QUICK BUCK OR UNHAPPY - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

SCOTT430 · 05-18-2012, 07:40 AM

Right now 14 ZL1's for sale on ebay. Some dealers some private

htron50 · 05-18-2012, 08:01 AM

QB

toddsZL1 · 05-18-2012, 08:25 AM

Dealers that are marking up these cars is not right. There is a MSRP number for a reason. Hopefully GM is keeping a eye the dealers that are doing this and they will not recieve any allocations for MY2013.

justa25thTA · 05-18-2012, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toddsZL1

Dealers that are marking up these cars is not right. There is a MSRP number for a reason. Hopefully GM is keeping a eye the dealers that are doing this and they will not recieve any allocations for MY2013.

but you don't mind paying under msrp do you? its called a free market, you don't like the price, don't buy it.

The Stig · 05-18-2012, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toddsZL1

Dealers that are marking up these cars is not right. There is a MSRP number for a reason. Hopefully GM is keeping a eye the dealers that are doing this and they will not recieve any allocations for MY2013.

I doubt that will happen. Its simple supply and demand. When demand for an item is high and the supply is low vendors will raise the price simply because people are willing to pay it.

While I would never buy a car at over MSRP, some people could care less about an extra 4 or 5 grand. Especially if they really want the car. If someone is willing to pay above MSRP then why shouldnt the dealers charge more?

2012ZL1 · 05-18-2012, 09:30 AM

While i guess they are allowed to do so, I would sugest that dealers that do this are profit oriented and not customer oriented.
This will extend to their care and customer service level which will be below stellar.

Always steer clear of greedy business people, as they will try to empty your pockets every chance they get.
Its also usually a sign of poor business practices and/or over salaried top end or too many family members on the payroll, or trying to fund another venture or business from the dealership income.

It is wrong, and an MSRP has always been a "retail" price or a place to start or offer down from.
Dealers who mark up special vehicles SHOULD be banned from receiving any more specialty vehicles in the future, as this would curb the practice.
IMHO they are unscrupulous and I personally would never deal with any, and in fact I would recommend everyone boycott and badmouth such dealers any chance they get.

joey0480 · 05-18-2012, 09:32 AM

Take a look at the markup on the evos in the past....it was bound to happen.

fbodfather · 05-19-2012, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toddsZL1

Dealers that are marking up these cars is not right. There is a MSRP number for a reason. Hopefully GM is keeping a eye the dealers that are doing this and they will not recieve any allocations for MY2013.

While we do not condone such actions (charging over MSRP) -- we are prohibited by law from telling any dealer what he/she can charge for a new car or truck. It's called 'Anti-trust' and I've addressed it numerous times on tihs and other sites.

midnighter · 05-19-2012, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justa25thTA

but you don't mind paying under msrp do you? its called a free market, you don't like the price, don't buy it.

This is why I don't buy one.

oortcloud · 05-19-2012, 04:12 AM

What's interesting is that on the open bid auctions, the highest price for a ZL1 is currently $60,900. But the msrp for that particular car is $60,729.

http://www.chevrolet.com/tools/windo...FJ1EP1C9801073

I guess its too early to tell. But unless those auctions start bidding up higher, it indicates that paying $5k markups to a dealer is not a good deal.

XxxREAPERxxX · 05-19-2012, 10:15 AM

Being fairly new to the site, and not wanting to start an argument.... I would like to pose a question/counterpoint.

"What if a dealer was not able to receive an allocation, told the customer the truth, but wanted to be a good customer service oriented dealer, and could secure an allocation from another dealer half way across the country? After making repeated attempts, since no one had spoken for it due to Chevy not having released the MSRP and were not yet taking orders, my dealer was able to "trade" for it.....and NOW they charged a markup because they literally had to buy the car from another dealer....

1)Would the first dealer be the jerks or scammers for charging MY dealer a fee?
2)Would my dealer be the jerks for not giving me a car for less than they paid?"
3)Would I be considered naive and dumb for trying to be a good repeat customer and supporting my dealer that has helped me over the years?

I guess my point is this... The truth of the matter is that even though there are many dealers like those on this forum that had allocations, had volume, and had contacts and info from the beginning that were able to sell at MSRP for great customers with a great history, the sad fact is that there was not and IS NOT ENOUGH TO GO AROUND so of course dealers are gonna charge more. Is it illegal?...no... Unethical? Maybe... Punishable?? Definitely not....

Trust me, I have had a LOT of bad dealer experiences cause they just don't care.
I'm a dentist and I have dedicated my life to customer service and care in a profession that people hate! I am blessed to have a booming practice but it takes hard work. I bend over backward for people, do charity, adjust fees, do free stuff, work late, invest in new tech to make things easier for my patients, etc and I try not to make a big deal.. I do it cause I love it and I think it makes a difference... just to make someone's life and experience a little bit better makes it worth while. Now, as we all know.... Most dentists suck and THEY couldn't care less!
"Drill em', fill em', and bill em'!!!!!". But that isn't me or my office. But I still have to charge. I dont try to gouge but equipment is expensive, materials are even worse, and I couldn't do it without my staff, and last time I checked they can't work for free either!

