rmyers, only part of this is directed specifically at you.
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Originally Posted by rmyers
What difference does it make if everyone that opposed it came from a state with a foreign owned car factory. Perhaps it gives them better insight as to what works and what doesn't. These foreign owned plants do hire americans and contribute to the local, state, and federal economy don't they. Do you honestly believe there is some cynical reason for them voting against this legislation. Lets not forget, it is only the Big 3 that are threatening bankruptcy. While the other companies are hurting from the recession, they aren't threatening to go underr at least not at the moment. So what we need to do is put our emotions aside and ask our selves, what are the foreign companies doing that prevented this from happening to them and lets convince the Big 3 to do the same. Instead of financing the same old tired business practices that got them here in the first place. You can describe insanity as, doing the same thing over and over again, while expecting different results.
For the sake of our kids and grandkids we owe it to them to fix the difficult problems now, instead of passing them off on them to fix later.
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Well, if a Honda plant is operating in Alabama and the big 3 go under, that would mean extra shifts at that plant. More jobs for them. Why isn't Toyota hurting? Maybe its because most foreign automakers are practically blocked from selling in Japan. Maybe its because Toyota doesn't have to support a few thousands and thousands of retiree's, or hundreds of thousands with a healthcare plan. Maybe its because they get help to do things like making hybrids. Or maybe its because of a more efficient business model, which calls for middle management to work themselves to death.
For the last couple years, GM has been restructuring itself. Look at the new products and improved quality and reliability. Look at all the layoffs and plant closures they've announced. They haven't been selling fewer vehicles (until the last 6 months that is), their market share has been decreasing. Ford started a bit earlier. Chrysler just recently. In hindsight, this was a decade too late.
If Chapter 11 is a free ticket to salvation, why was GM even asking for a loan? I'd like to think that they know more about this than any of us do, just like they know more about how to engineer a car. We complain as if we know what we're talking about. But we only know a small part of the story. If there was a way for any of the automakers to simply ditch the union, then they would have done it. Instead, GM does things like making an agreement with the UAW that reduces their costs by $8B. Losing the union would be double that.
Ch 11 isn't a magic wand that fixes everything instantly. Most companies that file for ch11 are either financial institutions or service industries, not manufacturing comanies. But even then, it normally takes years for those 'simple' operations. A company as big as GM could take a decade to get everything settled, a long with an awful lot of money and reduced sales for them. Also, ch11 allows for a company to be forced to liquidate their assets if restructuring doesn't seem viable.