will try to build efficient muscle cars and trucks. Is that so bad?

I'm sure we can all put up with higher efficiency. I'm sure GM will make some breakthroughs. Even if they don't, some dude with an old Mustang gave it 400 horses and tuned it to 110 miles per gallon. Stop worrying about fuel regulations. I promise you, our beloved performance cars will be okay. :w00t:

amen

Remember these words, "Have Faith"!

Dragon, respectfully, I think a CAFE discussion is relavent, because if the Z28 were to be canceled it would be because of CAFE most likely.

But you're dead on correct with the rest of your post, in my opinion. As I said, no one who could single-handedly kill the Camaro would. I'm sure some semi-high level exec would like to, but whoever it is doesn't have that power. As I said in my first post, I'm sure this is just some rumor or misunderstanding passed on by a lower level employee. Still, I wouldn't complain if Fbodfather could come and put us all at ease.

Yes it is.:thumbsup: But not everywhere...that was my point. Put across pretty poorly, I guess.

There is a sad part to this, given what's out there, and the possibilities of action that could be taken...I can at best put this in a wait-and-see category. I wish we could just dismiss it.:(

Democrat, Republican, whatever. I think Principal Skinner said it best when he said "There's no justice like angry mob justice". Power to the people and so forth.

i thought it was "keep the faith"???

Ya' get my point! :paddle:

;)

Articles like this really put me up the wall -- past the pictures -- and on to the ceiling.

The Camaro is not Dead.

(......in my opinion, there are some 'enthusiasts' that hope it does die -- and that confounds me........not to mention giving a dangerous boost to my blood pressure......)

I don't know how these things get life -- but let me assure EVERYONE -- that every car and truck program out there is on the table right now -- and I think I can safely say that this is the case at the other two American manufacturers -- all one has to do is to look at what's happening to new vehicle sales -- coupled with the housing meltdown -- the budget deficit -- the elections -- the Dow Jones Industrials down by a breathtaking amount -- and of course, high energy costs that are forcing the price of everything upward................


Let us take a quick walk down memory lane - shall we?

The year is 1979 -- interest rates are double digit -- energy costs and inflation are spiraling out of control.......people are "upside down" on their loans for pickups and large cars................







.....................and yet Chevrolet somehow sold 282,000 Camaros -- TEN years into a lifecycle.

Yes -- the times are different -- but I'm betting that when people see the production car -- they see the value that the car offers -- and they see the fuel economy -- we'll sell a lot of 'em.


........I said a long time ago "Have Faith" -- and that's what I'm saying once again.

(Edit: I am not saying that Jim didn't get a call -- what I DON'T know is WHO made the call -- if it makes you feel better -- go ahead and write a note as the magazine suggests you do.....)

(have faith, friends!)