Well they should PM the moderators don't you think? Because we have just as many PM's opposing your post.:iono: along with info from those who "are very familiar"with the ecm's personally and they say you are wrong. So I guess both sides are represented in the threads and it is ultimately up to the member to make their choice.

and what exactly is the powertrain warranty? Nothing that he said was misleading or unfactual. I dont believe any of us are "anti tuners" here. My only problem with you guys is the way you respond to very simple questions. I agree that our members can make their own decisions, but I dont agree that they should only hear your side of the story. Especially when the op was making a general question to all tuners, but you guys seem to have turned it into an advertisement. Again, I personally have nothing against that, but let our members read both the good and bad of tuning and have them decide what they want to do.

We are once again trailing from the original question. that was posted.
The answer for that is, even if you flash your ECM and reset it to factory settings, GM can see that there was a tune done and void the warranty. If you change your ECM, you might encounter problems and have your warranty voided. Most of our members want to mod their cars. but they must also understand that in order to get full advantage of mods, (especially when getting into heavy modifications outside of bolt ons) or even to change the tires, the car must be tuned. Like it has been said before, if you are going to tune your car, you must be ready to pay the cosequences.

Once again I ask you to remain respectful in your posts. We hold vendors to higher standards than our regular members, if you are not prepared to do so then I ask you to not come back until you are ready to be respectful to everyone on this site.

And I was enjoying this thread...:facepalm:

Just when we were getting to the good stuff... like this...:popcorn:

[QUOTE=Milk 1027;1035150]We are once again trailing from the original question. that was posted.
The answer for that is, even if you flash your ECM and reset it to factory settings, GM can see that there was a tune done and void the warranty. QUOTE]

That is absolutely incorrect. This is exactly what I mean.

This is the kind of bad information that is thrown around as fact by people that don't know better.

If you want to believe that the people on this board are too dumb to make their own decisions, then so have it. I certainly do not think that way.

In ten years of tuning LSX vehicles on multiple forums I have yet to see this.

:facepalm:
I never said members were dumb did I? In fact I sad the exact opposite. Look it seems like you just want to argue the same point. I get my information directly from people who develop the computers. I stated my points and you stated yours. If you want to keep calling me a liar so be it. I'll let the members decide. But I will not continue to let you twist my words and be disrespectful on this site. If you choose to do so, we can very well show you the door. As you can see we don't have the need for supporting vendors and therefore are not tied down by this.

You threaten, you win.

its war!!!

BTW, we think we found the bit to turn off AFM in Sport mode.

Now that's what I'm talking about... I'll throw a warranty away for that...:thumbup:

As someone without a "dog in this fight" I don't see why the mods can't voice their opinions. If you're going to make claims like something is undetectable, you better be prepared to back it up. Tag in particular said nothing wrong. If you're tuning your car, be prepared to pay for repairs out of your own pocket. How is that not 100% factual? While I disagree that GM should automatically void warranty claims on the powertrain if it's been tuned, it is a risk you're taking when you do. I've followed the various "hacking" projects (Xbox, etc) enough to have seen this all before. If GM wants to, this could easily turn into an arms race.

I started this post and for me wanting to "hide" a tune is for warranty of things not related to the tune. My car "might" have a bad output shaft on the transmission. On stock cars they are breaking with stock HP so a tune will not change that. If I tune then now I pay for a factory defect that should be covered. Same goes with the CV joints in the rear. Many are breaking on stock cars.

I assume that most people are like me and not looking to cheat GM but to be covered on factory defects even after modding their cars. If I tuned my motor and I grenade the motor due to a lean condition... my fault and I would be looking to buy a new LSX motor. That is not the issue. With the track record of issues in the driveline many are gun shy to tune and then pay for a breakage that would have occurred without a tune.

In addition some unscrupulous dealers have been known to void the car's whole warranty. Again getting a tune should not effect the warranty of the radio or the power seat. It would just be easier to deal with this things if they are not even called to be an issue from a tune.

As for a tuner paying for repairs. They are as liable as they make themselves. As someone that has owned a business were we were modifying products. (Overclocking computers) The tuner needs to "spell out" their responsibility if things go wrong and make that very clear. (I would recommend a lawyer to look at it to insure it is correct and legal.) That way the buyer understands what the guarantee is by the tuner and who is responsible for repairs if something does go wrong.

With this tuner he sounds very reputable and tons of knowledge. It also sounds like he does not have the capital to transfer the responsibility of the warranty to his company if GM was to void a warranty. For him I would make that clear. Then the consumer can make the choice.

Very well said, thanks.

I know they started keeping an eye on non-factory calibrations in the diesel world when the LMM Duramax came about, but quickly retro'd it back to the '06-'07.5 LLY/LBZ, as well as the '05 LLY (you can read one of the GM bulletins HERE)...so it wouldn't surprise me a bit if GM was doing the same thing in the Camaro, or across the entire model line for that matter. And it's not up to the dealer whether they do it or not, for any drivetrain related warranty work they require a snapshot of the calibration ID from the tech II. Luckily, my LB7 is exempt, but I know a couple guys here in town who's Dmax's went down, and were red flagged because of non-factory calibrations...

Well put. But I think part of the problem is that the "undetectable" claim has been tossed around. If you're going to even insinuate this sort of thing, you better be damn sure and be prepared to back it up with data/facts. It sounds like they have taken measures to make it less detectable. I would leave it at that because as far as I've seen, there has not been enough information put out there to claim anything more. It's just like a software maker saying that their product is unhackable. You're going to get a LOT of people saying "O RLY?"