Is it the ceramic pads or the install?????? - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

JProberts · 01-05-2011, 05:08 PM

About a month ago I got some Hawk ceramic pads installed when I had my calipers painted. Immediately I noticed that the brakes felt much softer than before. I have to push harder on the brakes and my foot feels like it goes much further down than before.

I also notice that is seems like if I lightly pump the brakes at a light than they feel like the become firmer?

Is this a characteristic of the Hawk Cereamic pads? Or could it be that my installation was not done well and maybe the lines were not properly bleed or something else installed improperly?

I have to take my car to the dealer for a last check up before I install some other mods so I was going to ask them to take a look at the brakes again to see if they feel what I feel. And can verify there work was done properly.

Now I understand the Hawk ceramic pads would not perform as well as the Hawk performance pads but I did not expect as much as a drop off in performance and feel from the HC pads compared to the stock pads.

Anyone who has installed the HC pads on the OEM rotors give me your impressions of these pads feel and performance as this may help me look further into the installation of the pads.

Thanks

My 5th · 01-05-2011, 05:20 PM

I installed the Hawk Ceramics on my car and didn't notice any change in pedal feel. I don't see why anyone would bleed the calipers on a pad change, but it sounds like you've got some air in your lines.

After installing the ceramics I had the Pedders Xa's and braided stainless brake lines installed (which did require a brake fluid bleeding) and the brake pedal felt much firmer afterward. I attribute that firmness to the braided brake lines.

baranowski · 01-05-2011, 05:21 PM

I do not know about the "hawk ceramic" pads. But it sounds more like you have some air in your brake lines.

Just a thought,
Bill Baranowski

Unknown SSRS · 01-05-2011, 05:23 PM

hmmmm shouldnt need tobleed to breaks if ur just changing the pads.... how did u break them in? i did a test with hawk hp+ pads at the trak... and theres a big differenace in how they perform depending on if u broke them in properly....

GMteSSted · 01-05-2011, 05:32 PM

I installed the HP Ceramic's and did notice they grabbed better than the factory pads I took off. The factory pads did have 11K miles on them. I closely followed HP's break in procedure and did not bleed or open my brake lines to install them, just removed the master cylinder cap to allow the fluid to flow back up easily. It sounds like someone who painted your calipers took the brake line loose and didn't properly bleed the air out. Take it back and have them fix it. I seriously doubt it has anything to do with the pads.

JProberts · 01-05-2011, 05:35 PM

Well they told me they had to bleed the lines since they were swapping out my calipers.... maybe I didn't explain that properly in my OP, they actually put on some new calipers I had powdercoated along with the HC pads....my bad on the explanation, it was actually a core exchage with mikethepowdercoater, great job btw.

But the air in the lines kind of describes how this feels when I press on the brakes.....as far as breaking them in unfortunately I had to brake them in while driving home from the shop on the highway while it was snowing. When getting new pads before I don't really ever remember needing any type of brake in period.

JProberts · 01-05-2011, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GMteSSted

I installed the HP Ceramic's and did notice they grabbed better than the factory pads I took off. The factory pads did have 11K miles on them. I closely followed HP's break in procedure and did not bleed or open my brake lines to install them, just removed the master cylinder cap to allow the fluid to flow back up easily. It sounds like someone who painted your calipers took the brake line loose and didn't properly bleed the air out. Take it back and have them fix it. I seriously doubt it has anything to do with the pads.

Ohhhh...didn't know there was a specific brake in procedure for these pads......where can I find that info?

GMteSSted · 01-05-2011, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JProberts

Ohhhh...didn't know there was a specific brake in procedure for these pads......where can I find that info?

I believe the break in procedure is posted some where in the wiki section on this site. They were printed on the box my pads came in. If you've already been driving the car its probably too late to do the break in. Basically it was several starts/stops gradually increasing speed and allowing enough time in between to keep the pads cool.

