[fastball]

Originally Posted by Number 3

If only your comments were true. Yes the cost structure has an impact on what the car will cost. And yes it would be nice if every care we built had "no compromises” Unfortunately; to BE General Motors you have legacy costs from your history, a history that brought a LONNNNGGGGGGG list of wonderful cars including now 5 Generations of Camaros. Innovations, inventions and creations that most of you are unaware of. GM was god in the crashworthiness world when I took a break and worked for another OEM, because we did so much incredible work over many years on saving lives in car crashes.

So BEING GM has legacy costs that the Japanese and German OEMs don't have. You act like it is GM's own fault in your posts. But you don't seem to be bothered that the reason the Japanese and German OEMs don't have these costs is because the government funds the health care completely. They have no costs. Did you know that the Japanese OEMs benefit $1,000 to $2,000 dollars on every car because of manipulation of the YEN. Yep free money.

So don't bash GM for this. Our government has let it happen, and the American people don't give a darn. Any lack of competitiveness isn't in our ability to design, engineer and build great products, it is in the very social issues that we as Americans ignore.

As far as no compromises? Well try to imagine every engineer getting their way. Only a very few cars on the road use THE best leathers, woods and metals without cost in mind. For all of you posting that “this little change would have only added a little cost or a little mass so GM is a FAIL for not doing it” you need to understand what it’s like to keep a car under mass and cost targets. Mass means fuel economy and performance. If 20 engineers just asked for a little bit more, virtually no more, the car would have been heavier and cost more.

So please quit making statements like that. This is an incredible car by any stretch. I've shown it to my friends at that Japanese OEM where I used to work and watched them pour over it with keen interest and enthusiasm.

Sorry to rant. It’s just so hard reading these comments about how easy it is and that GM is a FAIL because they don’t get it. That is the problem we have in the eyes of many people at the government level right now. They have no policies like they do in Germany or Japan that help their own industries and for some reason many of you seem to be ok with that. Why can’t the Big 3 compete? Why can’t Michael Phelps win a gold medal with hand cuffs on.

Again, sorry for the rant, but it had to be said IMO.

I completely understand your frustrations. I want to be clear that I am not being hypocritical here because I will buy a Camaro.

I want GM to be the best they can be. Problem is, while I have seen massive improvements over the last 4-5 years in product, I still think there is much more room for improvement. That is why I have given much praise where it is deserved but I also am not afraid to point out areas where I think the company is continually flawed. I want to buy American, but I won't let American companies rest just out of ideology. That's part of what got GM into a pickle to begin with - core customers buying and saying their products were great when, lets face it, there was a time when they weren't anywhere near.

Please understand that I think the Camaro is a great car - it is by far the best car I a have seen out of GM EVER. The body panels have no gaps. For all of my ranting about the interior is it still a very high quality interior (I pissed some people in line off at the auto show because I spent about 10 minutes just feeling the knobs, switches, and other pieces/parts in the car)...... but there can still be improvement that I think would have happened if it were not for a still malligned cost structure that GM has to deal with.

I am in clinical engineering at a well known Cleveland hospital and we have to submit at minimum 6 cost savings reports/ideas to my boss every fiscal quarter - at the same time, we must continue to provide top quality service and maintenance on all critical life support systems and equipment. No corners cut, but still under budget. Believe me, I know how trying that can be but it can be done.

What we don't have to deal with are legacy costs. I won't flush this thread down the political toilet, but I will say that GM didn't HAVE to agree to provide healthcare to every person back when these contracts were negotiated. GM could have had 401k or other investment options for retirement instead of a company funded pension. Most people in this country have a 401k or 403b or other retirement investment options (whatever they're worth now is not the point - they're not burned by the profits of a single company, but many different ones). Most people in this country have a healthcare plan provided by a third party and they pay a monthly stipen out of their paycheck to keep it, and have deductables and co-pays and other expenses. Even at the hospital we still have to pay for it.

The legacy costs, company funded pensions, company funded healthcare, no matter who is to blame, they were completely avoidable, and for that I do blame the powers that be at GM. Not you, or Scott, or anyone else who really don't have anything to do with it. In fact I think you do a hell of job considering the circumstances...... which is why I'm sure every car you make would be so much better if the right cost structre was there.

Sorry for the rant. I don't mean anything I say personally, it's my completely objective view of the modern global automotive business from someone who's followed pretty much every car from every car company in the last 20 years.