Amp Recommendations?
 

I'm looking to power one ten inch sub. The models I'm looking at are the IDQ10V3.D4, ID10D4 V3, or the JBL Powerseries P1024.

The current amp I am looking at, recommended by 2010Sin is the JBL GTO7001, which the lowest I can find is around $216.

My question is, are there amps that are just as good for less money that would work for any of those subs? I don't want to get a crappy sound just to save money, but I'm wondering if there are better deals.

I'm looking at the grand total for the sub, amp, ******** enclosures and budgeting $100 for Steve's harness (hopefully won't be that much, just a guess) and it's kinda steep for me, between 750-850 depending on the sub.

Also, for anyone who is experienced with ID subs, how much difference will I notice between the ID10 and the IDQ10? What are the advantages? Is the IDQ worth the extra $80 or would the ID10 do the job? I guess I just don't know enough about these things to know how much I need to spend to get a good sound.

Thanks a lot guys, I really appreciate all your help.

$216 for that amp is a good deal IMO. Base your amp selection on rms power handling of the sub that u buy. That amp is rated at 700wrms@2ohms, which is plenty of power for a 400wrms subwoofer.

Check out Sound Solutions Audio I think you will be happy and have money left in your pocket.

I could be wrong but I would go the other direction, get an amp that is lower than the rms of the woofer. This way you dont run the risk of overdriving your woofer. Example I have a 1000rms woofer being driven by a 400-500rms amp.
Cheers
K

Yea, ideally u want the amp to match the rms rating of your woofer. I just see having a more powerful amp being benefical in case u wanted to upgrade the sub down the road.

if you buyh a pre built enclosure you will have to use the ID10 not the IDQ... the IDQ is actually an 11" sub. will not fit standard configation prefabs. the IDQ's performance is probably twice that fo the ID10. very transient and acurate. does not have a stamped metal basket to resonate. is "field serviceable" meaning if for any reason the cone/voice coil assembly should go bad it can be replaced with out have to send the sub in. the ID series are good subs, the IDQ is worht every bit of the 80 bucks and more. but again will not fit a traditiolal prefab mounting diameter.

I think for what it sounds like you are trying to accomplish the ID10 will work quite well for you.


Side note... more power from the amp means you will use less of the gain to level match in turn will give you more "headroom" which will equate to better sound quality. (amps does not have to work as hard.)

So is it a big deal to go the route I did? A 400-500 rms amp pushing a 1000 rms woofer?

Cheers
K

Geez, no the harness won't be anything near that high.

We can fit an 11" sub in our large driver's side stealth. Give us the hole dimension and we'll do it. I've never considered any of our boxes pre-fab because they can be tweaked and customized upon request. A JL stealthbox is a pre-fab. Each one is identical to the next and they won't modify the design on an individual basis like we can.

Steve that is excellent to know. Thanks. I will get you some spec for the IDQ10.v3 to have for future reference.

Cant wait to see what you decide to do! :-)

Sounds like I really owe it to myself to spend the money. Which means waiting a little longer :(. Steve, is there an additional charge to get it made to fit the bigger sub? Oh and good to know on the price, I'd just rather budget too much than not enough, you know?

running a low amp to your subs is actually bad for them. you would actually want an amp with more power.

:iono: Every amp on their site is more than the one I'm looking at- they start at $240...

in some ways i think the systems other people mention ask for to much.

i have learned to work with arc,focal, and hertz. all work great in large or small enclosures. also give great sound. never have been so impressed with a single sub that is being pushed with 300watts. sounds better then my fosgate with the 800watts i was running it with. also you want a great amp i would go audison. MAN can you tell the difference in clarity.

Why would a lower amp pushing a higher woofer be bad?
K

It's not. Underpowering a speaker isn't going to do anything, save introduce distortion if you crank the gains to try and achieve output.

In the case of the setup you bought Moriartii, the ICON doesn't need rms power to be impressive. You'll love it with almost 500rms on tap.

I picked up an Alpine MRP-M500 for my single 10" sub install.
About $145 and I've been really happy with it.

YMMV

Thanks Mrray, I hit SSA up and seems I am just fine. So again your recommendation was spot on.
Cheers
K

One other question here. I have the rubber cargo mat installed in my trunk, will the ******** enclosures fit over that? I think it's about a half inch thick if I remember correctly.

Which enclosure are you talking about?
If it is the one that goes acrorss the back in the pass through area (which is what I have) yes and no. Yes it fits but it is a dayam tight squeeze as it gets hung up on the little tree points that hang down for the trim pieces in the package deck. Also the 1/2 ridge on the outside of the matt causes it to sit up funny, it needs a brace to run between the inside of the matt and the box. Finally it is a complete pain to roll the matt back and get to the battery compartment. I plan on precisely cutting my matt to fit in front of the box.

