[Kenji]

Alfie-

First off, I want to thank you for choosing a Hurst Shifter and appreciate your support. However, much of the information in your post is erroneous. I know that you are working with information that was reported to you by a GM project manager, however, as we all know - managers sometimes don't have all the information available to them or sometimes it might be "candy coated" as it passes from person to person through the chain of technicians, engineers, and managers. Please, don’t read this post as any type of comment or affront on you personally as I know you are just relaying what you have heard. And please realize that I don’t normally like to comment on this product (as I prefer to let the product “speak for itself”) but in this case let me attempt to set a few things straight:

Originally Posted by alfie43

After many months, GM's constraint on the Hurst Shifter Option has been lifted. It was with good reason that GM held the shifter on constraint until now. The current aftermarket Hurst did not meet their specification requirements in terms of lever effort.

This is absolutely incorrect. The Hurst aftermarket shifter was never part of GM's consideration. The GM/Hurst factory shifter was developed well before the Hurst aftermarket shifter. It was originally designed with a very modest throw reduction when the project first started over three years ago. This target reduction was NEVER changed even up until now and had no bearing on the delays that occurred in the project.

The delays involved have more to do with changing production and thus validation requirements. The requirements changed when this product went from deal installed option to factory installed option. Also, the requirements changed when GM became restructured. A whole new group of tests, engineers, and managers had to re-test, re-evaluate, and re-approve when the above events occurred. New tests, meant new changes to design and new design, meant re-testing to validate the changes.

Lever effort had been established from day one. It has never been altered from the initial design intent.

Originally Posted by alfie43

There are some here that are satisfied with their Hurst shifter, but there are many more like me (and caverman) that found it to be sub-standard by the amount of lever effort required to shift.

Yes, it is positive; you always know what gear you are in and it has a much shorter throw, but it is notchy and too stiff to move in and out of gear.

The aftermarket Hurst shifter was designed with a completely different set of goals. This is directly from the installation instructions that came with the Hurst aftermarket shifter:

"You can expect reduced shift throw (over 40%), increased strength and better, firmer, yet smoother and more precise feel thanks to extremely tight design and manufacturing tolerance over the stock factory pieces while utilizing an industry-first Teflon® lined spherical bearing as the main pivot; all while adding a classic or stock look to your vehicle’s interior... Furthermore, this shifter has been primarily designed as a “competition” and/or “race” shifter. As such, much of the isolation has been removed to give the driver the most direct and positive link to the transmission without compromise. In doing so, this does increase both tactile and sometimes audible levels of vibration. While every effort has been made to reduce the amount of objectionable transmission/driveline noise transmitted into the interior of the vehicle, some vehicles may experience greater amounts than others. If this is possibly objectionable or unsuitable to your intended type or style of driving, return this product to your retailer for refund prior to beginning installation."

When GM designs a shifter, they have to make it work for everybody - from a pro-race driver down to grandma and grandpa on a Sunday cruise. This is not the case with the Hurst aftermarket shifter - and it says it directly in the instructions. It has been designed for the few that will race and/or compete... it is not for everyone. Pure physics will tell you that reducing throw - reduces mechanical leverage. There's no easy way around it. However, the shift throw and effort on the Hurst shifter has been extensively tested (in-house, by many member here on Camaro5, by race teams and their drivers, and by independent laboratories) to provide the quickest and most positive shifts in harmony with the clutch, transmission and drive-train. Furthermore, Hurst left the door open for the customer to be able to bolt on any the Hurst upper sticks. This means you can change the throw (and the lever effort) simply by bolting on a different upper stick. Check the Hurst catalog: http://hurst-shifters.com/Catalog/B-M-Catalog-Online_2 (See page 30). I would suggest maybe part number 538 7238 to help increase leverage (just note that you will also increase throw).

