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zebra 08-14-2012 10:26 PM

kinda like Randy last year - i'll definitely need a set of wheels/tires to win that one :scared0016: no doubt!

SSE 4 2SS 08-14-2012 10:26 PM

My fat pig against your sleek svelte vette...:iono::bellyroll:
Quote:

Originally Posted by zebra (Post 5443488)
umm...


uh...


hang on a sec. i need to go check on something...

















:bolt:


zebra 08-14-2012 10:29 PM

:laugh: sure, why not? it's all fun & games anyway, right... at least til somebody blows a motor?

right Kyle?

SSE 4 2SS 08-14-2012 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zebra (Post 5443512)
:laugh: sure, why not? it's all fun & games anyway, right... at least til somebody blows a motor?

right Kyle?

OUCH........

The Stig 08-14-2012 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zebra (Post 5443512)
:laugh: sure, why not? it's all fun & games anyway, right... at least til somebody blows a motor?

right Kyle?

Too soon dude, too soon

zebra 08-14-2012 11:14 PM

in all fairness, i was talking about the first one from 2 years ago

TAG UR IT 08-15-2012 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlee (Post 5441393)
:wave:

They are one the way!
Quote:

Originally Posted by PQ (Post 5442953)
:) I already have some but I need to replace them. I'll log on and get em. :chevy:

:bs:

;)
Quote:

Originally Posted by GTAHVIT (Post 5443074)
:D Red, they even match my calipers. :laugh:

hey..we got those too..:D
Quote:

Originally Posted by SSE 4 2SS (Post 5443478)
I'll run you for grins and giggles... :D

I can already hear the giggling...lol
Quote:

Originally Posted by zebra (Post 5443750)
in all fairness, i was talking about the first one from 2 years ago

Double OUCH!

GTAHVIT 08-15-2012 02:10 PM

1 Attachment(s)
I know there are a ton of Clutch Reservoir DIY's out there.

But here's mine. :D

garcmol 08-15-2012 02:14 PM

:facepalm: Now I really feel retarded.

JusticePete 08-15-2012 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTAHVIT (Post 5446410)
I know there are a ton of Clutch Reservoir DIY's out there.

But here's mine. :D

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/attach...1&d=1345054215

Nicely done Grasshopper.

With purity of heart a blind man can see. To achieve perfection you must search both Heaven and Earth. An empty hole is unknown in value until you fill it. Free yourself from the the bonds of the Earth to find perfection for your Clutch Reservoir installation.

http://images.zap2it.com/images/tv-E...eye-luke-1.jpg

perfection

GTAHVIT 08-15-2012 02:34 PM

wow... now if I can just snatch that damn pebble from your hand... I'll be good to go...


:laugh:

Quote:

Originally Posted by garcmol (Post 5446423)
:facepalm: Now I really feel retarded.

LOL The guys helping me with my brakes did it while I was doing something else...

For some reason looking at the new reservoir installed made a lot more sense than just holding it in my hand.

:laugh:

Redemption 08-15-2012 03:01 PM

Good god man, what did you do to the top of that coilover? That nut is decimated!

righty-tighty, lefty-loosey


Lololol

JusticePete 08-15-2012 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTAHVIT (Post 5446515)
wow... now if I can just snatch that damn pebble from your hand... I'll be good to go...


:laugh:

The answer is written to those who look closely.

600hp-lpe 08-15-2012 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redemption (Post 5446632)
Good god man, what did you do to the top of that coilover? That nut is decimated!

righty-tighty, lefty-loosey


Lololol

actually it looks like a little bit of rust on the nut.. the shape is intact if you look closely.

Chris must be hanging out at the beach in the salt spray...

garcmol 08-15-2012 03:52 PM

That nuts been off and on probably 20 times (easily). The nut in the picture that is.

GTAHVIT 08-15-2012 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redemption (Post 5446632)
Good god man, what did you do to the top of that coilover? That nut is decimated!

righty-tighty, lefty-loosey


Lololol

OH man... that nut was a B!TC# to get on... I had to use the impact wrench to loosen the threads on the stock struts before I could get it on the Pedders coilovers with hand tools.

Both of them were way tight... IIRC they are a lock nut so they get tighter the further down you go....

Quote:

Originally Posted by JusticePete (Post 5446816)
The answer is written to those who look closely.

... something to strive for. ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by 600hp-lpe (Post 5446912)
actually it looks like a little bit of rust on the nut.. the shape is intact if you look closely.

Chris must be hanging out at the beach in the salt spray...

