Quote:
Originally Posted by fbodfather
Amazing -- simply amazing.
I read these threads and I wonder.................
So - for all of you who think you're really great behind the wheel:
(...and I don't mean to belittle you, but I take great exception with your encouraging people to turn the traction control and stabilitrak off when they get behind the wheel......you are doing NO ONE a great service other than perhaps your ego...)
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I mean no disrespect here, and if I've got an ego it's because there is sufficient basis for belief found in my own driving history and that of my wife. I have to go back over 40 years in order to find anything other than parking lot damage and at least 35 to find an incident where a ST system
might have proved beneficial. Between the two of us, we're closing in on a million miles driven. Less than 30,000 of that is with stability control and/or TC, and there's barely 150,000 miles under our belts with ABS. I don't know if that's good enough to meet your definition of "great", but it's been pretty darn good as lived through.
I realize that none of the above guarantees that I won't get into a preventable accident tomorrow. Then again, ST, TC, and ABS won't guarantee it either. Having them may (or may not) make it less likely.
My point here isn't about ego, it's about the simple fact that as long as you drive within the limits of yourself, the car, and the road and other conditions it is entirely possible to drive - safely -in the absence of the nannies. Nothing more, and certainly not as active pressure or influence on others to do so.
The implication that comes across in warnings against turning them off is that somehow those of us with long and successful driving experience are suddenly no longer sufficiently capable as drivers. That's perhaps how words like "nanny" and "training wheels" slip into the conversation.
If I was 40 years younger, I might not see as much infringement from these systems and perhaps be less inclined to think "nanny", etc. I can only hope that as an engineer myself I would at least understand that their capabilities are still limited by tire grip. I am not at all convinced that people in general know this at the instinctive gut-level.
Perhaps it really should be more of a vehicle-specific concern. SUVs, Smart cars, and the like which have an inherent disadvantage come to mind. There already is precedent for "fixing" shortcomings in either the vehicle dynamics or driver skill via recalibrating the ESC (that Lexus SUV matter of a couple years ago).
Quite frankly, it scares ME that instead of fixing the mechanical side it's that the vehicle dynamic limits are effectively lowered. It bothers me that system calibrations might not let me take advantage of future developments in tire technology or aftermarket-based chassis tuning efforts.
I will toss out a point that I don't think anyone has mentioned yet. Suppose that out of several cars that any given person currently owns, only one is equipped with stability control and only one with traction control. "Muscle memory" being what it is, don't you think that one should be able to make them all behave in similar fashion under extreme conditions? Or can it somehow be guaranteed that all extreme situations will occur while driving the fully equipped car? (didn't think so)
Yes, I understand that anybody can come to grief on a race track. That's a completely different environment and is properly a separate topic. Anybody who drives even near 10/10ths on the street is an accident actively looking for a place to happen. Driver error, for which the driver is responsible.
Scott - I know that you can't for a number of reasons publicly agree with anything I've posted above. All I'm hoping for is that you can at least understand where I'm coming from.
I can change the way I word a few things in the future, but not the way I think. Too many miles and too many years worth of inertia.
Norm