Thin paint? - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

Falundir · 09-06-2012, 12:21 PM

I recently had my car detailed and the detailer mentioned that the paint on my car is very thin.

Do we have any documentation as to how thick factory paint should be, and how to go about verifying this on my car?

jrisebo · 09-07-2012, 07:58 AM

How did he know it was thin?

chef-beavis · 09-07-2012, 08:35 AM

If the color is thin, he's seeing through edges under his shop lighting. If the clear is thin, he's not telling you where he burnt through an edge somewhere. The paint on all factory cars is thin. Has been since I was working in the dealership body shops in the late 80's. The factory puts it on with robots that are more even, as well as under much more controlled conditions than the aftermarket. It allows them to get away with way less film build and emissions. Unfortunately, it is also much less forgiving for buffing and such.

motorhead · 09-07-2012, 09:24 AM

I'm not impressed with any manufacturer's paint these days. I don't worry about because I'm lucky to have a car for more than two years anyhow.

babytiger · 09-07-2012, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falundir

I recently had my car detailed and the detailer mentioned that the paint on my car is very thin.

Do we have any documentation as to how thick factory paint should be, and how to go about verifying this on my car?

I'm sure there is an actual number for paint thickness, it would only be millimeters. And there is an ultrasound process to determine thickness.... but IMO, WAY more trouble than it would be worth.

CamaroDreams07 · 09-07-2012, 11:09 AM

There are paint thickness gauges you can buy. Very expensive though, but a must if you're doing really aggressive polishing or any wetsanding.

*In life, there are no nandroids*

Todd@Autopia · 09-07-2012, 11:24 AM

In general the clear coat on most new cars is going to be between 1.3-2.5 mils thick. What does that mean?

Modern paint systems start with a primer/etcher that is applied over the substrate (body panel). Increases in body panel manufacturing have lead to thinner and thinner layers of primer. On most modern cars the primer is .3 to 1.5 mils thick. On older vehicles a thicker primer was used to hide the inconsistencies in the panels.

The primer seals the substrate from the environment (preventing rust or oxidation). After the primer has been applied the body panel is given color by the base coat (often referred to as the color coat). The base coat is usually flat or semi-gloss in nature. Again with modern paint systems the tendency has been to limit the thickness of the base coat; just enough is applied to ensure even and consistent color. The base coat can range in thickness to just over .5 mils to 1.5 mils in thickness.

If the paint is a pearl, candy, or metal flake some base coats may have flake or pearlizer mixed into them . Other paint systems may receive additional layers of flake or pearlizer on top of the base coat to add this effect. The thickness of these extra coats can vary wildly by manufacturer but most often range between .3 mils and .8 mils thick.

The upper most paint layer is the clear coat. Clear coat is a clear (pigment-less) paint that is responsible for the UV protection of the layers underneath it, as well as the gloss and shine of the paint. When we polish modern paint systems we are actually polishing the clear coat. The clear coat varies in thickness from approximately 1.5 mils (thin) to 4 mils.

Typical Thicknesses
Primer: .3 - 1.5 mils
Base (color) coat: .5 - 1.5 mils
Specialty coats (optional): .3 - .8 mils
Clear coat: 1.5 - 4 mils

How thick is a mil exactly?

A mil is a standard unit of measurement meaning one thousandth of an inch, or .001 of an inch. In other words, it would take 1000 mils to make an inch.

Paint is also measured in microns, which is a metric unit of measure meaning 1 millionth of a meter. There is approximately 25.4 microns in 1 mil.

How thick are standard items around the house compared to the clear coat found on most vehicles?

I used a Defelsko PosiTest DFT Paint Thickness Gauge to measure the thickness of various items at my disposal.

It couldn't be easier to measure the thickness of paint (or any item on a metal table). Simple hold the meter at a right angle to the material being measured and press lightly down. The machine does the rest. The total thickness on this repainted panel (used for testing) was quite thick: 13.6 total mils.

Those who have ordered from Autopia-CarCare.com have received one of these gorgeous thank you letters made of high quality copy paper. It measured 3.9 mils thick, which would be a very thick clear coat.

Standard printer paper was next. It was the 3 mils thick.

A standard sandwich bag is very thin. Double stacked it was 2.2 mils thick, measuring just one side of the bag resulted in 1.1 mils.

Fully printed magazine cover.

I attempted to measure a CD/DVD, but it was too thick to get an accurate reading. The Defelsko PosiTest is accurate to 40 mils, which suggests that the CD was significantly thicker.

A credit card, measured on the thinnest point.

And finally a dollar bill.

When we are talking about removing paint defects from modern clear coats it is worth repeating the point that they are thin (from a sandwich baggy to a dollar bill thick) and ultimately we don't want to remove more then 10-20 percent of this. High quality, modern polishes use such fine abrasives and are so accurate at leveling the paint that much of the risk associated with polishing paint has been reduced. But always remember that it is best to err to the side of caution and live with a few defects then thin the paint chasing perfection, particularly on a daily driver.

