How much knock retard is acceptable? - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

1KillerSS · 08-02-2014, 06:23 AM

New to LS3's and HPTuners. would like to know what a decent range is for knock retard for tuning when data logging.

Mods are, Airaid CAI, Vmax Ported TB and BBK shorties.

I have searched forums in HPTuners and C5 and frankly getting a lot of conflicting answers. some are saying 0 should be the target and others say more.

Any input would be greatly appreciated, and thank you in advance for reading.

Rhino79 · 08-02-2014, 08:10 AM

0. I u have a sprinkle or 2 of .5 or .7 I wouldn't worry about it too much. If u are getting 2-5 deg chunks or more it's way overtimed

1KillerSS · 08-03-2014, 01:35 PM

Thank you, that's what I was wanting to know.

1KillerSS · 08-04-2014, 04:56 AM

Just to be clear, the data I am referring to would be histogram #2 when you load the default scanner config file

thahemp · 08-04-2014, 10:28 AM

If you're getting KR from too much timing, then you're losing that timing anyways. You might as well pull it out of the tune.

white ZL1 · 08-04-2014, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1KillerSS

Just to be clear, the data I am referring to would be histogram #2 when you load the default scanner config file

Yes.

hawk02 · 08-04-2014, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhino79

0. I u have a sprinkle or 2 of .5 or .7 I wouldn't worry about it too much. If u are getting 2-5 deg chunks or more it's way overtimed

Would this be for average or peak values?

I'll sometimes see 1-2 deg peak but 0 deg avg on my logs.

1KillerSS · 08-04-2014, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hawk02

Would this be for average or peak values?

I'll sometimes see 1-2 deg peak but 0 deg avg on my logs.

That's also my question. And thanks for the help everybody.

1KillerSS · 08-04-2014, 04:23 PM

Sorry guys but I need to ask another question here....It may be a stupid one, but if i dont ask it ill never know. So here it is lol...

Traction control pulls spark and Fuel....so would the Spark control in my TC change my timing and would that show in my knock histogram?

Rhino79 · 08-04-2014, 04:43 PM

It does not show as knock with TC and stabilitrack, just a dip in timing on the log.

1KillerSS · 08-04-2014, 05:30 PM

Thank you again.

It doesn't seem to take much timing to trigger knock.

It seems as though, I get rid of a few 1's and some new ones popup. on the graph. Think I'm close to finishing up.

granatl · 08-16-2014, 10:09 PM

As stated, always target 0 KR. >0 hammers on the bearings and reduces the life of your engine. The computer is being reactionary -- i.e. it's trying to prevent continuing a problem that has occurred in the recent past. And once that wave starts, it tends to continue up through the RPM's until either you get off the accelerator or the computer pulls enough timing to stop it.

1KillerSS · 08-16-2014, 10:42 PM

I was very interested in this question....it seems my stock timing map on shortie headers, VMAX ported TB and a CAI had more than a few degrees of knock on 93 octane fuel.

Maybe my Bolton's have something to do with it? But I have done as told and zeroed out any numbers. Soon as I am done tuning my fuel trims I will integrate that table into the new tune.

Thanks for everybody's reply's and time to read.

Tampa Tuning · 08-17-2014, 07:17 PM

Ive seen that Scanner Config before, but I cant place it lol. Glad I could help.

When I see knock in the 6000 RPM range, and it's going straight up and down from high MAP to low, I think its a rattle because at that point, your off the throttle and its still knocking.

But the pictures of the knock, only tells us what's happening. Post the tune, and we can tell you why its happening. Its normal for 4-6 degrees of knock on the stock tune and its very rich. Normally rich will knock it down. The key is to learn how to lean it out and still keep the timing in.

Without a wideband, your guessing on the effects of your changes.

08-02-2014, 06:23 AM	#1
1KillerSS Too much is never enough! Drives: AGP TT SS [COTW] 4/20/15 Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Toledo,OH Posts: 4,149 View My Garage	How much knock retard is acceptable? New to LS3's and HPTuners. would like to know what a decent range is for knock retard for tuning when data logging. Mods are, Airaid CAI, Vmax Ported TB and BBK shorties. I have searched forums in HPTuners and C5 and frankly getting a lot of conflicting answers. some are saying 0 should be the target and others say more. Any input would be greatly appreciated, and thank you in advance for reading. __________________ AGP TT kit, 54/57 Forged rotating assembly, Custom grind cam... Dual nozzle meth, ID850's, Livernois dual fuel pumps, ECS BAP, 25% UDP, 3 inch Magnaflow catback with X pipe, Mantic 9000 clutch, DSS 1000hp axles, DSS aluminum driveshaft, ZL1 rear end, solid subframe bushings, HE differential offset bushings, BMR Trailing arm, BMR toe rods, Lingenfelter LNC-2000,SJM Line Lock. 747 whp 714wtq *Build thread* http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...55#post8107855

08-03-2014, 01:35 PM	#3
1KillerSS Too much is never enough! Drives: AGP TT SS [COTW] 4/20/15 Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Toledo,OH Posts: 4,149 View My Garage	Thank you, that's what I was wanting to know. __________________ AGP TT kit, 54/57 Forged rotating assembly, Custom grind cam... Dual nozzle meth, ID850's, Livernois dual fuel pumps, ECS BAP, 25% UDP, 3 inch Magnaflow catback with X pipe, Mantic 9000 clutch, DSS 1000hp axles, DSS aluminum driveshaft, ZL1 rear end, solid subframe bushings, HE differential offset bushings, BMR Trailing arm, BMR toe rods, Lingenfelter LNC-2000,SJM Line Lock. 747 whp 714wtq *Build thread* http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...55#post8107855 Last edited by 1KillerSS; 08-04-2014 at 04:36 AM. Reason: Spelling error

