Frustrated with GM & Dealers' Service - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

eckerj · 04-26-2010, 12:38 PM

Hello,

Thought I would vent a bit here on the forums.

I own a 2LT that has a number of problems. I just got back from a
dealer's service department this morning. The end result is that
they will not service anything that they cannot verify.

Allow me to explain some of the problems:

1) After work last Friday, I begin my commute home and hop onto
the expressway. I'm cruising down the road and glance down at my
analog speedo to find it reading 140mph. Holy Smoke! I quickly check
the digital readout and find I'm at 70mph. I get off the expressway and
find a secluded spot, stop, turn off the engine and find the needle stuck
at 60mph. I turn it off and on again a few more times and it finally
settled in, stuck at 20mph. I drove home, let the car sit in the shade
a few hours, started the car and it's functioning normally.

I did read a few posts here about how the needles can be put on a bit
too firmly and with sufficient heat, they begin to stick.

2) At the end of summer last year, as I'm returning from a trip from
Atlanta to Dallas, my air conditioning unit froze up. It was in the 90's
and the air output of the AC went almost to zero. I then turned the AC
off and turned the thermostat over to the red. A few moments later,
water started spitting out the center vents. After a few more minutes
of getting rained on inside my car, I decided to try the AC and it started
working again. It worked like that for a little while and then froze up
again.

3) Also on my trips back and forth to Atlanta, I heard some sort of rattle
coming from the climate control system. Sounds like something is loose
behind the dash, near the firewall. Nothing that affects the performance
of the car, but definitely annoying.

4) I closely watch the PDIM software update thread and know I'm a few
revs behind. Since I use my iPhone quite a bit and been having reboot
problems with it over the past several months, I thought I'd go in for an
update.

So, I bring my laundry list of issues to the dealer this morning. They tell
me that they cannot address #1 and #2 until they can see the problem in
action. I'm somewhat taken aback, since I thought the speedo problem
would be serious enough to warrant attention. Their position is basically
the problem doesn't exist unless they can verify it.

I decided I didn't want them to even look at the car to try and address
#3 or #4 since the main reason I came in was #1 and #2.

So now I'm stuck with having to hope that my car fails at the same time
as I can make it to a dealership so they can say "Yep, that's a problem."
With my 1 hour commute and most service centers closed shortly after
I get out of work, my chances of reproducing the problem and being able
to show them is slim to none.

Somehow, I feel that if I was still living in Michigan, I would be able to
get these fixed without much hassle.

Does anyone know of a service center in the Dallas area that cares
about their customers?

Frustrated,

-Joe

esperman · 04-26-2010, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eckerj

2) At the end of summer last year, as I'm returning from a trip from
Atlanta to Dallas, my air conditioning unit froze up. It was in the 90's
and the air output of the AC went almost to zero. I then turned the AC
off and turned the thermostat over to the red. A few moments later,
water started spitting out the center vents. After a few more minutes
of getting rained on inside my car, I decided to try the AC and it started
working again. It worked like that for a little while and then froze up
again.

maybe you should have had this looked at ASAP last year? maybe the dealer isn't taking you seriously because of it.

skuttduck · 04-26-2010, 12:58 PM

Check this thread out. http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71421

eckerj · 04-26-2010, 01:04 PM

Not having #2 checked out shouldn't have anything to do with them not
fixing #1.

By the time I was able to bring it to a dealership, the AC problem
wasn't rearing it's ugly head, so I basically would have been in the same
boat.

This attitude that service departments down here exude is pretty
nauseating. Only they know what's wrong, and if they can't see it,
it doesn't exist.

Of course, this is coming from the same region that makes people get
out of their car for an oil change at a quick-lube.

eckerj · 04-26-2010, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skuttduck

Check this thread out. http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71421

thanks! I'll give them a call!

Stingr69 · 04-26-2010, 01:27 PM

The A/C system appears to be indicating low pressure. The evaporator temp will go down so low that the heat exchanger will actually collect condensate and it will freeze on the coil. The coil can get so full of ice that it gets blocked and no air goes through it. The air flow will get real cold and then start spitting out water drops before it totaly gets blocked by ice. If you shut it off and wait a bit, the ice will melt and you will be back in business until the ice starts to collect again. This is hard on the system if you keep running it while the coil is iced up so have the refrigerant pressures checked. You may have a leak in the system.

