Project - Supercharger

[WheelmanSS]

Hey yo,
I’m in the process of putting together a supercharger setup for my 2010 SS, and I wanted to make an all-encompassing thread to cover my project from soup to nuts. I know a lot of these items have been compared and contrasted to death, but I want to put it all together. I know everyone is going to have their opinions based on their experiences, but I think that, coupled with vendor feedback if they chose to chime in, can build a productive thread.
A little background: In the past, I’ve built a cam-only, big suspension car, and a heads/cam horsepower/torque beast. The only things I still want to accomplish is an FI setup or a big CI motor, and given this motor is fresh as a daisy, I think it’s time for the FI setup.
My goals: I’m not chasing HP on the dyno. I want a reliable street car with occasional strip visits. My car only has full exhaust now (Kooks Stepped long tubes, magnaflow cat-back) and I’ll be adding more suspension mods (just a hotchkis chassis brace currently) as I go. I would be very happy with 550 reliable RWHP. I will definitely go conservative on tuning and would rather have more supporting mods for higher HP than actual HP itself. The stock motor specs are designed for N/A, so I don't want to push the limits by going all out with FI. A few years down the road, when I can do a new motor designed for FI, the goals will certainly change.
So let’s dig in…
Supercharger
The decision here is screw vs centrifugal. Given that I am not chasing HP on the dyno, I am leaning towards the big players on the screw side.
1. TVS 2300 – Reputable, well-known, familiar, proven gains, low-end power. This is the common option and has great torque curve and also potential for growth.
2. Whipple – Good upper-range power, potentially higher overall HP up top, reliable. Against the TVS 2300, some say this makes better upper RPM power. It also seems to have good IAT ranges.
3. Vortech – Good intercooler setup, more HP potential, and more noise! From what I read, Vortech has a great cooling design for comfortable IATs, and room to grow with more HP up top.
4. Procharger – Familiar, big power range, noisy, and customizable. I can’t get ATI out of my head since I always wanted one in my LS1 days. Great power and I love the whine sound, but reliability is a question mark, and the D1SC is not in a comprehensive kit, not sure if that is a pro or con.
Supporting Mods
1. Injectors – It looks like many of the kits include these, but how high do you want to go? For my application, it seems like whatever comes out of the box will have enough duty cycle to support my needs. Is that true? Any lb-per-hour I want to target?
2. Fuel Pump – The BAP (boost-a-pump) makes me raise an eyebrow. Pumping more voltage into a stock fuel pump doesn’t sound like the best way to safely and reliably deliver fuel. Is running duel fuel pumps the best way to go? What are people using in that regard?
3. Tuning – Dyno tune all the way on this one. I have a pretty reputable shop (Speed Inc.) that has significant experience in FI. They did a good job on my H/C car, and since I don’t really trust a mail/can tune option (living in Chicago we have our terrifying highs and dizzying lows in temperature conditions). I think the dyno tune with some street runs would be best.
4. Gauges – What should I be monitoring? Besides the obvious (boost), I want to have an eye on fuel pressure and probably IAT as well. Anything else? I’m looking at the AEM gauge that provides readouts for everything in the OBDII library, plus a boost, and fuel pressure gauge.
5. Meth injection – I have this one in the “maybe/later” pile. I would prefer my tuner to not incorporate Meth injection, so that if I add it later I’m just adding a layer of safety in keeping the IATs lower and preventing detonation.
6. 160 degree Stat - Any benefit to running lower temp and having the fans come on early?
So I’ll wrap this up before I ramble on about anything else. Did I miss anything? I’m really interested in hearing everyone’s experiences and insights on this. I’m looking forward to picking a direction and running with this project.

[Nvincent4708]

I'd go whipple.

1. Get the kit with the matched injectors. they're plenty for the kits.
2. Fuel pump. There are many people running a BAP, I doubt a company would warranty an item they know would fail. Someone else can chime in here.
3. Tuning. If you get the kit that comes with the tuner, it should be a good base tune until you get to a shop. But yes, dyno tune all the way.
4. A/F ratio is HUGE when running boosted, you wanna watch this along with everything else.
5. I don't know anything to chime in on this. so someone else feel free.

