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-   -   The Hits Keep Rolling (https://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=299961)

King Sun 06-05-2013 01:18 AM

The Hits Keep Rolling
 
http://autos.aol.com/article/chrysle...6pLid%3D323291


Quote:

Chrysler has boldly refused to comply with a government request to recall 2.7 million Jeeps that could be prone to fires, arguing the government is applying unreasonable standards to its vehicles.

At the crux of the dispute is an alleged issue with the fuel tanks on older Jeep Grand Cherokees and Jeep Liberty SUVs. Safety watchdogs say Jeeps have been bursting into flames after rear-end crashes due to poor design; the tanks are behind the rear axle, leaving them more exposed. Since 1993, nearly 500 people have died in Jeep fires after rear crashes, according to the Center for Auto Safety.

After a three-year investigtion, the National Highway Traffic Administration agreed with the safety groups. On June 3, it sent a letter to Chrysler asking the automaker to recall 2.7 million of the 1993 to 2004 model year Grand Cherokees, and 2002 to 2007 Liberty SUVs. The next day, Chrysler issued a press release saying it would not comply because it does not agree with NHTSA's analysis.

"The company stands behind the quality of its vehicles," said Sergio Marchionne, chairman and CEO of Chrysler, which owns Jeep. "All of us remain committed to continue working with NHTSA to provide information confirming the safety of these vehicles."

The company published a white paper on the matter, which argues that NHTSA is applying new standards to older vehicles. "NHTSA seems to be holding Chrysler Group to a new standard for fuel-tank integrity that does not exist now and did not exist when the Jeep vehicles were manufactured," the company argued.

All but one of the fatal crashes involved high speed, Chrysler said. About 78 percent of the fatal crashes involved speeds that exceed standards set in 2008. Most safety standards are set for lower-speed crashes, because high-speed accidents are simply too destructive.

When the investigation was announced three years ago, NHTSA said it found 44 Grand Cherokee crashes and 55 deaths since 1992 where fire was listed as the most harmful factor. Of those figures, 10 crashes and 13 deaths were most likely associated with rear-end crashes, the safety agency reported.

Voluntary recalls

Most vehicle recalls are done on a voluntary basis, and it's rare these days for an automaker to reject the government's request for a recall. It was more common in the 1970s and 1980s. General Motors was embroiled in two recall fights in court with NHTSA, with one over a similar fuel tank issue that Jeep faces here.

Automakers have, for the most part, come to the conclusion that agreeing to a recall is better for their public image than fighting against one in court.

Ford learned that lesson the hard way in the 1970s, when its Pinto cars were also accused of bursting into flames when involved in rear-end crashes. After dragging its feet for years, a memo was exposed showing how Ford had calculated it was cheaper to refuse to install an $11 plastic shield that would prevent the fires from happening and instead pay out settlements to victim's families after the crashes occurred. The automaker eventually recalled the Pinto in 1978, but not until serious damage had been done to its reputation.

Clarence Ditlow, executive director of the Center for Auto Safety, was involved in the Pinto issue and told AOL Autos today's fight over the Jeep fires reminds him of that long-ago battle.

"To be blunt, Chrysler is content with letting its customers burn to death," Ditlow said. "This is the most callous decision I've seen ever seen by a manufacturer, even more than the Pinto (scandal)."

Chrysler's refusal to recall these vehicles could end up in a lengthy battle between NHTSA and the automaker. NHTSA will likely open the issue up for public comment, then they'll decide if they will try to force the recall or not. If they try to force the recall, Chrysler can take the matter to federal court to appeal it.

"Unfortunately, consumers with problematic Jeeps are in limbo," said Michelle Krebs, senior analyst for Edmunds.com "They will have to wait for the process to play out."

mikeyg36 06-05-2013 01:20 AM

That's why I will never own a Chrysler vehicle...

King Sun 06-05-2013 01:48 AM

After that chevy SS announcement I was seriously considering a new charger RT......... I can't get down with that

CamaroSkooter 06-05-2013 08:53 AM

Man, if in my job I was required to retroactively apply all current standards to stuff built 10-15 years ago, I'd have a bit of a problem with that, too.

I don't see Chrysler as being unreasonable at all.

But then again, I'm of the opinion that if you own a mid-90's vehicle (of any make/model) you inherently accept whatever risks that come with that choice. Every manufacturer warrants their vehicles for a limited amount of time. After that warranty runs out, you inherently agree that anything from that point forward is your responsibility/choice.

:iono:

McBeevee 06-05-2013 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CamaroSkooter (Post 6631677)
Man, if in my job I was required to retroactively apply all current standards to stuff built 10-15 years ago, I'd have a bit of a problem with that, too.

I don't see Chrysler as being unreasonable at all.

But then again, I'm of the opinion that if you own a mid-90's vehicle (of any make/model) you inherently accept whatever risks that come with that choice. Every manufacturer warrants their vehicles for a limited amount of time. After that warranty runs out, you inherently agree that anything from that point forward is your responsibility/choice.

:iono:

Exactly what I was thinking too :word:

Stew 06-05-2013 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CamaroSkooter (Post 6631677)
Man, if in my job I was required to retroactively apply all current standards to stuff built 10-15 years ago, I'd have a bit of a problem with that, too.

I don't see Chrysler as being unreasonable at all.

But then again, I'm of the opinion that if you own a mid-90's vehicle (of any make/model) you inherently accept whatever risks that come with that choice. Every manufacturer warrants their vehicles for a limited amount of time. After that warranty runs out, you inherently agree that anything from that point forward is your responsibility/choice.

:iono:

BINGO. i guarantee if GM or Ford was faced with the same unreasonable bullcrap they would have the SAME answer.