Were you staking me this weekend. :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by garcmol (Post 5446931)
That nuts been off and on probably 20 times (easily). The nut in the picture that is.

:word: see above.

zebra 08-15-2012 04:45 PM

alright, i'm lost now.
why'd you need a new clutch reservoir? :iono:

600hp-lpe 08-15-2012 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTAHVIT (Post 5447224)
OH man... that nut was a B!TC# to get on... I had to use the impact wrench to loosen the threads on the stock struts before I could get it on the Pedders coilovers with hand tools.

Both of them were way tight... IIRC they are a lock nut so they get tighter the further down you go....



... something to strive for. ;)



Were you staking me this weekend. :D



:werd: see above.

Chris.. You been drinking today? you are spelling funny...:iono:
... or are you sending subliminal messages to someone? LOL


No STALKING.. just trying to be nice, for once, and stand up for you...
Look what it got me... labeled as a staker... LOL:sm0:

garcmol 08-15-2012 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zebra (Post 5447270)
alright, i'm lost now.
why'd you need a new clutch reservoir? :iono:

Because there isn't a separate resevoir. It shares the brake fluid resevoir.

GTAHVIT 08-15-2012 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zebra (Post 5447270)
alright, i'm lost now.
why'd you need a new clutch reservoir? :iono:

see below Lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by 600hp-lpe (Post 5447278)
Chris.. You been drinking today? you are spelling funny...:iono:
... or are you sending subliminal messages to someone? LOL


No STALKING.. just trying to be nice, for once, and stand up for you...
Look what it got me... labeled as a staker... LOL:sm0:

fixed... LOL

Quote:

Originally Posted by garcmol (Post 5447280)
Because there isn't a separate resevoir. It shares the brake fluid resevoir.

This! we get some nasty clutch dust contamination from the shared reservoir.

Separating it keeps the brake fluid... cleaner...

600hp-lpe 08-15-2012 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garcmol (Post 5447280)
Because there isn't a separate resevoir. It shares the brake fluid resevoir.

Yes you want a separate clutch fluid reservoir. you don't want contaminants in the brake system.

And if you drive a standard transmission, the clutch fluid picks up a whole lot of clutch particle dust from the slave cylander. The fluid needs to be changed out occasionally.

I used to use a baby's snot sucker - looks like this, to suck up the old fluid and then add fresh fluid in the clutch reservoir.http://www.nosesucker.com/wp-content..._5210391_o.jpg

zebra 08-15-2012 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garcmol (Post 5447280)
Because there isn't a separate resevoir. It shares the brake fluid resevoir.

http://i.chzbgr.com/completestore/20...9957096726.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by 600hp-lpe (Post 5447314)
Yes you want a separate clutch fluid reservoir. you don't want contaminants in the brake system.

And if you drive a standard transmission, the clutch fluid picks up a whole lot of clutch particle dust from the slave cylander. The fluid needs to be changed out occasionally.

I used to use a baby's snot sucker - looks like this, to suck up the old fluid and then add fresh fluid in the clutch reservoir.

i understand why you want separate reservoirs & the whole clutch dust in the fluid & all...
but you're telling me that y'all's cars have a combined clutch & brake reservoir?! :bonk:
that just seems like a ridiculous lack of engineering right there :facepalm:

and for mine, i have a big kitchen syringe with the tip of the needle cut off flat :thumbsup: i'm guessing y'all typically just do the ranger method do clean your fluid?

Redemption 08-15-2012 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTAHVIT (Post 5447224)
OH man... that nut was a B!TC# to get on... I had to use the impact wrench to loosen the threads on the stock struts before I could get it on the Pedders coilovers with hand tools.

Both of them were way tight... IIRC they are a lock nut so they get tighter the further down you go....



... something to strive for. ;)



Were you staking me this weekend. :D



:word: see above.

Lololol. Had to say it, just cause mine look about the same. I did the same thing with my stock strut, run that damn nut on and off a million times so it would get tight on the xa's. Pete and his extreme tolerances.... ;-)

600hp-lpe 08-15-2012 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zebra (Post 5447854)

i understand why you want separate reservoirs & the whole clutch dust in the fluid & all...
but you're telling me that y'all's cars have a combined clutch & brake reservoir?! :bonk:
that just seems like a ridiculous lack of engineering right there :facepalm:

and for mine, i have a big kitchen syringe with the tip of the needle cut off flat :thumbsup: i'm guessing y'all typically just do the ranger method do clean your fluid?

Yeah.. GM saved... what.. about $1.00 in their build cost combining the reservoirs? Or.. they wanted to make more money selling reservoirs over the parts counter...

most do the ranger method.