JProberts · 01-05-2011, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GMteSSted

I believe the break in procedure is posted some where in the wiki section on this site. They were printed on the box my pads came in. If you've already been driving the car its probably too late to do the break in. Basically it was several starts/stops gradually increasing speed and allowing enough time in between to keep the pads cool.

Oh yeah I've seen that procedure before and did it with my stock pads when they were squeaky, its like getting the glaze off of the rotors or something but it did work with my stock pads but the feeling I'm talking about I don't think coems from not breaking them in.

I'm leaning towards air in the line right now since no one else has said they have the same experience with the HC pads and this is such a big differene than before.

Thanks for the feedback guys

christianmotox · 01-05-2011, 06:26 PM

It does sound like you have air in the lines, You might want to bleed it a second time.

JProberts · 01-05-2011, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christianmotox

It does sound like you have air in the lines, You might want to bleed it a second time.

I was afraid of that...then I guess I should take it back to where I got the install done so that I do not have to pay for it to be done again.....I don't think they can deny that that air was introduced whe nthey did the install correct?

christianmotox · 01-05-2011, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JProberts

I was afraid of that...then I guess I should take it back to where I got the install done so that I do not have to pay for it to be done again.....I don't think they can deny that that air was introduced whe nthey did the install correct?

Right, when they where replaced, air was introduced, and it needs a bleed. remind them that there are 2 bleed screws for every caliper(one on each side) and both need to be bleed.

Good luck

JProberts · 01-05-2011, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christianmotox

Right, when they where replaced, air was introduced, and it needs a bleed. remind them that there are 2 bleed screws for every caliper(one on each side) and both need to be bleed.

Good luck

If this is the case and air was introduced in the brake line getting work done at the chevy dealer that would be very discouraging....I would think the tech's at the dealers would have some experience with doing these brakes, are the 2SS calipers the same type of brakes on the vettes an CTS's?

Thought going to the dealer would have been a plus on this type of standard work. Wouldn't replacing factory calipers be a pretty standard thing for a dealer cert tech to do?

Maybe air in the line is not the case but will find out next week hopefully.

Kunihiro · 01-05-2011, 10:32 PM

If I was a betting guy, I'd go along with the rest of the folks and say you have air in your system, due to the caliper exchange.

There are different processes to brake bleeding and since this is a rather common issue, rather than re-inventing the wheel to describe the procedure, you can browse this thread:

http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/search...=2639748&pp=25

I'm a member on this Second Gen site and there are different discussions on the how to of brake bleeding, ie: gravity bleeds, etc.

For those of us who are too cheap to buy vacuum bleeders, the most simplest way to to pump bleed the brakes, using two people, a bottle half filled with brake fluid and a 1/4" rubber tubing from the bleeder screw to the half filled bottle. One person holds the tube and yells "pump, pump, pump" while the neighbors are wondering who's having wild sex in the garage. And the second person is sitting in the driver's seat, pumping the brake pedal. The pedal must be pumped very slowly and not like someone's having a $50.00 quickie!

At any rate, check out the thread and you can read up on the how to's. It's really a very simple procedure.

Allen

01-05-2011, 05:08 PM	#1
JProberts Drives: 2SS RJT RS/Sunroof Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 868	Is it the ceramic pads or the install?????? About a month ago I got some Hawk ceramic pads installed when I had my calipers painted. Immediately I noticed that the brakes felt much softer than before. I have to push harder on the brakes and my foot feels like it goes much further down than before. I also notice that is seems like if I lightly pump the brakes at a light than they feel like the become firmer? Is this a characteristic of the Hawk Cereamic pads? Or could it be that my installation was not done well and maybe the lines were not properly bleed or something else installed improperly? I have to take my car to the dealer for a last check up before I install some other mods so I was going to ask them to take a look at the brakes again to see if they feel what I feel. And can verify there work was done properly. Now I understand the Hawk ceramic pads would not perform as well as the Hawk performance pads but I did not expect as much as a drop off in performance and feel from the HC pads compared to the stock pads. Anyone who has installed the HC pads on the OEM rotors give me your impressions of these pads feel and performance as this may help me look further into the installation of the pads. Thanks