[GMRULZ]

Whipple w/ stock pulley, longtubes, cai, custom tune and stock size nitto 555 drag radials netted me 10.99@125.40 no other mods.

[WheelmanSS]

Added some stuff to the supporting mods.

[Revolution]

Supercharger
The decision here is screw vs centrifugal. Given that I am not chasing HP on the dyno, I am leaning towards the big players on the screw side.
1. TVS 2300 Really decent kit.. alot on the market alot on cars but eventually you will hit the wall with the blower for power as you will with any compressor.. in my experience hitting the wall comes faster when you do cam and heads and start making everything really flow to it's best potential, The TVS is a head and shoulders above the old high helix setups and the original radix but still has it's limts.

2. Whipple – I have mixed thoughts on it simply because the IAT sensor issue has finally come out in the open that the sensor installed is not switching in the pcm properly with their canned tunes and the observed IAT's are actually not what the blower is seeing under the baseplate. (however this is one of only two true twin screws KB is the other)

3. Vortech – Decent design, To me is the magnacharger of the centrifugal world. It's packaged nice has decent potential but when it comes to having limits on the head units you have to upgrade pretty quick when you start spinning them harder and making big power. Air to water still is not personally my preferred way of doing the heat exchange, Being you are from my home town I know first hand how nice they feel 2 seasons of the year but when you are dealing with heat and humidity that air to water is not doing the work as well as an air to air when things get muggy. Ice boxes are only a temporary fix with this.

4. Procharger – Usually I lean pretty heavy on procharger. I was one of the few distributors in Illinois besides ASSC before I relocated to Las Vegas. I love the product I love the options available. I know first hand if you are talking about growing on your platform they allready have several options available as well as running air to air and being able to run a dedicated cog for a great price it's a win win in my eyes when you want to really twist it up.

Supporting Mods
1. Injectors – Obviously fuel is a huge issue as far as what your end horsepower goals are, Size them accordingly, if you get an out of the box kit and you choose to go with a "tuner kit" basically providing your own fueling and calibration I would work with whomever is going to be doing the calibration to get you in the neighborhood to fuel your project with the end limts. Take into mind the really big injectors for some calibrators get messy they have issues getting them to flow correctly at lower speeds because of their size. Choose your path carefully *research research research*

2. Fuel Pump –Boost a pumps are a good option for some folks at certain power levels. In my opinion if you ever ever plan on running race fuel e85 or anything of the varriant, You need to fuel it with at least 30-40% above what your power goal will be. When it comes to making huge power you can really never have too much fuel. I really like that aeromotive is making a setup for the cars as well as LPE there are some very good options out there and what's nice is once you pick a path if you want you can take the build in stages, Do the fuel system first drive the car aspirated with the upgrades then do your boost as you can afford it.

3. Tuning – I have mixed emotions on the shop you mentioned, I won't say anything bad or anything good I will leave it at that. I take care of my own calibrations my best advice there is do your homework there as well. I know of at least 2 eddy current dyno's in the Chicagoland area both guys are good friends of mine when the time comes I can give you their info because I don't believe they sponsor the forum Just remember with boost you want the best dyno time available steady state tuning as well as WOT then get it out on the street and make sure everything is playing nice.

4. Gauges – Couple options are available for the cars, Clearly the aeroforce gauges offer a good option of being able to use analog inputs to log wideband and see positive crankcase pressure with the appropriate tune and map sensor, I would stay stern on a fuel pressure gauge and a boost/vac gauge at the bare minimum. Some people I tell them widebands can be their best friend or their worst enemy when they are not calibrators themselves. The best sensor in the world will show real time fluctuation in AFR and if you don't know all the reasons why it goes from 19.0 to 9.0 it will make you leary of the outcome. IF you have a rock solid tune and it's knocked in perfect by your calibrator the afr should always be spot on unless you fail on a sensor that will ultimately cause other issues and that on it's own will bring you to question the health of your car.

5. Meth injection – I personally would not waste my time if this is a street driven car then I would go ahead and size up for E85 since it's available in the chicagoland area and watch your power go up and not worry about needing a chemical intercooler. Meth should never be used to up octane in my opinion there is no substitute for the real thing.