-Mark.

*The_Blur* · 04-26-2010, 01:33 PM

Everyone needs to remember that dealerships are franchise-owned operations. GM does not own them and sets basic standards for them to operate. If you don't like the service department, send in your GM survey with low scores. GM will pay them according to their customer service. GM had nothing to do with your poor experience.

Find another dealer.

eckerj · 04-26-2010, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Blur

Everyone needs to remember that dealerships are franchise-owned operations. GM does not own them and sets basic standards for them to operate. If you don't like the service department, send in your GM survey with low scores. GM will pay them according to their customer service. GM had nothing to do with your poor experience.

Find another dealer.

It's true that bad experiences at dealerships shouldn't necessarily
reflect bad on the manufacturer. However, the dealer indicated
that the reason they could not fix two of my problems was because
GM instructed them not to repair items that were not verified by
the dealer as broken.

Was this just a line from the dealer? Probably. But it still reflects
poorly on GM.

eckerj · 04-26-2010, 04:08 PM

Update:

Just got off the phone with GM Customer Assistance and they said my only options
are:

1) Wait for the speedo and AC to fail and bring it in to the dealership to prove
that the problem exists

-or-

2) Drop it off at the dealership for 2 to 3 days so they can try and replicate the
problem.

Looks like I'm stuck with #1, since I would be the one to pay for a rental car,
and I refuse to pay for a rental in order to have my car fixed.

You want to know what's really sad? I now have to drive around with my AC blasting,
leaving my car sit in the sun, and hope and pray that these things fail on my car
AND that I'll be able to get it into a dealership while it's failing.

All this is completely unacceptable to me. So incredibly stressful. But what can
I do? Not a damn thing.

Eric Baker · 04-26-2010, 04:15 PM

Just an FYI. ALL dealers work like that. They can't fix your car no matter what brand unless they can verify that a problem exists. If they choose to fix a complaint going by the customers word, and it's found to not be the problem, they are out that money for whatever time/parts were needed. Nobody's willing to just lose money.

Michael_Js · 04-26-2010, 04:46 PM

Well, yes and no about all dealers are like that. I'm in the bunch of people having clutch issue - multiple threads. Took it to my dealer, we drove it, of course, it didn't stick. He said bring it back. I went in today, said the same thing, they looked it over, asked a few questions, I handed him a list of parts that other people have had replaced - NO TSB, mind you - and he is ordering parts today for an install as soon as they come in...

So...it depends on your relationship with your service person...etc...

good luck!

eckerj · 04-26-2010, 05:33 PM

Thanks...

I just can't afford (time and money) to take time off work to bring it
to the dealership so they can diagnose it. In the mean-time, I'll have
to resign myself to the fact that I'm a beta-tester for GM.

Never thought I'd come to the point of wishing things would fail on
my car every time I turn the ignition key. My luck, it'll only fail the day
after it's out of warranty.

jputer · 04-26-2010, 06:52 PM

The speedometer issue could be documented with a picture of your dash with the digital readout on "0" and the analog on anything else. Whip that iPhone out and get it while it is "abnormal".

On the A/C issue. R134A works at much higher pressures than the old R12. Sometimes hot, high humidity conditions will cause it to ice up the evaperator when you least expect it to. More of an ambient temp and humidity issue than a "low charge".

eckerj · 04-26-2010, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jputer

The speedometer issue could be documented with a picture of your dash with the digital readout on "0" and the analog on anything else. Whip that iPhone out and get it while it is "abnormal".

On the A/C issue. R134A works at much higher pressures than the old R12. Sometimes hot, high humidity conditions will cause it to ice up the evaperator when you least expect it to. More of an ambient temp and humidity issue than a "low charge".

Thanks for the suggestion! I'll definitely do that the next time it happens...
Now I gotta hope for some scorchingly sunny weather...

