What is a Z28 - Between the ZL1 and 1LE?
 

To me it does not matter if the ILE forum is combined with the Z28 forum. Although option or not the 1LE and the Z28 have the same mission in my feeble mind. Unless the 1LE turns out to be even more trackable than the possible eventual Z28. Another opinion I have is we will not see a Z28 until the Camaro gets smaller.

Still, people who are interested in a low cost (ahem) trackable car need a place to discuss the released info, ordering, QC holdups, and eventually the delivery and tracking of the car. And let the modding begin!

So I wonder, exactly what is the Camaro 5th Gen Z28 now that we know just about all of the possible hardware involved?

The ZL1 is not only a Track and a Drag missle, it has high technology to also allow it to be an smooth everyday car and cruiser. No doubt, it is the most awesome Camaro ever and very worthy of the ZL1 name. 2013 GT500 or not. With all that technology and Camaro heavy duty re-engineering the car has weight, insurance, cost, and milage penalties that make it a car for those with a good amount of disposable income who are not a fan of physics. The ZL1 defies those principles.

The 1LE is the lean opposite. It includes everything you need to go faster, except engine mods, that you need to go fast and very little else. To me this this is the hard stuff to improve if you tried to start with an SS. I have. More power from the LS3 is silly easy. And the 1LE makes no pretense about being an every day car. Although I for one like the idea.

I think the 1LE is the long rumored to exist "Track Pack" that has been under development for some time maybe disguised as a Z28/ZL1.

So Chevrolet has made a big investment in the ZL1 and 1LE developing specific go fast parts for two low volume cars. Do we expect them to develop a third set of components?

So to those who think the Z28 is very different from both HiPo cars, how would you build a Z28? What is the overall goal of the car? What existing parts would you use and what parts would you need developed? Is a breathed on LS3 Okay? It probably would be a bit peaky. Or do you have to have the 427? I do love that number of cubic inches too. Where should pricing start? Allow all options?

We do have to keep in mind there is not a ton of development money or time as a whole new Camaro is in the works. And making significant weight savings with the 5th Gen would make the car very expensive. Maybe an ATS based Z28 is what you want where weight savings is a design mantra from the start.

To me the 1LE and Z28 fans are the same people. But how should the cars differ?

Okay, flame suit on. Give me your best shot.

What would/should/will an "real" Z/28 contain?

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149090

Two ways (at least) to go:

1LE, PEDDERIZED, breathed on (underhood)

...or...

1LE, MRC, bhp (LS3+, LS7, LT-1)

BOTH would split the $40 (1LE) to $54 (ZL1) starting points, both would exceed the 1LE, and (depending on venue) both would eagerly chase BIG Brother (ZL1)...

:whatz28:

Holds up Flame shield to protect Fraxum

I think you ask a valid question that we all need to ask and answer.

As with most Z28 fans, I want the Z28 to live up to its heritage. Sadly this presents a problem when people use the 4th gen as a main example.

Now the 1LE came to be in 1988 as a showroom stock race car on top of the Z28 or IROC-Z if you prefer (all Z28's were IROC-Z's starting in 1988). This also held true during the 4th gen cars. Since for most of the buyers now only remember the 4th gen and its heritage this poses a problem.

So that leaves us with where to put a Z28 in the line up.

There's NO dilemma...not here, and not at GM...

Would a ZEE be less than a 1LE? No...

Would it be greater than a ZL1? At some venues, it might...but, generally, no...

1LE+, or ZL1-Lite...take your pick.

Does that jive with "History"? Who cares...but it WILL be thus...

To make a Z28 start with the 1LE and add:

LS7
6/4 2 Piece Brakes
Full Aero Kit
Hot Wheels Hood
Hot Wheels Wheels
Mono Tube Suspension 4 Corners (Pedders) (MRC Optional)
Race Designed Bucket Seats
Leno Front Fascia
Euro Rearend

Allow !SS and 2SS treament to please larger group.

Price it in the mid $40's+
Goal of the car? To be the Baddest N/A Camaro ever!

