Not about the Camaro abuse thread so much
 

Could a moderator explain which rules to the forum was broke to have the 'Camaro abuse' thread and the follow on thread of 'why the thread deleted' were closed for comments. As a service member I bite my tonge as not to have my comments misrepresented as a statment from my service. I do not loose any sleep over this because I know that we as service members are defending the first amendment right of the nation not to be censored even when I personnally don't agree with it.



Hyperlink to the original Abused Camaro Thread: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=254111

Forum rules don't have anything to do with the 1st amendment. I hate these threads. JS

Thanks for your service though!

habunow1, since I didn't read or see either thread you mentioned, but if you hadn't seen or read these, you might be able to see which rule was broken...... THE C5 RULES

Yep. Unfortunately, this is the case.

Of course, what's the point in having a first amendment if you can't actually excercise it?

I won't even get started on how over-censored this forum is. :banned::bs:

I agree with you.

Unfortunately, since we don't own it, moderate it or pay to keep it going, we can't make the rules, and if we don't like the rules-- we can just go elsewhere. Which some people have. Personally, I'll stick it out with C5 because the good outweighs the bad for me, most of the time :D

Then what was the reason? Was it libable by members or can you not say anything questioning the quaility of sponsors/dealer of products? I would believe that is one of the reasons members would join to become more informed of these things.

Google it. This is blowing up.

We may have to go to other sources to keep updated, and if that's what this forum is about, that's sad.

Vendors and members alike here have a BUNCH of my money. :D

And, IBTL.

Read the rules before posting and could not find which one was violated.

bottom line, the forum is privately owned and operated so the only rules that matter are their rules.

A forum is not a democracy, it is not a newspaper, or media broadcast, it is a blog where any Tom, Dick or Harry can post opinions, that usually are not based in fact, as such the moderators and administrators must do what they feel is in the best interest of their BUSINESS..

Yes this is a business, it is here to make someone money, so whether we like it or not they will censor, delete, move, moderate, and close any thread that doesn't line up with their business plan and rules.

--

Not siding with the moderators, (as I don't agree with the disapearing thread mentality either), just pointing out the truth of things.

I agree with the money part but sometime you have to standup for what is right. Do you really want sponsors to cheat your members and does that not make you just as bad as them.

At least they could post a reason when they close a thread.

If they delete/close this thats fine but would you think it bad business to start practices which pisses off your target market. We all have the freedom to go other places and that is what happens when they are not happy. It would be just as easy to explain to everyone and the subject would be close wether we agreed or not.

I can't tell you the specific reason the original "camaro abuse" thread was closed as I wasn't the one to close it. It's not that the thread was breaking a rule per say but one of the Mods/Admins found that it was best the thread be locked, if only the time being.

Heck this could be my fault for getting "too involved" with the issue and whatnot. So that's my bad.

If you guys have any specific questions or anything regarding the thread/issue feel free to PM me. I'm kinda busy today so I may not get back to you right away, but I will respond to you before tonight.

OH and side bar: everyone should check out Best Chevrolet's FB page. It's worth a few laughs.

Thanks for the insight. That's ALL folks are asking for, an explanation as to why the mysterious moderator playing Big Brother keeps locking threads.

Word of mouth is what keep my wifes busness busy. The same thought applies here because whenever I see a 5th gen I ask them if they have gone on this forum, tell them to look me up and our meet site and tell them how if you want to know it about a 5th gen they will have it on there. Makes me start to question whether I am doing the right thing by saying that.

Stieger thanks for the insite.

I can somewhat understand people being upset with moderators closing threads with no explanation but the truth is most of the ones that get closed end up heading south quickly otherwise. Online forums with arguements quickly become pissing contests with everyone flexing their "internet muscles".

I'd much rather a forum be over moderated than under moderated. At least they care about the quality of people and information that gets to remain on the site.

You gotta look at both sides here.