Stew 06-05-2013 09:53 AM

How about we actually look at a less one sided article that actually includes Chrysler's side....

http://www.allpar.com/news/index.php...recall-request

Quote:

First and second generations of the Jeep Grand Cherokee

Chrysler Group has received a letter from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) requesting a recall of 1993-2004 Jeep Grand Cherokees and 2002-2007 Jeep Libertys. Such a recall would involve approximately 2.7 millon vehicles.

The request is based on the agency’s Engineering Analysis EA12005, which was opened in June of 2012. It followed a Preliminary Evaluation (PE10031) which was opened in August of 2010 and closed in June, when the investigation was upgraded. Both inquiries regarded crash-related fuel tank fires but, as yet, have not been able to connect the reported incidents to a defect in the design or construction of the Jeep vehicles.
Chrysler is rejecting the government request for a recall. In a statement issued this morning, the company said: “Chrysler Group has been working and sharing data with the Agency on this issue since September 2010. The company does not agree with NHTSA’s conclusions and does not intend to recall the vehicles cited in the investigation. The subject vehicles are safe and are not defective.

“We believe NHTSA’s initial conclusions are based on an incomplete analysis of the underlying data, and we are committed to continue working with the Agency to resolve this disagreement. ‘The safety of drivers and passengers has long been the first priority for Chrysler brands and that commitment remains steadfast,’ said Sergio Marchionne, Chairman and CEO of Chrysler Group LLC.

“The company stands behind the quality of its vehicles. All of us remain committed to continue working with NHTSA to provide information confirming the safety of these vehicles.”

“Chrysler Group’s position on this matter is clear.

“These vehicles met and exceeded all applicable requirements of the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards, including FMVSS 301, pertaining to fuel-system integrity. Our analysis shows the incidents, which are the focus of this request, occur less than once for every million years of vehicle operation. This rate is similar to comparable vehicles produced and sold during the time in question.

“Chrysler Group stands behind the quality and safety of its vehicles. It conducts voluntary recalls when they are warranted, and in most cases, before any notice or investigation request from NHTSA.

“Customers who have questions or concerns can call the Chrysler Group’s customer care line: 1-800-334-9200.”

To view Chrysler Group’s White Paper on NHTSA’s Recall Request, please visit http://media.chrysler.com/newsrelease.do?id=14371&mid=2



mikeyg36 06-05-2013 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CamaroSkooter (Post 6631677)
Man, if in my job I was required to retroactively apply all current standards to stuff built 10-15 years ago, I'd have a bit of a problem with that, too.

I don't see Chrysler as being unreasonable at all.

But then again, I'm of the opinion that if you own a mid-90's vehicle (of any make/model) you inherently accept whatever risks that come with that choice. Every manufacturer warrants their vehicles for a limited amount of time. After that warranty runs out, you inherently agree that anything from that point forward is your responsibility/choice.

:iono:

I think the problem is more of what the effects can be. If your cars are bursting into flames, the right thing to do is fix it and save people's lives. I understand it's a mid 90s car, but that isn't really that old when you think about it.

dkp2LT 06-05-2013 10:50 AM

I'd like to know what the 'fix' is & how much it would cost before making a complete judgment, but based on face value I'm leaning towards Chrysler.

derklug 06-05-2013 12:22 PM

If the problem is not a defect in design or construction, just what the BLANK does the government expect them to do? While you can design a vehicle to last for ages and survive any rear end crash, the end result would be an M-1 Abrams. Not something I want distracted soccer moms tooling around in.

2010-1SS-IBM 06-05-2013 12:57 PM

I'd side with Chrysler on this. 2.7 million vehicles and all that was found was that in 10 rear-end crashes a fire broke out and caused a fatality. We don't know the circumstances of those crashes, but based on the low number of fires compared to the number of vehicles on the road, it sounds pretty safe.

Edit - Just want to add this statement here seems like slander: "To be blunt, Chrysler is content with letting its customers burn to death," Ditlow said.

This Ditlow guy should be sued. There's nothing there to indicate that the cars in question are dangerous, or that Chrysler is acting irresponsibly.

CamaroSkooter 06-05-2013 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeyg36 (Post 6632030)
I think the problem is more of what the effects can be. If your cars are bursting into flames, the right thing to do is fix it and save people's lives. I understand it's a mid 90s car, but that isn't really that old when you think about it.

In practical application, this statement should only apply to vehicles that are under current design standards.

Think about it this way, when a car company tools its manufacturing process to produce its current line-up of vehicles, are we now going to expect them to keep a production facility open for parts/design for outdated vehicles in the off chance that the government arbitrarily forces a recall?

Unless the problem resides with a current generation of vehicle, a forcible recall should be out of the question. I would never expect a manufacturer to be responsible for updating older generations to adhere to whatever new regulations have been enacted after that generation already came and went.

:crazy:

mikeyg36 06-05-2013 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CamaroSkooter (Post 6632721)
In practical application, this statement should only apply to vehicles that are under current design standards.

Think about it this way, when a car company tools its manufacturing process to produce its current line-up of vehicles, are we now going to expect them to keep a production facility open for parts/design for outdated vehicles in the off chance that the government arbitrarily forces a recall?

Unless the problem resides with a current generation of vehicle, a forcible recall should be out of the question. I would never expect a manufacturer to be responsible for updating older generations to adhere to whatever new regulations have been enacted after that generation already came and went.

:crazy:

I agree, there shouldn't be a forcible recall because it isn't feasible, but I think Chrysler should do something about it instead of basically telling owners to **** off. Maybe give them some credit towards a newer vehicle that doesn't burst into flames :iono:

CamaroSkooter 06-05-2013 01:51 PM

Chrysler isn't telling the customers to F off, they're telling the government to F off :thumbsup:


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