[KJS]

Originally Posted by chevydude26

how do you not know what legacy costs are...please don't address me if you don't know the facts...

unfortunately about 30 to 40 years ago gm had a pretty big marketshare and the management never foresaw competition that would occur decades later

so horrible agreements were made with the unions who are practically run by tony sopranos where workers would be paid for not working for almost the rest of their life...theres a program where if you get laid off you get paid almost your whole salary until another job somewhere else opens up

anyway bottom line this alone makes the avg cost of labor for gm to be double that of toyota and the other foreign competitors...not to mention gm has to pay tariffs in japan and in other places while they don't pay any sorts of tariffs to sell here...

then you combine that with c.a.f.e (if you noticed i never said c.a.f.e. was the only standard) and you've got an escalating issue which puts gm in a tradeoff bind where you either cut quality or the price...and throughout the 70's and 80's gm cut quality to keep their price in line with their competitors...

like i said every industry that is in trouble you will find it to be heavily unionized...and please watch that video i posted...ms bartiromo is one smart analyst and owns that union boss guy

the solution was to go bankrupt way back in october and null and void their contracts and restructure the right way before all these "car czar's" started calling the shots you know telling them to close dealerships and having the gall to fire their ceo's without a peep from the actual chairmen or stockholders input...

i'm just sick of misinformed people with mismanaged facts and misleading headlines blaming gm for all of this

it was never an even playing field and they've done a hell of a job making quality products for the past decade even with all the artificial obstacles put in their way

i apologize in advance if i offended anybody but it is what it is

Hey Chevydude....
Legacy costs are GMs fault, they signed the contracts with the unions. There are plenty of unionized companies that didn't have the sweet deals the UAW got because they managed their employee relations well. GM and other auto companies did not! Legacy costs are imbeded in other things like Corporate management's salaries, their bonuses, their benefits, etc. Choices made when deciding to purchase EDS and other failed enterprises.

GM never saw competition coming - So because they kept their heads in the sand and when it was too late and made boneheaded decisions like selling Caveliers badged as Cadillac Cimerons its not their fault that smart customers said WTF and bought well built well equiped foreign cars? I guess we give GM a free pass on that one right? Shame on the customers wanting something worth their hard earned money!

Bartiromo smart analyst? Along with Jim Cramer right? Ever work on Wall St? I did. She is known as a pretty 'talking head", the "money honey" with not much else to offer.

Quality "you either cut quality or the price...and throughout the 70's and 80's gm cut quality to keep their price in line with their competitors...". I guess your statement pretty much says it all - sacifice quality instead of cutting your costs. But remember there are other ways of making money and being competitive besides sacrificing quality. CUT YOUR BLOATED DUPLICATED STAFF! You don't need the exact same corporate structures - marketing/finance, etc. for every all 6-7 auto divisions!

And lastly how do you explain the "Saturn Factor". American built, in modern factories, with a devoted "cult like" buyer following, a honest to God foreign car competitor??? GM had a great plan, they really did. Leave them alone to act as an almost independent company. But guess what GM SCREWED THAT ONE UP TOO!!!! Not because of the unions, not because of the foreign competition, not because no one wanted their product! NOPE GM decided to bring it directly under its corporate control and guess what? IT FAILED. Another "artificial obstacle"?

Loyalty And to others who said there is Loyalty in sports. Huh? You'd be hard pressed to name a modern Football, Baseball, Basketball, Hockey, Soccer.... player who would continue to play for the same team just out of loyalty to the team if they weren't offered more money. Go ahead, give me a list of 10 out of the above! And how many teams moved out of their cities because of a better deal? Where is the loyalty to the fans in those cases?