I pity the people who havn't seperated the reservoir's and drive their cars normal.. not knowing that that crap is gonna get into everything Clutch and brake, at some time. That's gonna be an expensive fix if you left it for a few years of normal driving and didn't know about it..

Some, like me added the Tick Performance SS bleed line. I can flush the clutch fluid in under 5 minutes through the entire system, not just the reservoir. I do it after every race.

I already replaced the fluid from the Camaro fest.. and have my ABS working again now, too.:D

SSE 4 2SS 08-15-2012 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 600hp-lpe (Post 5448225)
Yeah.. GM saved... what.. about $1.00 in their build cost combining the reservoirs? Or.. they wanted to make more money selling reservoirs over the parts counter...

most do the ranger method.

I pity the people who havn't seperated the reservoir's and drive their cars normal.. not knowing that that crap is gonna get into everything Clutch and brake, at some time. That's gonna be an expensive fix if you left it for a few years of normal driving and didn't know about it..

Some, like me added the Tick Performance SS bleed line. I can flush the clutch fluid in under 5 minutes through the entire system, not just the reservoir. I do it after every race.

I already replaced the fluid from the Camaro fest.. and have my ABS working again now, too.:D

I'm still on a common reservoir... But I also have the bleeder line and frequently flush the lines... All clean and good... So far... A clutch res will not fit there on my car... Boost controller solenoids are mounted there...

garcmol 08-15-2012 09:01 PM

Well I track my car so I need to look into this.

Redemption 08-15-2012 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 600hp-lpe (Post 5448225)

Some, like me added the Tick Performance SS bleed line.

Wow, thanks for posting. Was just racking my brain this morning, trying to remember who made it. :thumbsup:

JusticePete 08-15-2012 09:17 PM

The separate clutch reservoir does keep your fluid cleaner. It does nothing to enhance performance and according to my experts the discoloration nof the fluid does not degrade performance.

zebra 08-15-2012 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JusticePete (Post 5448648)
The separate clutch reservoir does keep your fluid cleaner. It does nothing to enhance performance and according to my experts the discoloration nof the fluid does not degrade performance.

well my non-expertise begs to differ. after i learned about the ranger method about a year & a half ago, i decided to test it out. i went out in my truck, which has the standard New Venture NV3500 5 speed transmission - notorious for having a horrible time trying to do a high-rpm 2-3 shift after launching in 1st - much like the f-body T56, and partially for the same reason.

test 1: went out as it sat, drove around a little to warm the truck up & then pulled from a dig. ran up to about 5500 in 2nd, and (as usual) had to double-clutch to successfully get it in 3rd. nothing new.

variable: changed the fluid in the clutch reservoir using the ranger method til everything stayed clear when i pumped the pedal. mind you, this was the first time i'd changed the fluid since i bought it in '06 and put a new clutch in (and even then, it wasn't a real flush - just a top-off).

test 2: drove out to the same place as before & from a dig, i launched, revved, and slammed second. now for the moment of truth... wound it up to about 5500 and BAM!!!! 3rd went right in. amazed & thinking it was a fluke, i turned around & did it again - this time up to 6000. once again, shifted right in with one pedal push. even on a third kicks-and-giggles run, i got the same single-pedal-effort results.

conclusion: i believe the clean fluid does, in fact, make a difference. i believe it's partly due to the design of my particular system. much like the 4th gen T56 clutch line from the master to the slave, the trucks also have a restriction in the hydraulic line. my year's system ain't just a little restrictor inside the end that can be drilled out; half of it's braided line that then molds to a narrower piece of hard plastic flex line. my belief is that the clutch dust getting in the fluid gives it a higher viscosity & therefore can't flow quite fast enough to meet the demand of refilling the reservoir in time to shift to 3rd - thus requiring another pump of the pedal to get enough fluid inside the slave to fully disengage the plate. the clean fluid, however, seemed to be able to do this much better.

outcome: when i got home, i rangered out my car's fluid as well.

note: the fluid starts getting dark after a few drives anyway, and at low RPMs with slower/smoother shifts, it don't really matter that much. but it would definitely help when racing.

my next steps: get speed bleeders on both vehicles next time i put clutches in.

Mr Twisty 08-16-2012 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 600hp-lpe (Post 5446912)
actually it looks like a little bit of rust on the nut.. the shape is intact if you look closely.

Chris must be hanging out at the beach in the salt spray...

