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Old 01-25-2023, 09:11 AM   #288
Martinjlm
Retired fr GM + SP Global
 
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My thoughts in red, interspersed with Wyzz Kidd’s original thoughts….
Because it’s not cleaner, it’s not cheaper and it’s a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist.


1. EV’s cost more to purchase. True. But keep in mind that except for a few specific examples we are dealing with first generation EVs and their cost footprints are constantly improving even without generational change. Also, the Total Cost of Ownership is already lower for most EVs when compared to similar model ICE. Can’t get past the cost per mile of electricity as a fuel being way the hell below cost per mile of gasoline.

2. In the UK, operating an EV costs more. The US is not in the UK, therefore irrelevant

3. 80% of world wide power is generated by fossil fuels, primarily coal, so EV’s arguably pollute more. In the US this is changing in parallel to the introduction of high volume EV.

4. EVs have less range, are slower to refill, and have the problem of battery disposal. EVs have more range than the average person drives in a day, take ZERO time to fill up at the beginning of the day because if plugged in over night, you have a “full tank” every morning. Between second use of expired car batteries (energy storage) and a growing recycling / remanufacturing business, there is likely to be competition for expired car batteries, much like their has been high demand for catalytic converters since the mid ‘70s.

5. Battery production creates large amounts of toxic waste and often involves slave child labor. Not wrong, per se, but the interesting thing here is that the same materials are needed in smaller quantities in ICE vehicles. So either way, the issue needs to be addressed. It should also be noted that though most cobalt (as an example) is mined in Republic of Congo and child slave labor problems exist in Republic of Congo, it does not equate to any cobalt sourced from Republic of Congo is mined through child slave labor. The vast majority of cobalt mined in the Republic of Congo is mined through acceptable socio-economic processes. Assuming “all cobalt that comes from RoC is mined through child slave labor is parallel to a thought process similar to “anybody who owns an AR-15 is a likely mass shooter”. Both statements are gross over-reach.

6. The inputs needed, cobalt, copper and lithium are not available in the quantities needed to replace ICE vehicles. This part is not universally true. The issue is not the “availability”, it is the “financially viable” availability. Just like oil in the ‘90s. Remember fracking? There were oil reserves that were not reachable by conventional methods, but if it was worth the expense and process shift (fracking) then “hallelujah! There’s more oil!” The oil was already there. It was just more difficult and more expensive to get to. Same thing with lithium. And cobalt. And copper. Et cetera. The areas that are most problematic are and will continue to be several rare earth metals that are required for electric motor manufacture.

7. It’s not currently possible to get even close to 100% ‘clean’ energy production. But it is already, in the first generation of EV, with old methods of power generation, cleaner over life cycle than ICE will ever be. And EVs and power generation will continue to get cleaner with generational improvements.

All of these statements are facts, not pie in the sky predictions of what ‘might’ or ‘probably’ will be possible ‘someday’.

There is some fact in what Wyzz Kidd says, but a lot of it is misapplied. Sorta like if someone were to drag race their Camaro SS against a Mustang EcoBoost and declare “Camaros are clearly faster than Mustangs”. It’s true for a specific set of facts, but totally ignores the fact that there is a Mustang Shelby GT 500 lurking around. Because UK has some weird policies that allow for price gouging of electric vehicle charging does not translate to US buyers of electric vehicles will pay similar prices to operate EVs which is clearly the more relevant fact set.
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Last edited by Martinjlm; 01-25-2023 at 09:31 AM.
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