Cheers
K

better amps(w/ higher signal/noise ratio), even w/ lower power rating will out-shine amps that are rated higher power, but w/ lower s/n, along w/ cheaper, inferior guts..you can't always look at just power rating, look @ s/n ratios...

..look into class 'D'(digital) amps that tend to draw less current and won't tax your car electrical system. Since you're using it for subs, clarity isn't an issue w/ these amps.

VV tell me if you can tell the difference between a digital and a class A/B amp that has been set w/ a slope of 80hz on down. Clarity w/ the subs, definitely, but not so w/ amps..discerning listeners might pick it, but most consumers out there want maximum boom for a buck.

s/n applies to amps, sensitivity rating for subs:facepalm:..higher the sensitity for the sub, the fewer amplifier power needed to drive it. Enclosure type(ported/sealed) plays a signifcant role as well.

how do you figure clarity is a non issue for subs? I do not want my subs bass to be muddy or unclear when I am listening to my music. Digital amps are more efficient true.... (more power... less current draw) but this does not mean they are the right choice. some digital amps have a very stale or flat sound to them... no life to the music they reproduce. there are class H amps like the mini's from Arc that will do the job nicely with better sound quality. and small fott print class A/B amps from various companies that will sound even better and still not have a huge draw on your system. they dynamics and and "impact" a non digital amps will provide to your subs is very noticable.

In a daily driving situation, with 99% of ears out there, a s/n ratio around 1% for subs is more then acceptable. Your ears are tuned and will pick out things in music others, like myself, won't. I can hear extreme distortion, but in subs, it's harder to hear then in the high end of things.

I'll also agree that class D is really only more efficient at lower volumes, when you crank things, the D class loses some of it's advantages to the cleaner A/B amps. I've not played with T or H class, so I have no real opinion on those, lol.

Sorry forgot there was more than one. I'm talking about the passenger side amp rack and the drivers side large sub enclosure.

i have also called around talk to techs asking same qustion on how to choose an amp.

i told the tech one day the amp i had and the sub and he mentioned under powering a sub is not good for it. now i am sorry i can not answer this the proper way cause since then i have stuck with maps with more power then my subs. and cause i forgot his reason. but i was told by a few people also.

well here for example. you have a 1000watt amp pushing a 800 watt sub and you have it hooked up to 12guage wire i am talking speaker wire and earth and ground wire. if you can not send the power to the amp you will over heat it cause its trying to hard to pull in the power which will also cause bad sound. so i take it its the same with the sub, it is asking for more power but the amp wont give it so it will struggle and sound like crap and wear out the sub. also could hurt the amp

also another guy posted about the signal to noise ratio. also is another thing i forgot and yes does make a big deal.

Underpowering a speaker is likely to damage the voice coil due to the excess heat created by distortion. This distortion, called clipping, is created when the amp is not able to supply the power demand when the volume is turned up. If you turn the volume up very high without the power to back it up, you'll end up clipping the signal coming out of the amp. The speaker will try to reproduce this clipped signal, and if played under these circumstances for any length of time, the speaker will not last very long.

There is a mis-conception that if you're not giving the speaker as much power as it can handle you won't blow it, but that simply is not the case. The only way to really address this problem is to replace your speaker for one with a lower power rating, and a higher SPL rating, or replace your amp with one that better matches the speaker's power handling capability. An alternative to replacing the equipment is to simply keep your volume turned down!

Make certain that power and ground wiring for the amplifier is sufficient to deliver adequate current to the amp. Proper wire gauge and clean connections are critical for strong performance.

Shevyman-
I think you may be a tad bit off in your reasoning. Now I will preface this by saying I am new to car audio so I am not trying to start an arguement so please dont take it as such.
That being said the reason I believe you are slightly incorrect is, a speaker or sub make no such request or demand so it doesnt care what is being sent to it. I believe the rms rating on a sub or speaker is the continous rating it can handle and maintain cooling and other parameters. Obviously it can go higher for short amount of time for peak but then it begins to heat up which is what causes issues.

At the same time I believe a speaker or sub does need a minimum wattage to get the motor moving since, if I remember correctly, there is a magnet in there and the field excitement is what gets thing going.

Now regarding clipping, I believe that has more to do with your amp versus the speaker or woofer since the clipping causes issues with the sine wave and subsequent output through the amp. Since the signal is clipped the output is not smooth from the amp so the speaker or woofer has to work harder to keep up with the output from the amp which causes heat. This heat is what causes the speaker or woofer to become damaged.

Example, running my car on a dyno, I accelerate smoothly throught the powerband to where I need to be versus accelerating, letting off accelerating letting off accelerating letting off. The latter is going to create more heat even though I am technically doing the same thing.

I hope that makes sense in what I am thinking?

Cheers
K

you know, years ago i blew a couple subs by underpowering them. i blew 2 alpine type s 12's at slightly different times. i had them replaced, and they blew again lol the voicecoils were burnt up

so shevyman, you are spot on in my case.