It's okay, rusty nuts happen occasionally as we get older.... don't worry about it Chris, I'm sure they still work just fine :thumbup:

JusticePete 08-16-2012 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zebra (Post 5449261)
well my non-expertise begs to differ. after i learned about the ranger method about a year & a half ago, i decided to test it out. i went out in my truck, which has the standard New Venture NV3500 5 speed transmission - notorious for having a horrible time trying to do a high-rpm 2-3 shift after launching in 1st - much like the f-body T56, and partially for the same reason.

test 1: went out as it sat, drove around a little to warm the truck up & then pulled from a dig. ran up to about 5500 in 2nd, and (as usual) had to double-clutch to successfully get it in 3rd. nothing new.

variable: changed the fluid in the clutch reservoir using the ranger method til everything stayed clear when i pumped the pedal. mind you, this was the first time i'd changed the fluid since i bought it in '06 and put a new clutch in (and even then, it wasn't a real flush - just a top-off).

test 2: drove out to the same place as before & from a dig, i launched, revved, and slammed second. now for the moment of truth... wound it up to about 5500 and BAM!!!! 3rd went right in. amazed & thinking it was a fluke, i turned around & did it again - this time up to 6000. once again, shifted right in with one pedal push. even on a third kicks-and-giggles run, i got the same single-pedal-effort results.

conclusion: i believe the clean fluid does, in fact, make a difference. i believe it's partly due to the design of my particular system. much like the 4th gen T56 clutch line from the master to the slave, the trucks also have a restriction in the hydraulic line. my year's system ain't just a little restrictor inside the end that can be drilled out; half of it's braided line that then molds to a narrower piece of hard plastic flex line. my belief is that the clutch dust getting in the fluid gives it a higher viscosity & therefore can't flow quite fast enough to meet the demand of refilling the reservoir in time to shift to 3rd - thus requiring another pump of the pedal to get enough fluid inside the slave to fully disengage the plate. the clean fluid, however, seemed to be able to do this much better.

outcome: when i got home, i rangered out my car's fluid as well.

note: the fluid starts getting dark after a few drives anyway, and at low RPMs with slower/smoother shifts, it don't really matter that much. but it would definitely help when racing.

my next steps: get speed bleeders on both vehicles next time i put clutches in.

Most of the discoloration is from the hoses. Your variation if performance was most likely due to the fresh fluid for the first time in years.

It isn't the color of the fluid. It is the condition of fluid. Moisture content, boiled fluid, low temperature fluid, etc...

I don't portend to be a expert in the field of brake and clutch hydraulics, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn three weeks ago :D All kidding aside, I am fortunate to have access to some of the best of the best in the industry. When they talk I listen, unless I don't like their answer :bellyroll:

600hp-lpe 08-16-2012 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JusticePete (Post 5451463)
Most of the discoloration is from the hoses. Your variation if performance was most likely due to the fresh fluid for the first time in years.

It isn't the color of the fluid. It is the condition of fluid. Moisture content, boiled fluid, low temperature fluid, etc...

I don't portend to be a expert in the field of brake and clutch hydraulics, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn three weeks ago :D All kidding aside, I am fortunate to have access to some of the best of the best in the industry. When they talk I listen, unless I don't like their answer :bellyroll:

Hmm... Then I guess time will tell.. As all my clutch lines are now Stainless Steel with Teflon/PTFE inside.. so there should be no discoloration... from the hoses, anyway.:)

As to Pete sleeping at a Holiday Inn.. I hope it was OK... I havn't stayed at a H. Inn in a Long time.. and I still remember the last one there, about 8+ yrs ago. Easy to remember when the air conditioner leaks and leaves 1" of water on the floor overnight.. Kind of a knee jerk wake up call in the middle of the night's bathroom run... WTF??? Oh Damn...!!!

TAG UR IT 08-17-2012 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JusticePete (Post 5451463)

It isn't the color of the fluid. It is the condition of fluid. Moisture content, boiled fluid, low temperature fluid, etc...

Ask me how I know about this...

hence my current SS brake lines and DOT4 Super Blue brake fluid.

83 mph into a turn at Harris Hills with no brakes. :yikes:

I boiled my brake fluid at the end of the 4th track session. 4 sessions at 20min per session. About 50 min between my sessions. Once the brake fluid gets that hot, you MUST change it out. I know you know this...just saying in general.


yeah...that was some scary sh!t.

GTAHVIT 08-17-2012 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAG UR IT (Post 5455290)
Ask me how I know about this...

hence my current SS brake lines and DOT4 Super Blue brake fluid.

83 mph into a turn at Harris Hills with no brakes. :yikes:

I boiled my brake fluid at the end of the 4th track session. 4 sessions at 20min per session. About 50 min between my sessions. Once the brake fluid gets that hot, you MUST change it out. I know you know this...just saying in general.


yeah...that was some scary sh!t.