Yes they do. Because sponsors = money. And money = business.

Trust me, they would rather have 100 ripped off members than lose 1 single sponsor's cash flow.

Ever notice threads about issues with Camaros are moved almost immediately, but useless threads are left up for WEEKS?

And any thread that says "X company took my money and makes a crap product!" somehow gets wiped off the face of the Earth?

As Belle said, that's the way this place is run so if we don't like it, we will have to leave. But I, for one, disagree with it entirely. Now watch. Just saying THAT will probably get me banned. :facepalm::thumbdown:

I think we deserve an explanation.

We have supported this website for years. Supported both the vendors and owners of the website via buying stuff off this website as well as using it and going to events like Camarofest.

Now one of our own is in a situation that needs our support through social media and someone here on Camaro5 are denying us the right to help him or even discuss what has happened to him. This did not happen to a Mustang or Challenger owner, it happened to a Camaro owner. Is this not Camaro5.com? Our home on the web?

I could understand if the thread had gotten out of hand but it was, and still is, mostly civil and we had a Mod keeping an eye on us. (Thanks Stieger, you get it) Let us continue to discuss this in an adult manner like we have been because this is in the national spotlight and closing this while the nation is looking at us is really foolish. The next headline will read, "Camaro5 won't let it's members discuss bad manners by dealership of one of it's member's!". How is that going to look?

T.

Could the mod who moved the thread chime in and maybe reopen the orginal thread with the what ever was wrong edited. "Perception is reality"

If this is a community, a quick "why it was closed" should be posted.

Site is afraid of getting sued and doesn't want involved with someone else's fight. It's as plain as the nose on your face. I'm no lawyer so I don't really know if they could be sued anyway. If it was my site, I would say post away in this situation. The op has the facts. I don't how C5 could be affected.

Although, C5 does get accused of being in bed with GM. It's things likw closing threads like those in question that make one wonder if there isn't something to that. In that case, I can see why it got closed.

Doesn't matter anyway. It's a privately owned site and they don't owe anyone a reason for doing what they do. Like they always say themselves, If you don't like don't let the door hit you in the butt when you leave.

I can guarantee this will go away quietly because in most astates it is "ILLEGAL" to record someone without their knowledge. If the people in question want to get pissy (even though they were in the wrong) they can go after the OP. He better get what he can before the dealer gets a lawyer. And I can tell you once you threaten most dealer wit hlega laction ALL bets are off and they are going to ask you to leave.

What was the original thread about?

It sounds like it was someone complaining about a product? If that's the case, there's a "vendor review" section specifically for that sort of thing.

And like has been said, the first amendment only protects you from being censored by the government. It does not protect your internet post from being censored by the host or owner of that site ;)

Ever hear of people secretly recording babysitters? Nanny cams, they call them. Not to mention when a spouse is secretly recorded hiring a hitman to knock off their spouse. It's a legal gray area depending on the crime that was recorded. Fraud is probably serious enough.

Back to the purpose of this forum. I thought it was a Camaro forum. Is it really an advertising board with some forum sections thrown in?

Wow. That light just went on.

It was either the OP who requested it closed because a lawyer recommended not saying anything to anyone until completion of a lawsuit or it was this site's owners. The owners may have some kind of relationship with GM as it has been hinted at. Whether this relationship is financially driven or information-ally driven, it wouldn't matter. If any type of relationship exists, a video and thread making GM/Dealerships look terrible could do nothing but hurt the established relationship between GM and C5.

This relationship has negative and positive attributes. It means this site has a degree of damage control and censorship to it. The positive attribute is that GM sees this site as a marketing and business opportunity. We get special information and GM participation in events and ultimately new product development.

Take it as you want but the best positive is that we can reflect on what we like and dislike about our cars as well as reflect on what we would want in a future Camaro/GM car.

In essence, this site gives you a voice that GM would not have otherwise heard of. If we have to let them save face and maintain a positive business image in the process, then it really is not a bad trade off.