6. 160 degree Stat - I have done some research since because the ls3 is really designed to run up over 190 there is a small benefit to the 160 stat and with forced induction I would definitely lean towards it. I know in aspirated cars it does not show as big of a gain as the earlier gen 3's do.

I hope that helps and if I can ever shine any light on anything feel free to hit me up. I have had many a boosted vehicle in the Chicago area growing up there and spent alot of time at The Grove as well as Byron and Route 66

[WheelmanSS]

Wow.... Thank you so much Revolution for that very detailed and thorough response. This was really what I was hoping for in this thread and I appreciate your perspective.

I can see that we are on the same page, especially that you are familiar with the "wonderful" (?) weather we experience in Chicago. IAT range is a concern with the large temperature ranges and inconsistencies we experience. Being a Procharger fan at heart, this is a bit of the direction I am leaning. The Air-to-Air intercooling seems like a good solution.

The Procharger also seems to offer the best expanding possibilities and I shouldn't "run out of blower" before other models mentioned in my post. Safety and reliability are my most concerning areas, with expansion right behind that.

I appreciate other's feedback.

[Revolution]

No problem!

I grew up there and lived in Chicago until 2007 when I started making the move to Vegas. I spent many a night at the grove in humidity central with a procharged silverado as well as aspirated and turbos. It's a good place to go fast you just need to get everything working in your favor. Drop me a line if you want when you are ready to pull the trigger I am sure I can help you out with a procharger if you head that road.

[WheelmanSS]

Stll looking for input... Any info from vendors on the Procharger price increase?

[pyr0b0y]

Have you thuoght about the PLX gauges for monitoring your IATs, boost, fuel pressure/oil pressure, etc?

http://www.plxdevices.com/gauges.php

[BlownChevy]

Originally Posted by WheelmanSS

Stll looking for input... Any info from vendors on the Procharger price increase?

I would highly suggest the Magnuson System for several reasons.

1) Proven Performance
2) Pillar in the supercharger arena
3) Ease of installation
4) Customer Support
5) Utilizes EATON Technology that is durability tested

If you are interested in receiving a quote please give us a call 818-998-1975.

Brian

[jrpxxii]

Procharger is what I went with for the very reason it gives you room for improvement in the future. If your just wanting a fun street car then go with the Whipple. All of these blowers are great as I also had a TVS2300 but I wanted more power and more top end as it is all low-mid torque and fun to drive but just wasnt for me. Now I have the Procharger F1-R and it delivers everything I was looking for.

[Detoxx03]

I would go with the Procharger without a doubt.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by WheelmanSS