I got some fluid that will fix that "little" problem :D

The Stig 08-17-2012 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JusticePete (Post 5451463)
Most of the discoloration is from the hoses. Your variation if performance was most likely due to the fresh fluid for the first time in years.

It isn't the color of the fluid. It is the condition of fluid. Moisture content, boiled fluid, low temperature fluid, etc...

I don't portend to be a expert in the field of brake and clutch hydraulics, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn three weeks ago :D All kidding aside, I am fortunate to have access to some of the best of the best in the industry. When they talk I listen, unless I don't like their answer :bellyroll:

Moisture ruins brake fluid - literally. I use a lot of the Ranger's methods in my general maintenance/upkeep, but one thing that I follow to a T is that I always use a brand new bottle when swapping fluid. Once you open the bottle it's all downhill from there.

GTAHVIT 08-17-2012 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stieger (Post 5456319)
Moisture ruins brake fluid - literally. I use a lot of the Ranger's methods in my general maintenance/upkeep, but one thing that I follow to a T is that I always use a brand new bottle when swapping fluid. Once you open the bottle it's all downhill from there.

When doing a fluid flush that makes sense. But the brake fluid in the system can't help be be exposed to the elements. The reservoir itself isn't air tight..

When adding to the reservoir, as long as the fluid isn't months old it shouldn't make a difference.

As far as preserving the fluid you have in the bottle, I aggree, Don't open it unitl you plan to use it. And at $70 for the SRF I may put the leftover fluid in a vacuum sealed container. :laugh:

garcmol 08-17-2012 10:59 AM

hygroscopic brake fluid is made to absord moisture. That's how the "wet" boiling point is determined, which is much lower than the dry. 3, 4, 5.1

If you put hypophobic brake fluid (DOT 5 does not absorb moisture) it will keep a higher boiling point over it's life, but moisture and the fluid will be separate. Not good.

Moisture is going to happen just with hot engines and cool outside temps. Condensation you can't beat. What happened to Doug is he met and surpassed that wet boiling temp and the fluid was literally vaporized. That vapor is compressed which won't allow the flow of hydraulic fluids.

Charts usually show a 3.7% value of moisture to achieve a "wet" boiling temp. The more we drive with the same fluid in there, the more moisture it's going to absorb and that value will get larger while your boiling point keeps decreasing.

So, moisture is going to happen period. You want it to be absorbed in the fluid, you just want to change it more often if you track your car.

GTAHVIT 08-17-2012 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garcmol (Post 5456402)
hygroscopic brake fluid is made to absord moisture. That's how the "wet" boiling point is determined, which is much lower than the dry. 3, 4, 5.1

If you put hypophobic brake fluid (DOT 5 does not absorb moisture) it will keep a higher boiling point over it's life, but moisture and the fluid will be separate. Not good.

Moisture is going to happen just with hot engines and cool outside temps. Condensation you can't beat. What happened to Doug is he met and surpassed that wet boiling temp and the fluid was literally vaporized. That vapor is compressed which won't allow the flow of hydraulic fluids.

Charts usually show a 3.7% value of moisture to achieve a "wet" boiling temp. The more we drive with the same fluid in there, the more moisture it's going to absorb and that value will get larger while your boiling point keeps decreasing.

So, moisture is going to happen period. You want it to be absorbed in the fluid, you just want to change it more often if you track your car.

:D

Hence why the SRF stuff is so guuuder :laugh:

Quote:

Castrol SRF Brake Fluid is a DOT 4 brake fluid suitable for all disc and drum brake systems except those prescribed for mineral oil. Castrol SRF is a high-performance product. Castrol SRF Brake Fluid's unique silicon ester technology absorbs less water than conventional glycol ether fluids and prevents the fluid's high temperature performance from deteriorating. Its wet boiling point of 270°C (518°F) is vastly superior to the minimum requirement of 155°C demanded by the current US DOT 4 specification. Its ability to withstand temperatures in excess of 300°C and superior resistance to the effects of absorbed water have established Castrol SRF Brake Fluid as the world's premier fluid for the hydraulic brakes used in all forms of motorsport and racing. 1 Liter Bottle.

garcmol 08-17-2012 02:12 PM

Yup. That and you gots some big brakes.

zebra 08-17-2012 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JusticePete (Post 5451463)
Most of the discoloration is from the hoses. Your variation if performance was most likely due to the fresh fluid for the first time in years.
...

yeah, i reckon i did for get to take that into account


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