AirRaid CAI causes 20HP *loss*???? - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

convert · 02-20-2010, 12:36 PM

Ok, so I'm really, really confused. This doesn't pass the sniff test for me.

On Trifecta's front page, talking about the tune they did on the LLT, it says:

Quote:

Peak gains were 24HP and 17TQ at the wheels, almost a 10% gain. The car was bone stock other than an AirRaid intake.

But then, over in this post by nallen00 (who I believe is quoting Vince from Trifecta) it says

Quote:

So, the modifications installed on the car caused it to *lose* up to 20HP+ which we were able to gain back (and perhaps then some) by adjusting the tune for the modifications.

Connecting the dots I'm forced to conclude that they're saying the AirRaid caused a 20HP+ *loss*, and they were able to reclaim it with the tune.

Please, somebody show me how I'm misunderstanding this, because I'm left to

-- I mean why would anyone plunk down $300 on the CAI just to lose 20HP, and then throw more cash at a tune to fix it?

2010 SSRS · 02-20-2010, 12:40 PM

Something don't sound right.

KMPrenger · 02-20-2010, 12:46 PM

Theres no way the AirRaid caused a 20+ drop in power...that would be a noticeable drop and there would not be nearly the amount of positive comments about that CAI as there has been.

Also, if you actually look at the original dyno sheet of that Trifecta test car, its final output was shown to be in the 270s I believe (can't remember exact number). So if it had gained 20+ horses, that would put it in the 250 range before the tune.

Now, from what we've seen on this site, most stock V6 cars are lucky to get around 240 - 245 HP (manuals may get you into the 260s)...so if he started in the 250 range, I'd say thats about right. Ending up with 270 something is pretty dang good if you ask me.

That said, I'm still not fully convinced that the CAI really gives much of a boost in power. You may likely feel a small change in throttle response perhaps?...but I could be completely wrong since I don't own one. Just passing on what Ive read.

But lose power? No way that'd happen unless it really threw off the cars intake mixture bad.

blueallie · 02-20-2010, 12:46 PM

Very interesting. Mmmmmmmmmm...

Silver ice SS · 02-20-2010, 12:48 PM

Awwww man! And I just bought an airaid cai.... Somebody chime in on this please...

SSOOCH · 02-20-2010, 12:49 PM

Something ain't right. Hopefully David from Airaid can comment. FYI I love my AIRAID!!!

convert · 02-20-2010, 01:13 PM

KMPrenger, you're right -- pre-tune (with CAI) the car was at 248RWHP, after the tune it was 272 -- here's the link on trifecta's site: http://www.trifectaperformance.com/D...aroLLTDyno.jpg.

Silver ice SS -- there have been so many positive reports by CAI owners that I have a hard time believing it could be a detriment. And you have the SS, so that's a different beast anyway.

Here's AirRaid's dyno sheet for reference: http://www.airaid.com/Documents/Dyno...0-242_dyno.jpg.

ROD1 · 02-20-2010, 01:21 PM

He is trying to say that adding the airaid without a tune caused thae car to lose up to 20+ horsepower (which is absolute bs) due to altering the fuel mixture. Stock at most is 250 hp. IMHO. My very unproffesional take is that it prolly didnt do squat putting it on without a tune due to the fact the stock Camaro is tuned to the max from the factory but once they let the computer know it was there and to compensate the mixture forit, gains were found. So yeah, if ya get a cai , get a tune or save ur money......again this is what I think and that dont usually count for much. Also raising the hood can gain ya about 9hp lol....just sayin, not sayin this is the case.

SlingShot · 02-20-2010, 02:03 PM

So if I get this right, less than 25 BHp will run close to $1000 ... Not really worth it if you ask me ...

butterfingers · 02-20-2010, 02:21 PM

Now wait just a sec ... first of all .. it's all BS. I have a 2LT/RS Auto with this CAI system. Once installed, it takes about 3 weeks to fully relearn the airflow mix. Then you begin to hear, and feel the difference in a positive way.

