Headers loose torgue and horsepower? - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

FFPM73 · 03-14-2010, 05:38 PM

Once again, another thread about exhaust. Here it goes. I have been looking into purchasing the Kooks full header/exhaust system. Their system includes everything needed 1 7/8 headers to a 3 in full exhaust including cats, X pipe, two mufflers with polished tips. With that said, recently, we took my buddies Ford Lightning to a performance shop to start pricing headersfor his truck. This is what was quoted to us, unless the truck is over 500hp at the rear wheels, putting headers on will rob the engine of torgue. Meaning, his truck will LOOSE power putting on headers. What will happen if I put headers on my Camaro? Will I be loosing torgue/HP? What is the perfect size to put on for the best overall performance? Eventually I plan on building the motor maybe a supercharger, maybe a MAST Performance Stage III kit (heads, cam, pulley), but it could be awhile before that happens. Any advise would be greatly appreciated.

Bell040 · 03-14-2010, 05:43 PM

you must have missed the Jannettey Racing header experiment.

someone will post a link for you I'm sure

summary: get headers... big headers

you won't lose power on a Camaro by installing LT headers

but you might lose your drivers licence

axis · 03-14-2010, 05:45 PM

There are two things that show this shop doesn't know what their talking about. Number one, losing HP and TQ is a myth and has been proven, AGAIN, in a thread from a trust vendor here using all three header sizes. The largest ones (2in) made the most HP AND Tq. Second, the lightning is a SC'd truck so the bigger the better.

SGOS252382 · 03-14-2010, 05:54 PM

Read this thread (Header dyno test thread)
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...ht=header+test

Each size of headers (1 3/4, 1 7/8, 2'') made excellent HP and TQ. While the 2'' made the most overall HP/TQ, Jannetty mentions that the 1 7/8 are the best all around headers.

But they all make excellent power.

moiy1983 · 03-15-2010, 09:21 PM

over the weekend i installed the Kooks full exhaust kit (1 7/8 headers,catted x-pipe,&mufflerfs) and sounds good. Now today I went to a local performance shop
(G-FORCE MOTORSPORTS) to get it tuned and it based lined with 386hp with exhaust kit and cia whun a stock car usally baselines at 365-375 per the shop. So that show it right there that there will be gains and after the tune was done it peaked at 408hp and 402 tq.

MarylandSpeed · 03-16-2010, 04:51 PM

The Lightning is supercharged. In a lot of supercharged applications you will loose boost with a header setup. Without a matching tune, this could cause a loss of power. This is why normally the Ford guys go to a smaller pulley with headers.

Meister@Torq · 07-01-2011, 12:49 PM

For those of you interested, check out our torq facebook page. We are doing a poll right now with a Magnacharged Camaro. How much boost will be lost when adding 1 7/8 headers to this car. We will then run a poll about power gains/losses.

Apex Motorsports · 07-01-2011, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by axis

There are two things that show this shop doesn't know what their talking about. Number one, losing HP and TQ is a myth and has been proven, AGAIN, in a thread from a trust vendor here using all three header sizes. The largest ones (2in) made the most HP AND Tq. Second, the lightning is a SC'd truck so the bigger the better.

+1 with a couple of caveats.

With the Lightning being supercharged there are other considerations that the Camaro doesn't have but when done properly he will definitely make more power. Tell your buddy to look at a pulley for his supercharger and a dyno tune along with that exhaust system. With those three things he will have a monster on his hands.

For the Camaro SS most manufacturers are offering 1 3/4 inch, 1 7/8 inch, and 2 inch primaries. Here is what typical dyno results look like:

Stock: 372 RWHP 376 RWTQ

1 3/4 headers with high flow cats: 401 RWHP 404 RWTQ

1 7/8 headers with high flow cats: 408 RWHP 409 RWTQ

2 headers with high flow cats: 413 RWHP 410 RWTQ

As you can see, simply switching from the restrictive stock manifolds to 1 3/4 long tube headers is worth approximately 30 RWHP and 30 RWTQ on a bone stock Camaro SS. The larger the primary diameter gets the more air the headers will flow but the power band is moved farther up the RPM range. The impact of the larger primary diameters is magnified the more powerful the engine is, especially when you introduce forced induction. This means that generally the more power you make or the more race oriented your application is the bigger primary diameter you need, the closer to stock or the more street oriented the smaller primary diameter you need.