!!!! But I have always been told by my patients that they can see how much we care so when I am forced to charge more if something weird or unusual comes up, they never complain... Well... Almost never

!!!!!

To wrap things up, I suppose I feel bad, maybe even embarrassed to admit I paid over MSRP. I just really didn't know what else to do. I live in Michigan so you guys can imagine how hard it was to even get a ZL1! Every dealer had a spoken for allocation by last November!!! I was 4th or 5th on every list with every dealer I called!

Thankfully, I had bought a couple of cars from a large dealer in Indiana, and they were very nice to me on the cars, charging me "under invoice pricing" whatever that means...( basically $4800 less than anywhere else I looked), and they wanted to help me get the car! But I knew there would be a markup since they did not receive an allocation. Which, on another note, I couldn't believe since they sell a TON of cars...( Anyway, different thread needed for understanding allocations

).

I just wanted to say that maybe it shouldn't be done, and in an ideal world it WOULDNT be done, but in this day of limited supply and demand, markups are here to stay. Wait till the 2013 mustangs come out!!!!

I just think we need to be careful in generalizing too much with this issue of markups. Not ALL dealers are convicted rapists... Some actually do care and go out of their way.... Even WITH a markup.

BTW. I love this site and many of you on here are responsible for me even having/getting aZL1!!!!

so thanks to you all for a great forum and thanks to the whole Camaro team and Fbodfather for all the info I got and making this car a reality for me!!!!!! See you guys on the road!!!

Sajonf · 05-19-2012, 11:03 AM

^^^ Great post!

oortcloud · 05-19-2012, 02:46 PM

I'm a strong believer in the free market system. When demand exceeds supply prices will rise. But this is why I was puzzled with the ebay prices. I expected these to be bidding up to near 5-10k above msrp. (I'm talking about the open bid auctions, not the fixed price ones.)

Although there are a lot of others factors to consider. Maybe people don't know about the auctions. Maybe someone is interested but they're too far away. Maybe it's not the right color, etc... But the upside to buying new from a dealer on ebay is that you get the car without waiting a long time.

Anyway, I'm just curious and thinking out loud. And speaking of markup, in Brazil the SS hardtop sells for about $100k in US dollars. (They list the price on the official chevrolet brazil website.) And yes, they do sell them at that price. So a 5k markup on a ZL1 is really not that bad!

daveagogo1 · 05-19-2012, 03:12 PM

There has never been a business in the history of the world that wasn't for profit. This is why they have designations called "not for profit" Or charity organizations.

Don't like the price. Buy elsewhere. Eventually the price will come down when they don't sell. This is nothing new and has been this way since the dawn of time. Supply and demand.

05-18-2012, 07:40 AM	#1
SCOTT430 Drives: 2013 ZL1 VERT Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 82	QUICK BUCK OR UNHAPPY Right now 14 ZL1's for sale on ebay. Some dealers some private

05-18-2012, 09:32 AM	#7
joey0480 Drives: 2013 Evo X Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: New Jersey Posts: 562	Take a look at the markup on the evos in the past....it was bound to happen. __________________ 2013 Evo X GSR (SSS, leather, exterior package)....stage 2 bro SOLD:Team L99 ADM Race Intake and Scoop Vmax Ported TB Borla-S axlebacks ARH 1 7/8 Long Tubes and Hi Flo Cats 160 Thermostat Pfdat front and rear sways and endlinks Gold Pearl Powdercoated calipers Gloss black CFD strut covers GM gill stripes ******** 12" Stealth Kicker Package