All this talk about tuning the 2LT is bogus for the simple fact that ... NOBODY to date has broken the code to tune the V6 .. now the V8, you can tune that baby all day long, but not the V6 for they are still trying to break the code on that. The latest I have heard was that there has been only 1 company that is close .. very close to coming out with a tune for the V6 but have not yet released it.

So the bottom line ... I can not speak for the V8 for the loss in HP without tune, but as far as the V6 ... its BS

My guess is ... who ever breaks the code and can give us V6 owners at least 15 to 30 more HP .... then they are gonna make a mint.

ROD1 · 02-20-2010, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by butterfingers

Now wait just a sec ... first of all .. it's all BS. I have a 2LT/RS Auto with this CAI system. Once installed, it takes about 3 weeks to fully relearn the airflow mix. Then you begin to hear, and feel the difference in a positive way.

All this talk about tuning the 2LT is bogus for the simple fact that ... NOBODY to date has broken the code to tune the V6 .. now the V8, you can tune that baby all day long, but not the V6 for they are still trying to break the code on that. The latest I have heard was that there has been only 1 company that is close .. very close to coming out with a tune for the V6 but have not yet released it.

So the bottom line ... I can not speak for the V8 for the loss in HP without tune, but as far as the V6 ... its BS

My guess is ... who ever breaks the code and can give us V6 owners at least 15 to 30 more HP .... then they are gonna make a mint.

The car in question was in fact tuned by Trifecta and dyno results are here. You are right in that the tuning is on going but that particular cai is on a stock vehicle was tuned.

Richiethekid · 02-20-2010, 02:43 PM

I think its a different measure - that's off the wheel horsepower as opposed to flywheel horsepower - I think you are getting a 14 odd hp gain under any circumstance.

ROD1 · 02-20-2010, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlingShot

So if I get this right, less than 25 BHp will run close to $1000 ... Not really worth it if you ask me ...

Sorta. If you were gonna get just a cai and tune it, your lookin at at least $800 but the tune (when its done) will also be used for any other bolt ons you wanna throw on. My guess is 20whp with the right Cai!

butterfingers · 02-20-2010, 02:51 PM

Airaid so far has the best for the V6 ... great quality and from what I heard, their R&D department I'm sure put more time into this baby then most do. What ever loss they had, I'm sure was a anomaly for it would not make any sense that if you are gaining more air in ... the better your engine will breath.
With that said, this air has to come out somewhere .. so now get yourself a magnaflow catback system and push all that air out and with that combo .. you should gain at least 20 to 25 hp.

02-20-2010, 12:46 PM	#3
KMPrenger Drives: 16 Camaro SS, 15 Colorado Join Date: May 2009 Location: Jefferson City, Missouri Posts: 13,967	Theres no way the AirRaid caused a 20+ drop in power...that would be a noticeable drop and there would not be nearly the amount of positive comments about that CAI as there has been. Also, if you actually look at the original dyno sheet of that Trifecta test car, its final output was shown to be in the 270s I believe (can't remember exact number). So if it had gained 20+ horses, that would put it in the 250 range before the tune. Now, from what we've seen on this site, most stock V6 cars are lucky to get around 240 - 245 HP (manuals may get you into the 260s)...so if he started in the 250 range, I'd say thats about right. Ending up with 270 something is pretty dang good if you ask me. That said, I'm still not fully convinced that the CAI really gives much of a boost in power. You may likely feel a small change in throttle response perhaps?...but I could be completely wrong since I don't own one. Just passing on what Ive read. But lose power? No way that'd happen unless it really threw off the cars intake mixture bad. __________________ 2016 Camaro 1SS - 8-speed - NPP - Black bowties 2010 Camaro 1LT V6 (Sold. I will miss her!)

