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^^ Agreed about negotiating payments - as long as you include all the variables, it doesn't matter. Tell the dealer you want an $XXX/mo payment with a X-month loan... then let them play around with bottom line price and interest rate to get you to your number.
In my case, a 5 year loan from my credit union gets me $433/month with my estimates for my trade, down payment, bottom-line price and interest rate. I would have no problem telling the dealer I want to be at $430/mo for 5 years, and let him play around with my trade value, car price, etc, as long as I pay the same out of pocket I'm happy.
Dealers are people, too, and salesmen do have to make a living. I'm not saying to not negotiate, but be flexible and it should pay off. If you can't get the price you want, then go somewhere else.
I've always gone on the assumption that the faster and easier you can make the process for your salesman (and yourself), the more willing they'll be able to work with you.
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