[PfadtRacing]

Originally Posted by Trackspec Motorsports

Heres my 2 cents on this...from car guy to car guy, not vendor on camaro5 to car guy.

It sounds like the OP is looking for a great bang for the buck mod that will inspire much more confidence in the handling of his driver. From taking turns to emergency manuevers, he wants the assurance that the car will do what he wants it to, when he wants it to. And it also sounds like he wants to limit his modding to just a couple items since he is not running the car at an HPDE or pushing 400 horse. And lets not forget the original question..."Do i really need sway bars?" since we seemed to have gotten away from that...

During Camaro5festII, I was fortunate enough to be part of the Pfadt Track attack instructor crew and was given the opportunity to ride back to back to back in several 2010's with various levels of suspension mods from stone stock to stage 5's and also everything inbetween....and what an experience it was to truly prove out each level directly after one another. But each time i got into the car and spoke to the driver, one of the first things i asked them was what suspension mods were done to the car. Most were springs and sways or better, but when the driver of car #1 told me it was stock, I cringed and held on to dear life because i knew it was going to be a handful. I think we even scraped the side view mirrors on the road turning in off the highspeed straight.

The next car i got into, call it car#2, was a pfadt stage 2 car (springs and sways package). Beleive me when i tell you this, it was a completely different car, no BS. Turn in was crisp and clean, body roll was minimal, and the car felt light years tighter than the stock camaro i just got out of. I even asked the driver if he had sub bushings in since the suspension felt very "clean" and he said, "no, not yet, but its on the list." The driver was extremely new and it was their first time on a real roadcourse but regardless of being green to HPDE's, by the 3rd lap, he was really starting to hang this car out and pick up speed passing others. By reducing body roll, balancing the car, and tightening up the response, the springs and sways package inspired confidence in his driving and the driver knew that the car would do what he wanted it to, unlike a stock set up.

I dont disagree with JusticePaul at all with suggesting the bushings. I think they serve their purpose and are a great basic upgrade to help improve handling and rear step in every camaro. But if I had to ride with a leadfooted new driver on a highspeed roadcourse and had a choice of either a springs and sways package vs a sub/diff bushed car, I (and my blood pressure ) would take the car with the springs/sways package any day of the week. And that thought can be applied to spirited canyon carving. I hope this puts it into perspective for whatever the OP's goals may be.

So with that all being said, to the OP, YES, you need sway bars, but thats not all you need.

Just a real world experience.

John

Originally Posted by L99CAMA2011

My Suspension mods so far are , eibach swaybars, 29mm f/r, made car more neutral, reduced understeer, did not reduce wallowing feel. BMR trailing arm, reduced wheel hop, reduced understeer some more, firmed up rear a bit made it more predictable even on wet, LSR billet toe link arms, stiffened up rear even more , both trailing arms and toe link arms made the rear very stable for everyday or spirited street driving, now highly confident , athletic rear end feel still not enough for me ( I literally challenge Evos, Lotus exiges and S2000 around corners and twistees) but would be enough for you. Pfadt strut brace, I really didn't want to drill but made a huge difference in extreme maneuvers a must for me may not be a must for you, not needed in your case. Springs and struts still stock on my car your v6 may have different spring rates.The front sway bar is garbage way too small for my L99 3900lbs and a highly contributes to front end understeer, and maybe even for your car. I don't believe in the rear balance bar since the front end slop also needs to be addressed as well, Steering rack bushing from BMR or Pedders is also a must,( didn't think it would make a difference but it did big time, made my steering feel more stable and firm). Now my front end control arms are the weak link and I am now replacing my front control arm bushings. After my few suspension mods the verdict is this rear cradle bushing upgrade are not needed for non extreme drivers my rear end now feels very planted, however the rear end cradle bushings are horrible and I would recommend them upgraded anyway even with inserts, in my case I have to do cradle bushing and was even considering Pfadts solid units for extreme ability. I've spent about $1300 so far on all my suspension mods so far about $1000 without the Pfadt strut brace and my car now handles very well for a guy like you. So for you I would say Sways F/R endlinks and BMR rear LC arm reinforcement piece, rear trailing arm and toelink arm,( I personally like Pfadts trailing arm and toelink arm best, perfect blend of light weight and strength, my BMR trailing arm is very heavyduty but a little too heavy for best suspension performance bound rebound wise), BMR or Pedders steering rack bushing, radius rod bushing, a must for the front end in my book, cradle bushings because the stock stuff is crap, literally feels like marsh mellows, also the way the rear cradle moves around I think it would lead to premature differential and driveshaft damage in the future. (((SWAY BARS AND SPRINGS ALONE ARE NOT GOING TO SOLVE YOUR PROBLEM AND CORNERING INSTABILITY WILL STILL BE AN ISSUE SLOPPY FACTORY BUSHINGS ARE THE MAIN REASON THIS CAR WALLOWS LIKE A PIG)))

Originally Posted by Trackspec Motorsports

Keep in mind, the OP's first concern was that sway bars do little to nothing to add to performance from his first post. "...and a sway bar would add little to no benefit." I was just trying to put it in perspective for him aside from everything else that has been stated.

No pissing contest here, if you reread my post, i agreed with Justice but at the same time, addressed the OP's original concern of the sway bar peice. I think everyone is making correct points, just in different directions since the OP's concern is a very subjective one with several different solutions for different issues.

Hope everyone is enjoying their holiday weekend

John

You guys make some excellent points. John, your description is extremely accurate with how Pfadt came up with the sway bar sizes and rates. If you watch the video we posted on how sway bars eliminate understeer, you can imagine the procedure we used to dial in those sizes untill we reached this performance goal:

"Turn in was crisp and clean, body roll was minimal, and the car felt light years tighter than the stock camaro i just got out of."

This is exactly what you get with Pfadt sway bars, and what you will find our customers attest to! Put quite simply, as GM factory race car driver Johnny O'Connell said about suspension upgrades : "When we improve vehicles, it doesn't mean you have to be a race car driver to use it effectively, it actually means the opposite; it makes the car easier to drive." This is exactly what we aim for with ALL upgrades, not just sway bars.

Derrick, you make some great points with John, in that the upgrade process is obviously not straightforward for everyone. It is a TOTAL EQUATION, that consists of multiple parts, which is the exact determination we came to, and hence, all of the upgrades that our company designed to help.

And as both of you point out to the OP's actual question, sway bars are certainly part of that performance equation

|Blair