02-20-2010, 12:49 PM	#6
SSOOCH Camaro SL,UTs Drives: 2010 Camaro SS/RS #16429 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: South Jordan, UT Posts: 7,357 View My Garage	Something ain't right. Hopefully David from Airaid can comment. FYI I love my AIRAID!!! __________________

02-20-2010, 01:21 PM	#8
ROD1 Retired Drives: 2010 Camaro RS V6 #1301 DOB 3/23/09 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Ithaca NY Posts: 2,563	He is trying to say that adding the airaid without a tune caused thae car to lose up to 20+ horsepower (which is absolute bs) due to altering the fuel mixture. Stock at most is 250 hp. IMHO. My very unproffesional take is that it prolly didnt do squat putting it on without a tune due to the fact the stock Camaro is tuned to the max from the factory but once they let the computer know it was there and to compensate the mixture forit, gains were found. So yeah, if ya get a cai , get a tune or save ur money......again this is what I think and that dont usually count for much. Also raising the hood can gain ya about 9hp lol....just sayin, not sayin this is the case. Last edited by ROD1; 02-20-2010 at 01:39 PM.

02-20-2010, 02:03 PM	#9
SlingShot Drives: 2012 ZL1 - #670 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Seminole, Fl. Posts: 8,009	So if I get this right, less than 25 BHp will run close to $1000 ... Not really worth it if you ask me ... __________________

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02-20-2010, 12:40 PM	#2
2010 SSRS Drives: 3 V8 Camaros Join Date: May 2009 Location: The Ocean State Posts: 111,186 View My Garage	Something don't sound right.

02-20-2010, 12:46 PM	#4
blueallie Drives: Abm 1ss/rs 6m Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Va Posts: 212	Very interesting. Mmmmmmmmmm...

02-20-2010, 12:48 PM	#5
Silver ice SS Drives: Silver ice Metallic 2SS/RS Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 333	Awwww man! And I just bought an airaid cai.... Somebody chime in on this please...

02-20-2010, 01:13 PM	#7
convert Drives: the Camaro as often as possible Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Kent, WA Posts: 136	KMPrenger, you're right -- pre-tune (with CAI) the car was at 248RWHP, after the tune it was 272 -- here's the link on trifecta's site: http://www.trifectaperformance.com/D...aroLLTDyno.jpg. Silver ice SS -- there have been so many positive reports by CAI owners that I have a hard time believing it could be a detriment. And you have the SS, so that's a different beast anyway. Here's AirRaid's dyno sheet for reference: http://www.airaid.com/Documents/Dyno...0-242_dyno.jpg.

02-20-2010, 02:21 PM	#10
butterfingers Drives: Rally Yellow Camaro 2LT/RS Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Frisco Posts: 588	Now wait just a sec ... first of all .. it's all BS. I have a 2LT/RS Auto with this CAI system. Once installed, it takes about 3 weeks to fully relearn the airflow mix. Then you begin to hear, and feel the difference in a positive way. All this talk about tuning the 2LT is bogus for the simple fact that ... NOBODY to date has broken the code to tune the V6 .. now the V8, you can tune that baby all day long, but not the V6 for they are still trying to break the code on that. The latest I have heard was that there has been only 1 company that is close .. very close to coming out with a tune for the V6 but have not yet released it. So the bottom line ... I can not speak for the V8 for the loss in HP without tune, but as far as the V6 ... its BS My guess is ... who ever breaks the code and can give us V6 owners at least 15 to 30 more HP .... then they are gonna make a mint.

02-20-2010, 02:43 PM	#12
Richiethekid Drives: 2010 Camaro Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Oside Posts: 1	I think its a different measure - that's off the wheel horsepower as opposed to flywheel horsepower - I think you are getting a 14 odd hp gain under any circumstance.

02-20-2010, 02:51 PM	#14
butterfingers Drives: Rally Yellow Camaro 2LT/RS Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Frisco Posts: 588	Airaid so far has the best for the V6 ... great quality and from what I heard, their R&D department I'm sure put more time into this baby then most do. What ever loss they had, I'm sure was a anomaly for it would not make any sense that if you are gaining more air in ... the better your engine will breath. With that said, this air has to come out somewhere .. so now get yourself a magnaflow catback system and push all that air out and with that combo .. you should gain at least 20 to 25 hp.