[Number 3]

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm, finally back to some good discussion in the House of Z.

First, you are assuming (bad word you know, ass/u/me) that IF and I mean Capital I, Capital F GM were to build "a" Z28 (everyone keeps saying "the" Z28 as if it were real and about to be announced - maybe it is, maybe it isn't), but I digress, lets assume GM does decide to build a Z28, why do you believe the natural solution is to "Beat the Boss"?

GM will offer the ZL1 which at a minimum will beat the GT500 and may even toss it in the weeds. Chassis alone will be a big advantage for the Camaro with all that power. But does Ford intend that the Boss is a better car for $10,000 less? No or at least they aren't saying so because there is still a need and place for the GT500 (no Corvette, cough, cough).

But right now, as I understand it, YOU can't go buy a Boss. It's a limited production car. So if you are GM do you go spend money to simply be better than a 4,000 or so unit limited edition car that today is sold out? Not buying or selling, just asking. I believe the Boss volumes will be less than the GT500, but I may be incorrect on that.

As for "the key", my opinion here, it's a gimick. If it is customer selectable, you can't get around it for CAFE or Emisions. It's like an ECO button. GM does this as well. It gives the customer access to a calibration that may not satisfy all customers in some driving conditions. But if you want max FE, you can hit that button for a calibration more focussed on FE. Same with "the key". It gives the customer access to a calibration that may be a bit better for the track and a bit worse for driving around town. But the customer can choose when to apply it and when not to. So it's not a lot different than putting your L99 into sport mode. That gives you a more aggressive shift pattern than what you might otherwise want for dailey driving. A cool gimick, don't get me wrong. But still a gimick IMO.

And yes, GM offers a car that puts the Boss on the trailer. It just costs more than the $40,000 you seem willing, no eager, to part with.

But for me it is exactly this type of conversation that is part of what makes this web site and this industry so interesting and satisfying. There really is no right answer. No customer or potential customer is wrong. It just might not be practicle for an OEM to satisfy every customer want fully.

So let's explore further.

GM can not likely add HP to the LS3 or L99. If they could have they would have already in the Corvette. The performance exhaust in the Corvette buys you an extra 6 HP, but at the expense of the 2 stage exhaust. This will be coming in the ZL1, but would you pay the $$ on an SS for 6 HP? So to give you a "tweener HP" you only have the LS7 to work with. And as we know and have discussed at length, this is a hand built engine costing MUCH more than the LSA going in the ZL1. So would you pay the same money for an LS7 car with 50 less HP and a far less sophisticated chassis? The car would likely perform quite well and with the slightly reduced weight from not having the SC, it might give the ZL1 a run..............but for the same money. And now you have invested money in two cars that do the same thing.

Chassis performance. GM has already announced the FE4 upgrades coming in 2012:

FE4 suspension enhances performance

The new FE4 suspension debuts as a performance improvement for the Camaro SS coupe in 2012, focusing on more refined handling.

"Our objective was to create a more precise sport suspension for the SS coupe, with greater road-holding capability," said Al Oppenheiser, Camaro chief engineer. "We applied lessons learned from extensive track testing to better refine the suspension geometry for flatter cornering, a more neutral balance during hard turns, and minimized understeer at the limit."

Elements of the FE4 package include:

•Retuned front and rear dampers
•New solid front (23 mm) and rear (24 mm) stabilizer bars
•Twenty-inch aluminum wheels and P245/45R20 front/P275/40R20 rear tires (SS).


More than just new components, the new FE4 performance suspension incorporates learning from the ongoing development of the high-performance Camaro ZL1. In particular, the suspension geometry has been adjusted, including reshaped stabilizer bars that are repositioned outboard of the shock mounts. This results in more effective body control and more precise response in performance driving.

And there is likely more that can be gained here as well. As Fbodfather often says, "We're not done yet". So is this chassis upgrade Z28 worthy? Or do you still need more?

You won't get a "light weight" Camaro. Simply put the Mustang is a smaller car and weighs less. Heck, the Mustang could probably lose 100 or 200 pounds. It's based on an old architecture. And add an IRS to the Mustang and suddenly that weight difference is a bit less obvious between the two cars.

And as I've posted, only the Gen 1 Z28 meant very much. The Gen 2 through 4 cars to me were slight chassis upgrades (FE4 anyone ??) and an appearance package. Might have been an axle ratio, but I don't even recall better brakes being available on those Z28s. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I never really saw a big difference in the later year cars with the Z28 badge. If I recall correctly, the Gen 4 Z28 required the SS package to get the extra 15 HP.

So be not discouraged, what you know to be true today can change in an instant. I know GM brass including Mark Reuss reads this site from time to time. And hopefully, although not everyone believes this, GM does listen to it's customers.

So continue the discussion and lets see where we end up.