04-26-2010, 01:33 PM	#7
The_Blur Moderator Drives: 2018 Harley-Davidson Street Bob Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: San Diego Posts: 14,768	Everyone needs to remember that dealerships are franchise-owned operations. GM does not own them and sets basic standards for them to operate. If you don't like the service department, send in your GM survey with low scores. GM will pay them according to their customer service. GM had nothing to do with your poor experience. Find another dealer. __________________ RDP Motorsport//GEN5DIY//Cultrag Performance//JPSS//Rodgets Chevrolet// Operation Demon//Buy at Invoice//RACECARWEAR RESPECT ALL CARS. LOVE YOUR OWN. warn 145:159 ban

04-26-2010, 04:46 PM	#11
Michael_Js SoCal C5 Family Member Drives: 2010 Camaro SS/RS - Black w/IOM; 6M Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: San Diego, CA, USA Posts: 5,298 View My Garage	Well, yes and no about all dealers are like that. I'm in the bunch of people having clutch issue - multiple threads. Took it to my dealer, we drove it, of course, it didn't stick. He said bring it back. I went in today, said the same thing, they looked it over, asked a few questions, I handed him a list of parts that other people have had replaced - NO TSB, mind you - and he is ordering parts today for an install as soon as they come in... So...it depends on your relationship with your service person...etc... good luck! __________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 2010 Black 2SS/RS; 6M; IOM, GFX, sunroof; ADM Race CAI; Zoomers CB; Viper Alarm; Pdaft F&R sways, Adj Endlinks, Rtrailing arms, Camber kit, strut brace, Front Trailing Arm Bushing; SLP Skip-Shift Elim; Tinted lights/windows; Hurst Short-throw; LoJack; Door & Dash ABL Mods; ********; JBA Shorty headers; AACStyle LEDs; Stillen DS rotors, Hawk Ceramic pads; Havoc Blk Chrome wheels: 20x9s; Lingenfelter Blk Al Pedals; RevXtreme Catch Can; Goodridge SS lines; Ported TB; RK Sport hood; Hotchkis chassis brace; KW V3 coilovers;

04-26-2010, 06:52 PM	#13
jputer Drives: 2016 1LT Garnet Red Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Zellwood, FL Posts: 126	The speedometer issue could be documented with a picture of your dash with the digital readout on "0" and the analog on anything else. Whip that iPhone out and get it while it is "abnormal". On the A/C issue. R134A works at much higher pressures than the old R12. Sometimes hot, high humidity conditions will cause it to ice up the evaperator when you least expect it to. More of an ambient temp and humidity issue than a "low charge". __________________ 2011 1LT/RS Summit White A6

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04-26-2010, 12:38 PM	#1
eckerj Drives: 2010 Camaro 2LT Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 33	Frustrated with GM & Dealers' Service Hello, Thought I would vent a bit here on the forums. I own a 2LT that has a number of problems. I just got back from a dealer's service department this morning. The end result is that they will not service anything that they cannot verify. Allow me to explain some of the problems: 1) After work last Friday, I begin my commute home and hop onto the expressway. I'm cruising down the road and glance down at my analog speedo to find it reading 140mph. Holy Smoke! I quickly check the digital readout and find I'm at 70mph. I get off the expressway and find a secluded spot, stop, turn off the engine and find the needle stuck at 60mph. I turn it off and on again a few more times and it finally settled in, stuck at 20mph. I drove home, let the car sit in the shade a few hours, started the car and it's functioning normally. I did read a few posts here about how the needles can be put on a bit too firmly and with sufficient heat, they begin to stick. 2) At the end of summer last year, as I'm returning from a trip from Atlanta to Dallas, my air conditioning unit froze up. It was in the 90's and the air output of the AC went almost to zero. I then turned the AC off and turned the thermostat over to the red. A few moments later, water started spitting out the center vents. After a few more minutes of getting rained on inside my car, I decided to try the AC and it started working again. It worked like that for a little while and then froze up again. 3) Also on my trips back and forth to Atlanta, I heard some sort of rattle coming from the climate control system. Sounds like something is loose behind the dash, near the firewall. Nothing that affects the performance of the car, but definitely annoying. 4) I closely watch the PDIM software update thread and know I'm a few revs behind. Since I use my iPhone quite a bit and been having reboot problems with it over the past several months, I thought I'd go in for an update. So, I bring my laundry list of issues to the dealer this morning. They tell me that they cannot address #1 and #2 until they can see the problem in action. I'm somewhat taken aback, since I thought the speedo problem would be serious enough to warrant attention. Their position is basically the problem doesn't exist unless they can verify it. I decided I didn't want them to even look at the car to try and address #3 or #4 since the main reason I came in was #1 and #2. So now I'm stuck with having to hope that my car fails at the same time as I can make it to a dealership so they can say "Yep, that's a problem." With my 1 hour commute and most service centers closed shortly after I get out of work, my chances of reproducing the problem and being able to show them is slim to none. Somehow, I feel that if I was still living in Michigan, I would be able to get these fixed without much hassle. Does anyone know of a service center in the Dallas area that cares about their customers? Frustrated, -Joe