09-06-2012, 12:21 PM	#1
Falundir Drives: 2017 1SS 1LE - Hyper Blue, P85DL Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: East Bay Posts: 2,189 View My Garage	Thin paint? I recently had my car detailed and the detailer mentioned that the paint on my car is very thin. Do we have any documentation as to how thick factory paint should be, and how to go about verifying this on my car?

09-07-2012, 07:58 AM	#2
jrisebo Drives: 2011 Camaro RS "Bumble C" Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Dayton Posts: 569	How did he know it was thin? __________________

09-07-2012, 11:09 AM	#6
CamaroDreams07 Drives: Slow V6 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: East Lansing, MI Posts: 9,361 View My Garage	There are paint thickness gauges you can buy. Very expensive though, but a must if you're doing really aggressive polishing or any wetsanding. In life, there are no nandroids __________________ [B]

09-07-2012, 08:35 AM	#3
chef-beavis Drives: IOM 2013 2SS/RS, Greenie, 06 FXSTBi Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Turd Town, WI Posts: 1,602	If the color is thin, he's seeing through edges under his shop lighting. If the clear is thin, he's not telling you where he burnt through an edge somewhere. The paint on all factory cars is thin. Has been since I was working in the dealership body shops in the late 80's. The factory puts it on with robots that are more even, as well as under much more controlled conditions than the aftermarket. It allows them to get away with way less film build and emissions. Unfortunately, it is also much less forgiving for buffing and such.

09-07-2012, 09:24 AM	#4
motorhead Drives: Love the one you're with Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Downtown Charlie Brown Posts: 11,849	I'm not impressed with any manufacturer's paint these days. I don't worry about because I'm lucky to have a car for more than two years anyhow.

09-07-2012, 11:24 AM	#7
Todd@Autopia Drives: 2010 Mazdaspeed 3 Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Orlando/Stuart, FL Posts: 1,161	In general the clear coat on most new cars is going to be between 1.3-2.5 mils thick. What does that mean? Modern paint systems start with a primer/etcher that is applied over the substrate (body panel). Increases in body panel manufacturing have lead to thinner and thinner layers of primer. On most modern cars the primer is .3 to 1.5 mils thick. On older vehicles a thicker primer was used to hide the inconsistencies in the panels. The primer seals the substrate from the environment (preventing rust or oxidation). After the primer has been applied the body panel is given color by the base coat (often referred to as the color coat). The base coat is usually flat or semi-gloss in nature. Again with modern paint systems the tendency has been to limit the thickness of the base coat; just enough is applied to ensure even and consistent color. The base coat can range in thickness to just over .5 mils to 1.5 mils in thickness. If the paint is a pearl, candy, or metal flake some base coats may have flake or pearlizer mixed into them . Other paint systems may receive additional layers of flake or pearlizer on top of the base coat to add this effect. The thickness of these extra coats can vary wildly by manufacturer but most often range between .3 mils and .8 mils thick. The upper most paint layer is the clear coat. Clear coat is a clear (pigment-less) paint that is responsible for the UV protection of the layers underneath it, as well as the gloss and shine of the paint. When we polish modern paint systems we are actually polishing the clear coat. The clear coat varies in thickness from approximately 1.5 mils (thin) to 4 mils. Typical Thicknesses Primer: .3 - 1.5 mils Base (color) coat: .5 - 1.5 mils Specialty coats (optional): .3 - .8 mils Clear coat: 1.5 - 4 mils How thick is a mil exactly? A mil is a standard unit of measurement meaning one thousandth of an inch, or .001 of an inch. In other words, it would take 1000 mils to make an inch. Paint is also measured in microns, which is a metric unit of measure meaning 1 millionth of a meter. There is approximately 25.4 microns in 1 mil. How thick are standard items around the house compared to the clear coat found on most vehicles? I used a Defelsko PosiTest DFT Paint Thickness Gauge to measure the thickness of various items at my disposal. It couldn't be easier to measure the thickness of paint (or any item on a metal table). Simple hold the meter at a right angle to the material being measured and press lightly down. The machine does the rest. The total thickness on this repainted panel (used for testing) was quite thick: 13.6 total mils. Those who have ordered from Autopia-CarCare.com have received one of these gorgeous thank you letters made of high quality copy paper. It measured 3.9 mils thick, which would be a very thick clear coat. Standard printer paper was next. It was the 3 mils thick. A standard sandwich bag is very thin. Double stacked it was 2.2 mils thick, measuring just one side of the bag resulted in 1.1 mils. Fully printed magazine cover. I attempted to measure a CD/DVD, but it was too thick to get an accurate reading. The Defelsko PosiTest is accurate to 40 mils, which suggests that the CD was significantly thicker. A credit card, measured on the thinnest point. And finally a dollar bill. When we are talking about removing paint defects from modern clear coats it is worth repeating the point that they are thin (from a sandwich baggy to a dollar bill thick) and ultimately we don't want to remove more then 10-20 percent of this. High quality, modern polishes use such fine abrasives and are so accurate at leveling the paint that much of the risk associated with polishing paint has been reduced. But always remember that it is best to err to the side of caution and live with a few defects then thin the paint chasing perfection, particularly on a daily driver.