Lets make the definitive Harness and racing seat thread!
 

I've been perusing these and other forums educating myself on the many ways people have setup their seats and harness for the track and thought it might be a good idea to start a new thread to compile some of the information I've found into one neat place for easier access. Some of those threads are very old, and while they are very informative some leave many questions unanswered and many of the folks posting in them have moved on. Hopefully we can get some more current information posted here!

SAFETY FIRST
First, let me state the obvious and say that I think we can all agree that whether it's drag, autocross or road course, if you're going to be driving your car on a race track at high speeds by far the safest setup would be a custom roll cage welded into the car. For the ones that have done this I applaud you, but for the majority of people that is simply not a feasible option. I would guess that most people are like me in that we like going to the track and want to be as safe as we can, but still want our cars to have the ability to swap all the track setup stuff out to get the car back into "street" mode. I'm praying for the day TigerCage makes one for the 5th gen, but that doesn't look like it's happening any time soon. But, within the constraint above we want the safest setup possible, right?!

BUDGET
Secondly, I'm assuming that most folks don't have, or don't wish to spend thousands of dollars setting up their cars for the track. Obviously, even with a budget setup you're going to have to drop some decent coin, but I don't believe I'm alone in that I just can't drop $5000 for a pair of OEM Recaro's from GM right now. It's doubtful I would spend that kind of money on those seats anyway even if I had it lying around, as I think there's better places to spend it, lol.

Another consideration in terms of budget is that many HPDE's require you to have an instructor in their novice groups. They also require that you provide the same level of safety to your instructor as you do for yourself. So, generally you will not be allowed to strap in with a full harness system and expect your instructor to strap in with the OEM belts. That means the cost for everything has just doubled!

So with that being said, one aim of this thread is to come up with the safest options possible (without welding in a custom roll cage) on a reasonable budget.

DISCLAIMER
None of the links below are any kind of endorsement to a particular vendor or product in any way. They are simply links to resources I have found. If you're a vendor PLEASE add links to your stores and products! This is only to get the discussion started and your participation is not only welcome but very much desired!

OVERVIEW
To keep from having one huge wall-o-text, I'm going to break this down into sections so each topic can have it's own starting comment to work from. Here are the topics I have in mind, and if you have others please add them in!

HARNESS BARS
USING YOUR OEM SEATS WITH A HARNESS
AFTERMARKET SEATS
TANK PLATES AND ATTACH POINTS ETC
3, 4, 5 OR 6 POINT HARNESS?
INSTALLATION TIPS
OTHER OPTIONS (Angel pads and belt locks)

:)

HARNESS BARS
There seems to be a LOT of disagreement on the use of these devices. I've seen discussions of crashes they have bent and people were ejected from the vehicle because the force of the impact and the person's weight bent the bar and the tension on the straps loosened and allowed them to come out of the harness. Unless I've completely missed it, the only bar I've seen that says has been tested and meets any standards at all is the Brey-Krause, so if you have any testing information about the others, please let us know! In addition to the strength of the device, I've seen discussions that question whether the bar actually places the straps at the correct angle for them to work properly, so I'd like some final answers on that as well.

In terms of safety, it seems to me that one thing to consider is to use the bar only as a guide and bolt your belts to where the factory rear seat belts attach. I believe that requires that you remove the rear seats, but this method might be a good thing to discuss as well. I've definitely seen pictures of this setup so it's definitely doable.

8/10/14 - OK guys, I've been doing some more reading and found the following: According to cornerspeed92, in this post about the strength of the Speedware bar, "I run http://www.sscc.us/ and they are very strict,getting past tech is a bitch. In order to run my 125 mph (tech speed 140 mph) race I have to adhere to certain specs, and this harness bar pass's with flying colors." Still no official rating from Speedware that I'm aware of, but this is a little more comforting.

Anyway, here are a few bars I've found:

CIPHER HARNESS BAR
http://shop.cipherauto.com/Harness-Bar

SPEEDWARE MOTORSPORTS
http://www.speedwaremotorsports.com/...10-harness-bar

BREY-KRAUSE
http://www.bkauto.com/R_1150_Harness...r_p/r-1150.htm

For those who might like to take a look, here are the installation instructions for the Brey-Krause Harness bar. Interestingly enough, it advises to wrap mount your shoulder straps and is designed for the seat to be placed back in the car.

http://www.bkauto.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/r-1150.pdf

:)

EDIT 8/10/14 - Found these pics of Synner's install of the BK bar.
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...6&postcount=83

.

USING YOUR OEM SEATS WITH A HARNESS
There are several posts of folks right here who have used or are using factory seats with a harness bar or roll cage and I for one would like to know a LOT more information on this setup because it would be the easiest and least expensive way to go. If this is the way you're setup, PLEASE post details on your exact setup, how you did it and how it works. Lot's of good quality pictures would be awesome!

Besides the cost, this setup avoids the airbag issue that removing your factory seats causes. I've seen where one person says none of the airbags will work because of this, and I've seen where others say all of your other airbags will work just fine, and it's only the seat airbags that won't work, obviously, because they have been removed.

The other issue that I've not seen definitive answers on is how secure the belts are simply running over the back of the seat and not going through a guide hole in the seat to keep them in position. This is the biggest question I have, and would really like to get to the bottom of it. The guides on the harness bars are generally pretty close to the seat, but is this enough to keep the belts up on top like they need to be? It looks to me like they would be pretty easy to slide down to the rounded part of the seat above the shoulder area which could possibly put the belts in an unsafe or uncomfortable position. Please let us know how this works for you.

:)

AFTERMARKET SEATS
Fortunately, there are a TON of options for aftermarket seats ranging from fixed back full on racing seats to recline-able sport type seats with and without guides for your straps. Recaro, Corbeau, Cipher, Sparco, Kirkey are few of the most popular brands although I'm sure there are others. With this many options you'll have just as many differences in cost, but there are available options that will fit about any budget.

In my research I have found several key issues to consider as follows:
- Size and being able to fit in the seat
- Height and having proper headroom
- Airbag issue
- Attaching points for your belts

SIZE
If you are lucky enough to have a speed shop nearby that carries all those brands and you can stop by and try them on for size that's fantastic. However, even though I live very near racing Mecca, I haven't been able to find anywhere that has a showroom. Everything I've found is for online shopping. But just because I haven't found a store does not mean it doesn't exist. So if you know of a store near Mooresville or Charlotte NC, please let me know.

Anyway, the best I've been able to do is look at the dimensions a style of seat has listed and compare that to the OEM seats in my car. It seems most seats are made for skinny guys, not middle-aged guys with a beer gut like I currently have. (Hey, I'm working on it so be nice!) Corbeau has a nice "wide" option for some of their seats that's worth looking into. Corbeau also offers the option of having a 5 or 6 point harness slot built into your seat as well. I haven't seen where Cipher and others have that as an option to their styles, but some styles already have it built in.

HEADROOM
The next issue for me is most definitely headroom or more specifically lack of headroom with a helmet on! My car has a sunroof and that reduces the headroom that is tight enough in these cars without one. I had to lower the OEM seats as low as they would go and recline the seat back a little more than I really wanted to just to be able to fit behind the wheel with a helmet on. Even then, my helmet still rubs the roof of the car a little, but I didn't find it that distracting. Corbeau has a few models that you have the option of shaving an inch or so off the bottom of the seat to lower it a little and those will generally run around $1000 and up for a pair.

BRACKETS
Most seats will have the options to have sliders as well as brackets to mount them in your car. The height of the bracket obviously will have an impact on how low or high the seat will sit.

:)

TANK PLATES
Obviously these make bolting your harness much easier, but can anyone explain to me why these are so expensive? I would think a decent fab shop could make something similar for a lot less money, but I could be wrong. But nearly $400 for what appears to be a fairly simple bracket seems a little steep:

http://www.speedwaremotorsports.com/...nkplate-camaro

3, 4, 5 OR 6 POINT HARNESS?
Safety first, right? So, there seems to be a LOT of differing opinions on which is the safest. Again, a welded cage and 6 point with HANS is without question probably the safest, but again, most of us can't do that so what do we do? As I said, I've seen one person say that if you can't do a cage and 6 point, then you're better off using a lock and the OEM belt because if you roll the car the harness will hold you in your seat and you'll be crushed, whereas the OEM belt will allow your body to move to the side and hopefully keep you from being crushed.

3 & 4 POINT
Others have mentioned the 3 and 4 point harness and the issue with slipping under the belt or "submarining." Schroth has an "anti-submarining" technology in their 3 and 4 point systems, but I've seen posts where not a few folks are dubious of their effectiveness. However, to be fair, Schroth has video of this system being crash tested, and unless they're totally committing fraud it appears to work as they say it does. But from what I can tell the 5th Gen is does not appear to be listed on their list of approved vehicles to use this system, so I'm concerned about it's effectiveness as well.

5 & 6 POINT
Some of the concerns and issues I have seen with 5 & 6 point harnesses are as follows:
- The roll over issue I mention above
- Using the anti-submarine belts in a seat that is not clotted for them. I've seen where people have run those straps through the back of the seat and basically sit on them and strap in. I've also seen other setups where those belts are run under the seat, around the front portion of the seat and between the legs.
- 5 point harness anti-submarine strap would probably really hurt in the nether regions during an impact, which is the reason there is a 6 point with the double ASM straps.

With any of the configurations, proper installation including mounting points and the angle of the belts is critical.

Examples
Here are some pages of examples of setups others have done. Most are fairly old but gives you some references to look at.

John M's setup
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...61&postcount=9

cornerspeed92's setup (really good pictures!)
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...6&postcount=30
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...5&postcount=33

sting808's setup
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...9&postcount=50

INSTALLATION TIPS
I haven't done it yet so if you have, please post your tips and especially good pictures!

OTHER OPTIONS (Angel pads and belt locks)

So, what if you don't want to go through the hassle and just want to be a little more secure in the seat? Here are a couple of options I've found.

CG-Lock - NOT a safety device but helps you stay more planted in the seat by holding the OEM belts as tight as you want them to be. See the video on the page below. I think this is great for our lower body, but I can see how your upper body would still move some with only one shoulder strap. But still better than nothing and they're not terribly expensive.

http://www.cg-lock.com/index.html

Angel Pads - "Angel Pads are designed for automotive enthusiasts who enjoy track days, autocrossing and other speed events, but who don’t wish to spend hundreds of dollars on a racing seat and all of the necessary brackets."

They're basically a piece of fabric with a block of padding on each end. You sit on the center part and the blocks of padding cushion your body against the console in the center and the door helping to hold you in place. I personally can't believe the cost of nearly $200 for what is essentially some foam rubber and fabric. But the concept is neat and someone with a good sewing machine and a little know-how could probably make their own for a fraction of the retail cost. Or, you may be able to find a good auto upholstery shop to make one for less too. I'm not knocking the product, I just question the high price tag.

http://angelwingstech.com/featured-product-3/

Subscribed!

I have just had installed my aftermarket seats and am now also searching for a harness bar or cage. My helmet scrapes against the headliner of my sunroof equipped car! :doh:
To function well I will need to remove the headliner for any significant helmet clearance.

What seats did you get? Can you describe or detail the installation process and post some good pics? I have the exact same issue and hope to figure out some seats that will give a little more headroom.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=367447

Man those are nice. So much for getting in the back seat. Time for a rear seat delete and shed some more pounds.

Nice thread Balok. Thanks for the info on the harness bars. I've been debating using one because not sure I trust the design to hold up in a track accident. The Brey-Krause looks promising since it is the only one that has been tested. This is one area you don't want to go cheap, safety is what matters.

Don't forget rear impact, where the rear of car impacts a barrier, in most racing orgs, a backing plate is necessary to keep people from breaking their neck/backs on the harness bar or roll bar horizontal bar. Harnesses keep you in the seat but on a hard rear impact they do nothing for you. Adding a horizontal bar with out a large seat brace attached to the bar, the seat can just folder over horizontal bar. OEM seats and seat belts are not designed for this. Even dedicated race seats cannot handle the G forces, thus the required seat braces. http://www.hmsmotorsport.com/store/s...at-back-braces I have no idea what a OEM seat would do against the horzontal bar since there is no design criteria for that.

I've read other discussions about this, IMO, either go the full SCCA/FIA path, or leave it OEM.