I like your #1. We can mod the 1LE ourselves or Chevy can fill in the gaps and put the badge on. The Z28 is heading in the direction of a more intense track car.

#2 will get expensive fast. MRC adds to the expense and makes it difficult for us to make "improvements". Also does a Z28 want to baby its driver with a nice ride? And doesn't MRC complicate entering in real track events?

But then again maybe it doesn't so much now if the Z28 comes in at ZL1 dollars. There already is a "bargain" track car.

Sooner or later there will be one. The name is too good to stay retired.

I like this Z28 version. The trick will be at that price point.

There is no general Z28 consensus here.

So as near as I can tell the current idea of a Z28 is:

• 1LE + Mods from our suspension vendors to make car even more track only + more power + Z28 badge.

My #1 1LE wish is better seats. Doesn't have to be Recaros, just better for keeping you in front of the steering wheel.

Say what?

You need to read the Z28 threads. We came to agreement sometime ago.

I must have missed it. Where is that post? It should be a sticky.

...the LS7 has consistantly been picked the weapon of choice to use in a Gen5 Z/28 as Lowdown and 2cnChance have detailed. Many others feel this way as well and it has been widely discussed in depth in the Z/28 threads....seems like the "natural" <as in "aspirated" ;)> choice. Now...maybe they ought to beef up the LS3 like so many others say can be done easily. And I agree, it wouldn't take much. It's already available from GMPP with over 500 HP, the stock LS3 with a more aggressive cam will stoke the fires...but we have to bring in that "recertify" word again. If they don't want to offend the "Vette crowd by letting us borrow the LS7, then let's turn up the wick in the GM engine development department on the LS3, and recertify it < and assembly line produce it>. That's the only two choices I see. One or the other....Damn the torpedo's...full speed ahead...:D

Being so close to Easter, I called upon myself for a lil "resurrection" of sorts...

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...149090&page=62

Verily, verily, I say unto thee...the truth is at hand...all 6-speeds of it, and all 500 of the King's horses...

Alas, as in the Good Book, beware of Brothers...who may be SLAIN...:D :thumbsup:

The more I think about it, with the 1LE being a reality now the 5Gen Z28 can only exist with the LS7. It makes pure marketing sense.

It certainly seems possible. But you might have to wait another model year.

Would the LS7 be cheaper for GM than the LT-1? I wonder how expensive it would be to GM to plug in an existing engine. But I am sure it will cost them/us more than the difference between the crates.

I have already read that thread. It sounds awful close to what I said. I didn't say how there would be more power. But I will keep reading and shut up.

(The Z28 regulars say amen to that.)

I believe it could be done for mid to high $40's. That fills the $ and performance gap perfect. The Camaro at this point has more than paid for itself. Now market the crap out of it with "THE BIGGEST" name in the Camaro family...Z28! What a send off of both 427 and 5Gen.

The problem I have is and is often over looked is that an LS7 cost the same as an LSA so I dont see how it will come in at a price pint much less than the ZL1. I say wait for the Gen V v8 that comes out for the 2014 MY Vette as well as the 7 spd Manual transmission that hooked up to the GEN V LT1 V8.

We want to welcome you to our little corner of the building. ;)

Come in and enjoy yourself................ cold ones are in the fridge. :drinking:

If one or some of us seem rude please don't take it personally we just get tired of the SOSDD. :mad0260:

With the announcement of the 1LE, it's not a question of if we get our Z/28, but when. :popcorn:
GM hurry the *f u c k* up and announce something..
Please shut down the computers and turn the lights off before you leave. :chevy:

...awesome Chance, succinct, and to the point in as few words as possible....totally awesome ....GM listen to this man and let's party like it's 1999,..... now is not the time to be cautious....let's corner the market...drinks are on me.....!!! :drinking:

I do believe though that the LS7 has a slightly higher red line than the LS3, that is one more reason I'd be in favor of the LS7.
Clyde

...hand built, tighter tollerances, titanium rods, less reciprocating mass...yes I agree, but we could bring the price down a bunch on an assembly line tweeked LS3...to a price range even a frugal accountant would be in favor of, for not too much trade off in RPM or performance. ;)

The GMPP LS3 crate would be perfect for price and performance. It's half the price of the LS7, with 480 HP and 470 TQ ... Not too shabby if you ask me, and would be a perfect compromise.