Hope that answers your question.

Exactly and from what I understand that rule does not apply to private property. If you enter the boundary of my private property I can record whatever I want, as well as in the public space. My car is my private property and thus I have the right to record whatever happens in the cabin.

I think the law applies when you are on someone else private property that does not have an implied public use. Implied public use meaning you could record in a mall or a supermarket. So I can't go walk into your home and start recording you unless you say it is okay. If I record in your home without your permission, then it could be illegal.

Ultimately legality with audio/video recording is whether you are on your own or another person's private property and whether you have permission. Permission to record is not implied and must be confirmed.

The orginal post is easy to find on the internet but the question here was just posed to question what is best practices on this matter. What responsibility does Camaro 5 have to the members and other sponsers to be honest even if it is not always what a sponsor wants to hear. 1st admendment or censorship by fourms aside, would a sponsor/dealer of products not want the the chance to answer bad press instead of having the thread removed/closed. Once it is out there you can not make it disappear just by closing the post.

I am curious what the people selling on this site thinks.

Private property only comes into play in video and photgraphy, not audio recordings

I like this site, but the sensorship is out of control:thumbdown:! Makes you question where you live:facepalm:? If they dont agree with you in the sligtest way they will threaten to Ban you:yikes:. Oh Oh this could be my last post!:confused0068:

You could have not said it better Brother!:thumbsup::thumbup:

They interped the rules as they see fit! Remeber Camaro5 is an Empire not a Democracy!

Sorry but that's the most messed up thing I've ever seen, and that thread DESERVED to stay open. I see no reason for it to be closed, legal or otherwise. Plus, that video has gone viral and the story is being reported from gminsidenews to jalopnik. Why close it?

This is why these posts get so far out of control is folks lose sight of the original issue.

It is NOT about the legality of the recording. It is NOT about GM looking bad since this is clearly about the Dealership, Best Chevrolet, and they are separate business entity.

It is about a fellow Camaro5 member who had been wronged and our inability to express our support to/for him.

Those bashing GM are not getting it. Those questioning the legalities of the recording are not getting it. IMHO! This is about showing support for a member in his time of need. A time when social media could be his greatest ally.

If Camaro5 does not want to support their members as we have supported them, the least they could do is let us know why they have chosen to turn their back on their community.

T.

How can a recording catching someone red handed not be Fact?????? If they support the Camaro crowd you think they would stand behind them a little.

It is not elegal to record someone if they are commiting a crime, which these people obiously did!

what crime did they commit? reckless driving?

I'm not on their side! I think they should be fired in a heart beat but recording without their consent and posting it on here is likely one of the reasons this is gone

:word:

I expect we will not get a clear answer...because I expect Cam5 is, indeed, in bed with GM.

Someone said that a positive of that is the forum gives you a voice GM would have otherwise not heard. Well, not if that voice is quickly silenced.

The member who posted up the original thread had a legitimate issue with a GM dealer. The ONLY reason Cam5 mods would close said thread would be their contractual obligation to silence any negative postings and/or comments about GM as quickly and efficiently as possible.

If this were not the case, why not let people post? With the national attention this is getting, it could catapult the site into the national spotlight with news media potentially quoting members of the forum in support of the member in question. But NO. Rather than do the right thing, the mods have decided to brush this member's issues under the rug and turn the other cheek.

It's sickening to say the least because we are still expected to support this site, but the site refuses to do the same for us.

I've been saying for a long time that the censorship here is running absolutely rampant, but this is, by far, the biggest act of :bs: I've seen since I've been on here.

Either bring back the original, legitimate thread, and get off GM's nuts, or put a disclaimer up saying "Welcome to Camaro5....sponsored by GM. No negative comments/threads about GM or GM dealerships will be tolerated."

I'm disappointed..and more than a little :mad0260:. :paddle::mad0233: