[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Originally Posted by Doin It For Dale
What I'm hearing is that GM plans on becoming a technology company, while keeping its four U.S. car brands alive.

...

Exploring other directions is one thing.

Focusing on them to the point where the entire company heads off in a different direction and abandons the ICE car segment because it doesn't want to be seen as a "car company" any longer is something else entirely.

Ford's "mobility company" thinking is more of the same.


Norm

Wow, not sure where this came from. GM is closing factories on poor selling cars that make them no money. Doing so in order to protect the future of the company is far from abandoning any ICE. Watch the auto show coming up. All of the cars on the docket for the next few years (Trailblazer, C8, CT5, CT4, XT6, Tahoe, Yukon, Escalade, etc.) are ALL ICE with maybe a hybrid option thrown in. Far from abandoning anything.

Originally Posted by fastball

They just have to continue to offer something for people who will never buy autonomous or electric. Besides, the infrastructure of gas stations and internal combustion service stations is so pervasive and deeply rooted in every inch of America that it may be 100 years before other technologies take over. Or longer.

Shoving that technology at us is exactly like what Bob Lutz said about forcing fuel economy standards: it's like forcing people to lose weight by making it illegal to make pants with a waistline larger than 30"

I hear you can still buy a flip phone.

Originally Posted by hotlap

well said. I've bought three new in the last five years. This is a betrayal. The American people saved them, not Mexico or China. I've owned two Hondas. They are very good and built in Ohio

Maintaining profitability is betrayal to whom? The American people saved GM so it could do exactly what it's doing.....protect and grow it's future. Maintaining jobs for cars that lose money seems like a charity. And if you think the American people simply created a big charity, well I'm glad you have the Christmas spirit.

Originally Posted by merlin803

100% agree. I have leased 4 new Camaro's since 2010 and my family has exclusively owned GM cars for decades and what they seem to be telling me is they do not appreciate it and maybe it is time to look elsewhere.

I support 'Made in America' because it keeps me, my family, friends and all Americans employed.

Where on Earth do you take this as a message that GM doesn't appreciate your business? If you and other Americans had bought Cruzes, CT6s (awesome car), Impalas (was launched as a lower volume car and never lived up to it) Volt (no one ever give GM credit for technology......ever!) and oh you are upset that they closed two out of date transmission plants that make 6 speed transmissions????? Sorry, not seeing how this is interpreted as lack of appreciation. AMERICANS were not buying these AMERICAN MADE cars.

Note Cruze production continues in Mexico and China and the CT6 continues in China.

Originally Posted by merlin803

I literally do not know a single person who has said they would be interested in an autonomous vehicle.

Wow you must hang out with a limited group. I'm the outlier in my group. Most at least entertain the thought. Me? I've never used Uber or Lyft. What's coming is the more profitable version of those two. No driver needed.

Originally Posted by DaveC113

I don't think this is entirely the case. Wages in Europe, Japan and the US are all pretty high. Many non-US brands even manufacture here. We have tariffs on vehicles as well.

Also, none of that really helps solve any of the issues I mentioned. Not that there are any great solutions at this point.

Our issues are not as simple as competing with countries with lower wages. It's many factors, like the number of people retiring and the associated social security and medicaid/medicare costs, the overall cost of health care, the cost of education, and more.

For our auto companies, they are responsible for billions in retirement costs and health care that foreign auto companies aren't burdened with. If we were to let them fail, the burden would be on the American taxpayer to take care of them. Maybe this is a reasonable solution, it might be better than having our auto companies completely give up on selling cars?

Our tariff is only 2.5%. Compared to our exports to China and Japan it's tiny. Like him or not THIS is what Trump is trying to fix.

Originally Posted by protovack

internal combustion isn't going away
electric vehicles are a niche market, always will be, they will make electric vehicles while people are willing to buy them, then when the old batteries start stacking up and nobody knows what to do, ethanol will take over. Ethanol combustion is the future and if you haven't noticed, GM is heavily invested in ethanol production, and has already designed ethanol compatibility into several of their platforms. I predict that some day, we'll be converting our 6th gen Camaro's over to either E85 or pure ethanol and still be driving them happily.

Always is a lonngggggg time. Come back in 5 years.

Ethanol? Had it's 5 minutes of fame and it's all but gone. GM tried to lead the way to E85 and not only got no credit for it, no longer has any E85 vehicles. Maybe the trucks are still capable.

As we run hell bent for 15 BILLION inhabitants of this planet, ICE can't be sustained. Even if Ethanol were to make a comeback, it's still combustion.

In the end, when you look at it, ICE does not work for a future of autonomous and ride sharing. An electric vehicle has huge advantages for that market.

People that come on here everyday to talk about a performance car are NOT the key market for autonomous or EVs. Remember the car we love to talk about here is a tiny fraction of what GM produces now. Tiny.

And GM is NOT abandoning ICE. Not for the near term anyway.

GM is NOT showing lack of appreciation

GM is NOT a charity.