:iono::iono:

Well I am curious as it would seem if you have the volume turned down you are underpowering the speaker/sub so wouldnt speakers/sub blow all the time? That typically isnt the case sooooo......

Like I say I am new to this so it still seems like voodoo in a box. :D
Cheers
K

A sub will not ask for power. It presents a load to the amp, which is taking DC current, and AC voltage( the music) and creating stepping it up and passing it along to the sub. That is extremely general, and in no way reflects everything going on.

S/N ratio in subwoofers is not at all that important. You will not hear the difference between 0.07% and 1%, and I'll put money on that. In the higher frequency ranges, it becomes more of an issue, as distortion is easier to detect. Anyone who says different is full of shit.



Okay, if clipping will kill a stronger subwoofer, what will it do to a weaker one? Think about what you just typed. If I send 400 clipped watts, about the same power as 800 non clipped watts, to a 100wrms sub, you seriously think it'll kill it? Now send that same 400 clipped watts to a 400wrms sub. That 400wrms sub is now seeing 800 watts, while the amp is clipping. Which sub is more likely to survive?

Clipping will not kill a sub if it is still within it's normal power handling capabilities. Example, a typical 1000wrms sub is capable of 2000rms peak power handling, as a 400wrms sub is capable of 800 peak power handling. So even if you crank the gains, and clip the hell out of an amp, if the sub is of correct power handling and in the right enclosure (which will affect power handling), the sub will live.

In short, the only way clipping can damage a sub is if the clipping surpasses the subwoofers normal power handling. One other side note to clipping is loss of output. Since the amp is byond producing power, it can cause compression issues, and that results in output loss, or no gain.




You are correct, the subs rms rating is what the subwoofer can handle mechanically and thermally, in a free air situation. Enclosure design will affect the performance of the subwoofer by, in essence, changing how effiecient it is. A smaller enclosure can aide in power handling, but requires more power to achieve similar output from a larger enclosure, although the larger one can lessen the amount of power a sub can handle.


I've underdriven and overdriven speakers for years, the only time I've damaged a sub is by overdriving it. With responsible gain setting, neither one is an issue. However, if one hasn't achieved the desired amount of output from their current setup, adding power is the most effective way, to a point, of gaining output. Sensible gain control, it's not a volume knob, is a most for any equipment to last.

So you were overdriving them, causing them to overheat and die. This is user error in just about every case and can be prevented. Also, subs, any speaker, will let you know when you are doing this because they stink. They put off a very strong burnt odor, and if one ignores this, you get what happened to you.

Underpowering them didn't destroy them, other driving them did. Chances are you would have done this with more power as well. Not trying to be an ass, just explaining what I think happened based upon my years of experience doing this work. Overpowering a sub will burn a coil, just like overdriving them will. You exceeded the subs thermal power handling and they bit the dust due to it.

yep, lol it was my first system so almost guaranteed i set the gains wrong.

Just because the volume is down doesnt mean it is underpowering a speaker.. hard to explain to where it makes sense in common terminology.

"underpowering" a speaker is when you peak out an amplifier into clipping when the power isnt sufficient enough to drive the speaker to proper RMS settings... Low volume has nothing to do with underpowering.

well we all experience different things.

i found the second post up on a website as for an answer. i bet if we do more research you can find more answers to your question.

i have experienced speakers going out running the wrong amps, i have amps overload cause the sub asked for more power.

i guess it all comes down to like a few people have said. as long as the amp is putting out the rms that the speaker requires then you should be fine.

what is a good signal to noise ratio do you want it to be higher or lower and do the overally number besides the ratio itself determine anything?

Lol, we've all been there bro!!!:drinking:



Subs, nor speakers, will ask for more power. More then likely you wired up the wrong impedence subs, and attempted to draw more power then the amp was designed to produce.

Subs, in and of themselves, will not, can not, ask for power. They are passive objects, with an electrical motor that relies on a seperate power source to supply voltage to make them move.

when it comes to amps you have 3 choices

ultra audio
arc audio
zapco

i will add also Hertz and audison. audison is more for sq. hertz and arc will give you more power but also sound good. i am running a arc amp and i am happy.

plus it all depends on the setup. if you plan on blasting the music then i would go arc hertz. if you want to enjoy your music at low volumes and have that great crystal clear sound, i would go audison.

Really? Last time I checked there was a crap ton more then that. Some are better performers for far less money.

The beauty of car audio, there really isn't a end all be all brand that can encompass everything. There really is no best of anything in car audio, but there is a lot of really good!

im talking quality here! those 3 companies put out solid amps worth the money and backed up with serious warrenties to prove it... not to mention power a sound of course which -overall is the reason these companies are worth their price tags!

BTW ...made in the USA! Not just some "import" amp branded with a logo like most companies that "out-sourse" their amp line to cut cost and quailty for those looking to buy cheaper amp.

any installer worth his OHMS will tell you the same!

my personal favor is

ultra audio
ultrasubs.com