04-26-2010, 12:58 PM	#3
skuttduck Drives: 2010 RJT 2LT Camaro Join Date: May 2009 Location: East Lansing, MI Posts: 2,529	Check this thread out. http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71421

04-26-2010, 01:04 PM	#4
eckerj Drives: 2010 Camaro 2LT Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 33	Not having #2 checked out shouldn't have anything to do with them not fixing #1. By the time I was able to bring it to a dealership, the AC problem wasn't rearing it's ugly head, so I basically would have been in the same boat. This attitude that service departments down here exude is pretty nauseating. Only they know what's wrong, and if they can't see it, it doesn't exist. Of course, this is coming from the same region that makes people get out of their car for an oil change at a quick-lube.

04-26-2010, 01:27 PM	#6
Stingr69 '69 Owned Since '79 Drives: '69 Z/28 LeMans Blue w/White Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: LR AR Posts: 1,848 View My Garage	The A/C system appears to be indicating low pressure. The evaporator temp will go down so low that the heat exchanger will actually collect condensate and it will freeze on the coil. The coil can get so full of ice that it gets blocked and no air goes through it. The air flow will get real cold and then start spitting out water drops before it totaly gets blocked by ice. If you shut it off and wait a bit, the ice will melt and you will be back in business until the ice starts to collect again. This is hard on the system if you keep running it while the coil is iced up so have the refrigerant pressures checked. You may have a leak in the system. -Mark.

04-26-2010, 04:08 PM	#9
eckerj Drives: 2010 Camaro 2LT Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 33	Update: Just got off the phone with GM Customer Assistance and they said my only options are: 1) Wait for the speedo and AC to fail and bring it in to the dealership to prove that the problem exists -or- 2) Drop it off at the dealership for 2 to 3 days so they can try and replicate the problem. Looks like I'm stuck with #1, since I would be the one to pay for a rental car, and I refuse to pay for a rental in order to have my car fixed. You want to know what's really sad? I now have to drive around with my AC blasting, leaving my car sit in the sun, and hope and pray that these things fail on my car AND that I'll be able to get it into a dealership while it's failing. All this is completely unacceptable to me. So incredibly stressful. But what can I do? Not a damn thing.

04-26-2010, 04:15 PM	#10
Eric Baker Drives: Black/Black 2SS/RS 6M Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Boston MA Posts: 987 View My Garage	Just an FYI. ALL dealers work like that. They can't fix your car no matter what brand unless they can verify that a problem exists. If they choose to fix a complaint going by the customers word, and it's found to not be the problem, they are out that money for whatever time/parts were needed. Nobody's willing to just lose money.

04-26-2010, 05:33 PM	#12
eckerj Drives: 2010 Camaro 2LT Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 33	Thanks... I just can't afford (time and money) to take time off work to bring it to the dealership so they can diagnose it. In the mean-time, I'll have to resign myself to the fact that I'm a beta-tester for GM. Never thought I'd come to the point of wishing things would fail on my car every time I turn the ignition key. My luck, it'll only fail the day after it's out of warranty.