In the specific example of the 2010+ Camaro SS, we have found that the 1 7/8 long tube headers are the best all around header for the typical bolt on modified car that is driven regularly and occasionally taken to the track. They offer a tremendous improvement over stock with room to grow as owners modify their car further. The 2 inch headers offer very similar numbers to the 1 7/8 headers up to 5000 RPM where the 2 inch headers pull ahead. They are ideal for those running forced induction or for race applications.

03-14-2010, 05:38 PM	#1
FFPM73 Firefighter/Paramedic Drives: RJT 2SS/RS M6 LS-3 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Burlington, KY 41005 Posts: 423	Headers loose torgue and horsepower? Once again, another thread about exhaust. Here it goes. I have been looking into purchasing the Kooks full header/exhaust system. Their system includes everything needed 1 7/8 headers to a 3 in full exhaust including cats, X pipe, two mufflers with polished tips. With that said, recently, we took my buddies Ford Lightning to a performance shop to start pricing headersfor his truck. This is what was quoted to us, unless the truck is over 500hp at the rear wheels, putting headers on will rob the engine of torgue. Meaning, his truck will LOOSE power putting on headers. What will happen if I put headers on my Camaro? Will I be loosing torgue/HP? What is the perfect size to put on for the best overall performance? Eventually I plan on building the motor maybe a supercharger, maybe a MAST Performance Stage III kit (heads, cam, pulley), but it could be awhile before that happens. Any advise would be greatly appreciated. __________________ *FFPM73*

03-14-2010, 05:43 PM	#2
Bell040 Drives: 2SS/RS - Black - GFX Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: B'ham, Alabama Posts: 2,458 View My Garage	you must have missed the Jannettey Racing header experiment. someone will post a link for you I'm sure summary: get headers... big headers you won't lose power on a Camaro by installing LT headers but you might lose your drivers licence __________________ Ordered: 10-13-08 Built: 3-30-09 (#1691) Recieved: 6-12-09 Blacked out, Cammed (Lunati Voodoo 233/245, .578/.598 @114°, +4°), ARH LTs, VR OTR CAI, Cutouts, and lots of other fun mods.

03-14-2010, 05:45 PM	#3
axis Search Ninja Drives: 2010 Black 2SS/RS A6 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Central Ark Posts: 7,183	There are two things that show this shop doesn't know what their talking about. Number one, losing HP and TQ is a myth and has been proven, AGAIN, in a thread from a trust vendor here using all three header sizes. The largest ones (2in) made the most HP AND Tq. Second, the lightning is a SC'd truck so the bigger the better. __________________ 2010 Black 2SS/RS A6 Halltech CF 102 fed GPI modded intake manifold Bo (knows) White ported TB Kooks LT's/ Dynomax VT Pfadted (springs/sways) Dyno tuned by Rhino and GPI I once parallel parked a train.

03-14-2010, 05:54 PM	#4
SGOS252382 Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: S.W. Florida Posts: 6,294	Read this thread (Header dyno test thread) http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...ht=header+test Each size of headers (1 3/4, 1 7/8, 2'') made excellent HP and TQ. While the 2'' made the most overall HP/TQ, Jannetty mentions that the 1 7/8 are the best all around headers. But they all make excellent power.

03-15-2010, 09:21 PM	#5
moiy1983 Drives: 2010 camaro ss/rs Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cleveland tx Posts: 437	over the weekend i installed the Kooks full exhaust kit (1 7/8 headers,catted x-pipe,&mufflerfs) and sounds good. Now today I went to a local performance shop (G-FORCE MOTORSPORTS) to get it tuned and it based lined with 386hp with exhaust kit and cia whun a stock car usally baselines at 365-375 per the shop. So that show it right there that there will be gains and after the tune was done it peaked at 408hp and 402 tq.

03-16-2010, 04:51 PM	#6
MarylandSpeed Account Suspended Drives: 2012 ZL1 & 2010 2SS/RS Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Maryland Posts: 3,378	The Lightning is supercharged. In a lot of supercharged applications you will loose boost with a header setup. Without a matching tune, this could cause a loss of power. This is why normally the Ford guys go to a smaller pulley with headers.

07-01-2011, 12:49 PM	#7
Meister@Torq Drives: 2001 Crown Vic Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Miami Posts: 974	For those of you interested, check out our torq facebook page. We are doing a poll right now with a Magnacharged Camaro. How much boost will be lost when adding 1 7/8 headers to this car. We will then run a poll about power gains/losses.