Quote:
Originally Posted by Zfatuated
I don't want to re-build a car, I want a turn-key track car. One that is dependable and fast.
You can do that re-build, you seem to know exactly what's needed. How many of these track car builds have you done so that we know you've validated and proven this concept of transforming the ZL1 into a more durable, faster, cheaper track car?
There seems to be several folks who feel as you do, my suggestion is go build what you propose, prove the value proposition, and earn your credibility. Otherwise, the flapping of lips with nothing to show for it is getting mighty tiresome to listen to.
No, "we" do not all know that.
I actually have experience street and track driving Trofeos. In fact I wore through several sets of the original Trofeo before the R's were released. Then I went through several sets of the first Trofeo R's that were released in the US. From what you wrote it obvious you have no idea what you are talking about in regards to this tire. It's is as progressive at the limit as any street tire and probably more so than most. That is the fact from experience.
There is nothing inherent in a square set-up to make it any more of less prone to "losing it".
Tire contact patch is but one of very many variables that affect handling and balance. To say that having a wide front tire will make a car less forgiving at the limit is ridiculous as a blanket statement.
Your insinuation that the tire setup on the Z/28 is dangerous is ludicrous.
Who would make that assumption? I don't recall reading it being thrown about frequently? In fact I've never read it on this forum? So, who is making that assumption? That would be "you".
You are starting up again with this ZL1 comparison, yet anyone who is serious about buying a Z/28 is crystal clear on the difference, and GM has taken great pains to explain the differences. Yet you continue to try and flog the ZL1 as the car to buy?
Dude! WTF? Where do you come up with this crap?
"reign supreme"
"excusive statement of uniqueness"
Who, other than you, is saying this stuff?
Go buy the 'Vette. Go buy the ZL1. Why haven't you already done so?
Here you go again. Cite references from racecar engineering literature supporting your blanket, standalone statement that "A square set up is defo looser than staggered and as such requires more skill to drive fast. It might be faster than staggered, but only in seasoned hands.". We'll wait...
What a crock of crap.
Here we go yet again. I don't know what I would do without your effort to save me from myself? Why would you even think of trying to frame a discussion in this manner? What potential Z/28 owner thinks like that? And how the F would you know it? Because nobody here has posted anything remotely close to what you are portraying as fact.
And again (whew) you try to frame the entire value proposition of the Z/28 as boiling down to a comparison to the ZL1 and three seconds of lap time. Why would you do that?
After reading your posts, I have a theory and it is that there is something other than kindness and goodwill towards man behind the persona you attempt to portray in this forum. I think you are a crafty little troll. I'll let the fullness of time prove this theory right or wrong.
|
Thanks for your reply. You're right, i don't know how the suspension is tuned on the z28 re the square tire set up. Usually, those set ups are looser: case in point a Vette. Z28 might obviously be different. I stand corrected.
As far as how z28 is being positioned as the "ultimate" track Camaro those are not my words, but somebody else's who suggested the following in THIS thread (not to mention all the media): "what we are trying to do is to bring the Z/28 back to it's original purpose - and that is to find mustangs on a road course and eat them. No - I'm not saying that this car is set for SCCA rules - what I AM saying is that this car is an amazing driving machine - and on a road course it will blow cars costing many times more to kingdom-come."
Foregive me if I interpret this as meaning that no other Camaro is as fast and as such the z28 is worthy of a lofty price. But, as others do, I am free to speculate the zl1 will do just as well (hypothetically perhaps even better?) with equal R comp tires. Does posing such suggestions make me a troll? Does seeking information and clarifications make me a troll? Do we live in free society, or are certain questions verbotten?! Most folks don't know the difference between a street and an R comp tire, or type of brakes, etc. They read a marketing release, salivate and reach for their wallets. Agree that my style might be a bit edgy, but if GM asks me to fork out an equvalent of a zl1 (or a Vette) and a compact sedan for a z28, I would like to know WHY they think it is worth it. If you have an answer, do post it. BTW: since z28 is billed as a "pure" track car, it is lap times I am after as that's what matters at a track.
NB I had a 81 Z28 and it was the best car I've ever owned. I was hoping to get a new one. I am astonished and disappointed by the pricing strategy GM pursued. Z28 has always been an enthusiasts car. It has been absent for such a long time. And now it has been released as a rich and famous museum car. And that's a crying shame. All we can hope for the strategy changes in the next gen.
Regards.