05-19-2012, 10:15 AM	#11
XxxREAPERxxX Drives: 2012 ZL1(soon!!!!), 2001 Z06 Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Michigan Posts: 25	Just another view point... Being fairly new to the site, and not wanting to start an argument.... I would like to pose a question/counterpoint. "What if a dealer was not able to receive an allocation, told the customer the truth, but wanted to be a good customer service oriented dealer, and could secure an allocation from another dealer half way across the country? After making repeated attempts, since no one had spoken for it due to Chevy not having released the MSRP and were not yet taking orders, my dealer was able to "trade" for it.....and NOW they charged a markup because they literally had to buy the car from another dealer.... 1)Would the first dealer be the jerks or scammers for charging MY dealer a fee? 2)Would my dealer be the jerks for not giving me a car for less than they paid?" 3)Would I be considered naive and dumb for trying to be a good repeat customer and supporting my dealer that has helped me over the years? I guess my point is this... The truth of the matter is that even though there are many dealers like those on this forum that had allocations, had volume, and had contacts and info from the beginning that were able to sell at MSRP for great customers with a great history, the sad fact is that there was not and IS NOT ENOUGH TO GO AROUND so of course dealers are gonna charge more. Is it illegal?...no... Unethical? Maybe... Punishable?? Definitely not.... Trust me, I have had a LOT of bad dealer experiences cause they just don't care. I'm a dentist and I have dedicated my life to customer service and care in a profession that people hate! I am blessed to have a booming practice but it takes hard work. I bend over backward for people, do charity, adjust fees, do free stuff, work late, invest in new tech to make things easier for my patients, etc and I try not to make a big deal.. I do it cause I love it and I think it makes a difference... just to make someone's life and experience a little bit better makes it worth while. Now, as we all know.... Most dentists suck and THEY couldn't care less! "Drill em', fill em', and bill em'!!!!!". But that isn't me or my office. But I still have to charge. I dont try to gouge but equipment is expensive, materials are even worse, and I couldn't do it without my staff, and last time I checked they can't work for free either! !!!! But I have always been told by my patients that they can see how much we care so when I am forced to charge more if something weird or unusual comes up, they never complain... Well... Almost never !!!!! To wrap things up, I suppose I feel bad, maybe even embarrassed to admit I paid over MSRP. I just really didn't know what else to do. I live in Michigan so you guys can imagine how hard it was to even get a ZL1! Every dealer had a spoken for allocation by last November!!! I was 4th or 5th on every list with every dealer I called! Thankfully, I had bought a couple of cars from a large dealer in Indiana, and they were very nice to me on the cars, charging me "under invoice pricing" whatever that means...( basically $4800 less than anywhere else I looked), and they wanted to help me get the car! But I knew there would be a markup since they did not receive an allocation. Which, on another note, I couldn't believe since they sell a TON of cars...( Anyway, different thread needed for understanding allocations ). I just wanted to say that maybe it shouldn't be done, and in an ideal world it WOULDNT be done, but in this day of limited supply and demand, markups are here to stay. Wait till the 2013 mustangs come out!!!! I just think we need to be careful in generalizing too much with this issue of markups. Not ALL dealers are convicted rapists... Some actually do care and go out of their way.... Even WITH a markup. BTW. I love this site and many of you on here are responsible for me even having/getting aZL1!!!! so thanks to you all for a great forum and thanks to the whole Camaro team and Fbodfather for all the info I got and making this car a reality for me!!!!!! See you guys on the road!!!

05-18-2012, 08:01 AM	#2
htron50 Drives: 2017 ZL1 Status "Thank You!" Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: SC Posts: 2,498	QB

05-18-2012, 08:25 AM	#3
toddsZL1 Drives: 2012 ZL1 IOM#1645 Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: SHAWANO,WI Posts: 398	Dealers that are marking up these cars is not right. There is a MSRP number for a reason. Hopefully GM is keeping a eye the dealers that are doing this and they will not recieve any allocations for MY2013.

05-18-2012, 09:30 AM	#6
2012ZL1 CaRaHoLiC Drives: '12 ZL1,67 Cam,68 Biscayne 427 4 sp Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 1,701	While i guess they are allowed to do so, I would sugest that dealers that do this are profit oriented and not customer oriented. This will extend to their care and customer service level which will be below stellar. Always steer clear of greedy business people, as they will try to empty your pockets every chance they get. Its also usually a sign of poor business practices and/or over salaried top end or too many family members on the payroll, or trying to fund another venture or business from the dealership income. It is wrong, and an MSRP has always been a "retail" price or a place to start or offer down from. Dealers who mark up special vehicles SHOULD be banned from receiving any more specialty vehicles in the future, as this would curb the practice. IMHO they are unscrupulous and I personally would never deal with any, and in fact I would recommend everyone boycott and badmouth such dealers any chance they get.

05-19-2012, 04:12 AM	#10
oortcloud Drives: 2013 ZL1 ordered Join Date: May 2012 Location: retired Posts: 153	What's interesting is that on the open bid auctions, the highest price for a ZL1 is currently $60,900. But the msrp for that particular car is $60,729. http://www.chevrolet.com/tools/windo...FJ1EP1C9801073 I guess its too early to tell. But unless those auctions start bidding up higher, it indicates that paying $5k markups to a dealer is not a good deal.

05-19-2012, 11:03 AM	#12
Sajonf Drives: 2014 Corvette Stingray Z51 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Independence, MO Posts: 108	^^^ Great post!

05-19-2012, 02:46 PM	#13
oortcloud Drives: 2013 ZL1 ordered Join Date: May 2012 Location: retired Posts: 153	I'm a strong believer in the free market system. When demand exceeds supply prices will rise. But this is why I was puzzled with the ebay prices. I expected these to be bidding up to near 5-10k above msrp. (I'm talking about the open bid auctions, not the fixed price ones.) Although there are a lot of others factors to consider. Maybe people don't know about the auctions. Maybe someone is interested but they're too far away. Maybe it's not the right color, etc... But the upside to buying new from a dealer on ebay is that you get the car without waiting a long time. Anyway, I'm just curious and thinking out loud. And speaking of markup, in Brazil the SS hardtop sells for about $100k in US dollars. (They list the price on the official chevrolet brazil website.) And yes, they do sell them at that price. So a 5k markup on a ZL1 is really not that bad!