01-05-2011, 05:20 PM	#2
My 5th Drives: 2010 2SS/RS M6 Black on Black Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Global Citizen Posts: 1,243	I installed the Hawk Ceramics on my car and didn't notice any change in pedal feel. I don't see why anyone would bleed the calipers on a pad change, but it sounds like you've got some air in your lines. After installing the ceramics I had the Pedders Xa's and braided stainless brake lines installed (which did require a brake fluid bleeding) and the brake pedal felt much firmer afterward. I attribute that firmness to the braided brake lines. __________________ Meh

01-05-2011, 05:35 PM	#6
JProberts Drives: 2SS RJT RS/Sunroof Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 868	Well they told me they had to bleed the lines since they were swapping out my calipers.... maybe I didn't explain that properly in my OP, they actually put on some new calipers I had powdercoated along with the HC pads....my bad on the explanation, it was actually a core exchage with mikethepowdercoater, great job btw. But the air in the lines kind of describes how this feels when I press on the brakes.....as far as breaking them in unfortunately I had to brake them in while driving home from the shop on the highway while it was snowing. When getting new pads before I don't really ever remember needing any type of brake in period. Last edited by JProberts; 01-05-2011 at 05:38 PM. Reason: added info

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01-05-2011, 05:21 PM	#3
baranowski Drives: 1968 Bronco,2001 Fatboy,2010 SS Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Southeast Posts: 713 View My Garage	I do not know about the "hawk ceramic" pads. But it sounds more like you have some air in your brake lines. Just a thought, Bill Baranowski

01-05-2011, 05:23 PM	#4
Unknown SSRS Drives: 2011 VR SS/RS Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Long island,NY (nassau) Posts: 252	hmmmm shouldnt need tobleed to breaks if ur just changing the pads.... how did u break them in? i did a test with hawk hp+ pads at the trak... and theres a big differenace in how they perform depending on if u broke them in properly....

01-05-2011, 05:32 PM	#5
GMteSSted Drives: 2018 ZL1 1LE Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Tennessee Posts: 878 View My Garage	I installed the HP Ceramic's and did notice they grabbed better than the factory pads I took off. The factory pads did have 11K miles on them. I closely followed HP's break in procedure and did not bleed or open my brake lines to install them, just removed the master cylinder cap to allow the fluid to flow back up easily. It sounds like someone who painted your calipers took the brake line loose and didn't properly bleed the air out. Take it back and have them fix it. I seriously doubt it has anything to do with the pads.

01-05-2011, 06:26 PM	#10
christianmotox Drives: ( . )( . ) Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 2,827	It does sound like you have air in the lines, You might want to bleed it a second time.

01-05-2011, 10:32 PM	#14
Kunihiro Drives: 2010 Charcoal Gray, 2SS/RS Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Upland, CA Posts: 66	If I was a betting guy, I'd go along with the rest of the folks and say you have air in your system, due to the caliper exchange. There are different processes to brake bleeding and since this is a rather common issue, rather than re-inventing the wheel to describe the procedure, you can browse this thread: http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/search...=2639748&pp=25 I'm a member on this Second Gen site and there are different discussions on the how to of brake bleeding, ie: gravity bleeds, etc. For those of us who are too cheap to buy vacuum bleeders, the most simplest way to to pump bleed the brakes, using two people, a bottle half filled with brake fluid and a 1/4" rubber tubing from the bleeder screw to the half filled bottle. One person holds the tube and yells "pump, pump, pump" while the neighbors are wondering who's having wild sex in the garage. And the second person is sitting in the driver's seat, pumping the brake pedal. The pedal must be pumped very slowly and not like someone's having a $50.00 quickie! At any rate, check out the thread and you can read up on the how to's. It's really a very simple procedure. Allen