Originally Posted by alfie43

I talked to a GM Project Manager this past weekend at the Gratiot Cruise; the warm up for the Big One; The Woodard Dream Cruise in Metro-Detroit. He said their tests verified that the throw reduction on the Hurst also reduces the mechanical leverage, resulting in too much effort to shift. Therefore, the new GM approved Hurst shifter will have less throw reduction to correct that problem.

Again, this is not completely factual. Yes, reducing throw proportionally increases effort. But, this is true with any shifter including the current GM/Hurst version or any other shorter throw shifter (that’s just a matter of basic physics) and it’s a matter of personal preference. GM had never subjected the aftermarket Hurst shifter to the GM/Hurst shifter validation requirements. Why would they as this would be like comparing apples to oranges – they are not the same thing and do not have the same design intent.

Originally Posted by alfie43

I used to drag race with Hurst shifters years ago, mostly the legendary Hurst Competition Plus Shifter. Full throttle power shifts at 7500 rpm (302 small block) was the norm. There were no rev limiters to protect your engine back then....miss a shift, lose the motor, i.e., valves hit pistons, pistons push back and then they all step outside to settle the matter.

Along with their positive engagement, the hallmark of those Hurst units was their slick and silky smooth shifting, but this aftermarket shifter for the 2010 Camaro is not in the same league. I am disappointed in mine. Again, try shifting a Competition Plus Hurst and see what a performance shifter should feel like.

To those of you that want the shorter throw, I caution you to try one out before you buy the aftermarket Hurst. There are plenty of them out there at any local cruise and car show. I see Hurst shifters in 5th Gen Camaros every week, but you won't see one on my car much longer.

The early Hurst shifters are a completely different design and function and actuate a different style of transmission (external rod actuated) that were constructed much more loosely with a much less positive feel in shifting. The earlier style shifters were able to improve the shift feel while retaining the loose yet smooth feeling of the transmission itself. Today’s internal rail transmissions are much tighter which improves efficiency but sacrifices smooth/loose shift rod movement. Much of the “feel” of shifting has much more to do with the transmission itself rather than the shifter, although the shifter does play a part in amplifying or muting that feel. The TR-6060 that is in the 5th gen Camaro is actually much improved over the T-45, T-5, T-56 and TR-3650 of even a few years ago but at times it still has the tighter general feel of these new more efficient transmission. Thus it’s really not fair to compare the old 3 and 4 speed manual transmissions to today’s efficient 5 and 6 speed transmissions. And many newer drivers expect (and actually like) this type of feel in a modern sports/muscle car transmission. I guess it’s really what you’re used to operating and your perception of what feels good.

I do completely agree with you that if you have the chance, feel any shifter before you purchase. Just like gloves, one size does not fit all.

Originally Posted by alfie43

The current aftermarket Hurst reduces the factory throw by 44% and I understand the new GM approved Hurst has a 22% reduction. I have a new MGW shifter that was delivered last week. It has about a 30-35% throw reduction from the stock unit. I may wait and see how the "new and improved" Hurst plays out before I make another shifter change.

Alfie

Again, this is your personal preference and what feels right to you and your style of driving. Hurst is a racing company and supports motorsports. The aftermarket Hurst shifter is called the Billet Comp/Plus shifter (comp meaning competition) because this shifter’s first and foremost goal is to be the quickest shifting, shortest-throw race shifter, with a direct link to the transmission without compromise period. This does not fit into the majority of everyday drivers’ intended use and is not intended to do so. Hurst’s goal with its aftermarket shifter was not to sell the most shifters. It is built for a driver that is looking to be the fastest on the track.
I do thank you for trying our product, and I am sorry if it does not fit your driving style or intended use. There are many other well built and well constructed shifters on the market including the GM/Hurst factory shifter option that have a slightly different design goal. We really do appreciate your and everyone else on these forums' feedback and I wish you luck in finding the shifter that suits your needs whether it is a Hurst product or one of our many competitors.


Thank you.

-Kenji