Hey yo,
I’m in the process of putting together a supercharger setup for my 2010 SS, and I wanted to make an all-encompassing thread to cover my project from soup to nuts. I know a lot of these items have been compared and contrasted to death, but I want to put it all together. I know everyone is going to have their opinions based on their experiences, but I think that, coupled with vendor feedback if they chose to chime in, can build a productive thread.
A little background: In the past, I’ve built a cam-only, big suspension car, and a heads/cam horsepower/torque beast. The only things I still want to accomplish is an FI setup or a big CI motor, and given this motor is fresh as a daisy, I think it’s time for the FI setup.
My goals: I’m not chasing HP on the dyno. I want a reliable street car with occasional strip visits. My car only has full exhaust now (Kooks Stepped long tubes, magnaflow cat-back) and I’ll be adding more suspension mods (just a hotchkis chassis brace currently) as I go. I would be very happy with 550 reliable RWHP. I will definitely go conservative on tuning and would rather have more supporting mods for higher HP than actual HP itself. The stock motor specs are designed for N/A, so I don't want to push the limits by going all out with FI. A few years down the road, when I can do a new motor designed for FI, the goals will certainly change.
So let’s dig in…
Supercharger
The decision here is screw vs centrifugal. Given that I am not chasing HP on the dyno, I am leaning towards the big players on the screw side.
1. TVS 2300 – Reputable, well-known, familiar, proven gains, low-end power. This is the common option and has great torque curve and also potential for growth.
2. Whipple – Good upper-range power, potentially higher overall HP up top, reliable. Against the TVS 2300, some say this makes better upper RPM power. It also seems to have good IAT ranges.
3. Vortech – Good intercooler setup, more HP potential, and more noise! From what I read, Vortech has a great cooling design for comfortable IATs, and room to grow with more HP up top.
4. Procharger – Familiar, big power range, noisy, and customizable. I can’t get ATI out of my head since I always wanted one in my LS1 days. Great power and I love the whine sound, but reliability is a question mark, and the D1SC is not in a comprehensive kit, not sure if that is a pro or con.
Supporting Mods
1. Injectors – It looks like many of the kits include these, but how high do you want to go? For my application, it seems like whatever comes out of the box will have enough duty cycle to support my needs. Is that true? Any lb-per-hour I want to target?
2. Fuel Pump – The BAP (boost-a-pump) makes me raise an eyebrow. Pumping more voltage into a stock fuel pump doesn’t sound like the best way to safely and reliably deliver fuel. Is running duel fuel pumps the best way to go? What are people using in that regard?
3. Tuning – Dyno tune all the way on this one. I have a pretty reputable shop (Speed Inc.) that has significant experience in FI. They did a good job on my H/C car, and since I don’t really trust a mail/can tune option (living in Chicago we have our terrifying highs and dizzying lows in temperature conditions). I think the dyno tune with some street runs would be best.
4. Gauges – What should I be monitoring? Besides the obvious (boost), I want to have an eye on fuel pressure and probably IAT as well. Anything else? I’m looking at the AEM gauge that provides readouts for everything in the OBDII library, plus a boost, and fuel pressure gauge.
5. Meth injection – I have this one in the “maybe/later” pile. I would prefer my tuner to not incorporate Meth injection, so that if I add it later I’m just adding a layer of safety in keeping the IATs lower and preventing detonation.
6. 160 degree Stat - Any benefit to running lower temp and having the fans come on early?
So I’ll wrap this up before I ramble on about anything else. Did I miss anything? I’m really interested in hearing everyone’s experiences and insights on this. I’m looking forward to picking a direction and running with this project.

I see your not chasing a number but you must decide on a Number so we can properly fit you with all the right components to fit your needs.

Auto or Manual?

Do you Like Lots of Low End power or a More Linear power increase which is easier on drive train parts and easier to maintain Traction.

The Vortech Centrifugal is an extremely Strong Well made and lots of room to grow system, The YSI is Happy at 600 RWHP to 1050 RWHP and IS the Most efficient Supercharger in this HP CATEGORY.

By the Way the Vortech has the Largest Air to Air Intercooler Standard in any kit available rated at 1200+ HP.

I will put my Email Custom tunes against any dyno tune in the country, having successfully tuned over 600 2010/11 Camaros alone, for all weather and elevations from all over the USA to Brazil to Alaska to Hawaii to Germany to Dubai and beyond.

I can put together a 100% complete detailed proven package, including custom tune to meet or exceed your goals, and leave room to grow.

Ted.

[Gotthat02fire]

Can not recomend Jannetty Racing and Ted and his crew enough to anyone on Camaro5!!! He is the man trust me I know!!!!

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

I see your not chasing a number but you must decide on a Number so we can properly fit you with all the right components to fit your needs.

Auto or Manual?

Do you Like Lots of Low End power or a More Linear power increase which is easier on drive train parts and easier to maintain Traction.

The Vortech Centrifugal is an extremely Strong Well made and lots of room to grow system, The YSI is Happy at 600 RWHP to 1050 RWHP and IS the Most efficient Supercharger in this HP CATEGORY.

By the Way the Vortech has the Largest Air to Air Intercooler Standard in any kit available rated at 1200+ HP.

I will put my Email Custom tunes against any dyno tune in the country, having successfully tuned over 600 2010/11 Camaros alone, for all weather and elevations from all over the USA to Brazil to Alaska to Hawaii to Germany to Dubai and beyond.

I can put together a 100% complete detailed proven package, including custom tune to meet or exceed your goals, and leave room to grow.

Ted.