...good suggestion SS...there are some possibilities there...!

How many billions has GM invested in the next gen V-8's? They should be ready to start recouping those expenses. Also, I think the days of reserving the finest goodies for the Vette are over. If the LT-1 is ready I see no reason why it couldn't be intoduced in a fifth gen and what better model to introduce it than a Z28.

Thank you, thank you very much! My question to GM is, why not?

At the risk of riling certain folks, let's take a stab @ building a $48K Base-priced LS7'd ZEE (NOT that we haven't done this a time 'r two):

1LE = "Under $40K"
DELETE the two 6-way Power Seats (when AG1 [P. Dr. Seat] and AG2 [P. Pass. Seat] were freeflow = $600/pr.)
ADD 1LS Seats-cloth
ADD CTS-V Brembos/2-piece Fr. rotors = $595
ADD LS7 = $7K (difference to LS3 "in crate")
ADD RamAir/Extractor Hood = $1,000

Depending on how much "under $40K" the 1LE is, there may be enough left over for a few incidentals...ZL1 side skirts, etc.

Heated/Ventilated Sport Seats in a CTS-V list for $3,500...over the price of Leather CTS seats with Dual 6-way Power...which, in a less-is-more ZEE, could be over $4Gs. Now you're over $50...and I start thinkin' nose-bleed...

for me it never gets old. I like the breakdown, just make sure it's the HW hood! :thumbsup:

...the HW hood does have an intrinsic appealing factor doesn't it? And the wheels as well...it's quite a concept piece...:thumbsup:

Adding the pieces from the HW Camaro should save on cost yet differentiate the Z28 from the other Camaros. Plus it looks Soooooooo cool!

... absolutely Chance! In my minds eye it is cool yes, and visionary....I see the past designs taken into context with modern retro styling cues on the HW...it's a level beyond the norm. But, new tooling for those items will drive up the production at the start, hence the ZL1's carried over parts for the 1LE project will keep that option down<use over the wheels, exhaust etc.., already paid for>. But I'm all about groundbreaking...and I undestand GM's positon about margins and profits, the processs will eventualy play itself out over time. That HW is a bad ass looking ride though....:)

If you start with the 1SS + 1LE + ZL1 brakes then add the LS7 maybe you have a shot at say $47K.
(Complete wild guess, but I am getting the spirit of this forum :))

There is something magic about 427 cubic inches. If ditching the dry sump saves a good chunk of dough, maybe we can live without it.

Then step up to a set of coil overs from one of our helpful vendors. There is not complete agreement on this but most think MRC does not belong on the Z28. So make it an option.

Of course others have said just about exactly this. (edit: Just above here. Doh.)

Thanks, but no one has been rude. I was just getting Z28 schooled. ;) My own fault.

Sorry to make you go through this again. But might the LS7 cost more than the difference of the crates? I know nothing about the expense of plopping an existing engine in a different car from Chevy's point of view.

Are you starting with a 2SS? Can we afford a non brand name seat? Wasn't the one from the GTO better?

Welcome aboard! :drinking:

Welcome aboard! I think perhaps you are realizing that we respond better to honest discussion than we do to negativity. I look forward to your input in this forum, lots of good ideas have been proposed here and I'm sure there will be many more.
Clyde

We think and talk outloud. No one is right or wrong. We share a common bond. Most of us are older guys and want a Z/28 and to go fast. Frills are not that important. It's more about the sum of the parts rather than ergonomics. We had alot of choices back then. Today little to none. Since today it's either package A or B, I feel we err on the side of HP and outright performance is the goal. Heritage also is important. Join us with out cause, come one, come all.

Disagreement can come across as negativity. I must choose my words carefully and not post recklessly.

A wise idea for any forum. Always a challenge for me. :)

...looks to me you are on the right path...well said! :)