08-04-2014, 04:56 AM	#4
1KillerSS Too much is never enough! Drives: AGP TT SS [COTW] 4/20/15 Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Toledo,OH Posts: 4,149 View My Garage	Just to be clear, the data I am referring to would be histogram #2 when you load the default scanner config file Attached Images __________________ AGP TT kit, 54/57 Forged rotating assembly, Custom grind cam... Dual nozzle meth, ID850's, Livernois dual fuel pumps, ECS BAP, 25% UDP, 3 inch Magnaflow catback with X pipe, Mantic 9000 clutch, DSS 1000hp axles, DSS aluminum driveshaft, ZL1 rear end, solid subframe bushings, HE differential offset bushings, BMR Trailing arm, BMR toe rods, Lingenfelter LNC-2000,SJM Line Lock. 747 whp 714wtq *Build thread* http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...55#post8107855 Last edited by 1KillerSS; 08-04-2014 at 08:47 AM. Reason: incorrect screenshot

08-04-2014, 10:28 AM	#5
thahemp Geek Drives: 2012 Black LS3 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Derby, KS Posts: 4,343 View My Garage	If you're getting KR from too much timing, then you're losing that timing anyways. You might as well pull it out of the tune. __________________ 01000111011011110110111101100100001000000110110001 11010101100011011010110010000001110111011010010111 01000110100000100000011101000110100001101001011100 110010000001101111011011100110010100100001 x = ac97968bd3df8f968c8cd3df998a9c94d3df9c8a918bd3df9c 909c94df8c8a9c949a8dd3df92908b979a8ddf998a9c949a8d d3df8b968b8cd1 x = ~x

08-04-2014, 04:23 PM	#9
1KillerSS Too much is never enough! Drives: AGP TT SS [COTW] 4/20/15 Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Toledo,OH Posts: 4,149 View My Garage	Sorry guys but I need to ask another question here....It may be a stupid one, but if i dont ask it ill never know. So here it is lol... Traction control pulls spark and Fuel....so would the Spark control in my TC change my timing and would that show in my knock histogram? __________________ AGP TT kit, 54/57 Forged rotating assembly, Custom grind cam... Dual nozzle meth, ID850's, Livernois dual fuel pumps, ECS BAP, 25% UDP, 3 inch Magnaflow catback with X pipe, Mantic 9000 clutch, DSS 1000hp axles, DSS aluminum driveshaft, ZL1 rear end, solid subframe bushings, HE differential offset bushings, BMR Trailing arm, BMR toe rods, Lingenfelter LNC-2000,SJM Line Lock. 747 whp 714wtq *Build thread* http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...55#post8107855

08-02-2014, 08:10 AM	#2
Rhino79 Drives: 2010 Camaro SS L99/Auto Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Cabot, AR Posts: 2,827 View My Garage	0. I u have a sprinkle or 2 of .5 or .7 I wouldn't worry about it too much. If u are getting 2-5 deg chunks or more it's way overtimed

08-04-2014, 04:43 PM	#10
Rhino79 Drives: 2010 Camaro SS L99/Auto Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Cabot, AR Posts: 2,827 View My Garage	It does not show as knock with TC and stabilitrack, just a dip in timing on the log.

08-04-2014, 05:30 PM	#11
1KillerSS Too much is never enough! Drives: AGP TT SS [COTW] 4/20/15 Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Toledo,OH Posts: 4,149 View My Garage	Thank you again. It doesn't seem to take much timing to trigger knock. It seems as though, I get rid of a few 1's and some new ones popup. on the graph. Think I'm close to finishing up. __________________ AGP TT kit, 54/57 Forged rotating assembly, Custom grind cam... Dual nozzle meth, ID850's, Livernois dual fuel pumps, ECS BAP, 25% UDP, 3 inch Magnaflow catback with X pipe, Mantic 9000 clutch, DSS 1000hp axles, DSS aluminum driveshaft, ZL1 rear end, solid subframe bushings, HE differential offset bushings, BMR Trailing arm, BMR toe rods, Lingenfelter LNC-2000,SJM Line Lock. 747 whp 714wtq *Build thread* http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...55#post8107855

08-16-2014, 10:09 PM	#12
granatl Drives: 2SS RS ABM A6 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Pahrump, NV Posts: 273	As stated, always target 0 KR. >0 hammers on the bearings and reduces the life of your engine. The computer is being reactionary -- i.e. it's trying to prevent continuing a problem that has occurred in the recent past. And once that wave starts, it tends to continue up through the RPM's until either you get off the accelerator or the computer pulls enough timing to stop it. __________________ Jack Bilger

08-16-2014, 10:42 PM	#13
1KillerSS Too much is never enough! Drives: AGP TT SS [COTW] 4/20/15 Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Toledo,OH Posts: 4,149 View My Garage	I was very interested in this question....it seems my stock timing map on shortie headers, VMAX ported TB and a CAI had more than a few degrees of knock on 93 octane fuel. Maybe my Bolton's have something to do with it? But I have done as told and zeroed out any numbers. Soon as I am done tuning my fuel trims I will integrate that table into the new tune. Thanks for everybody's reply's and time to read. Attached Images __________________ AGP TT kit, 54/57 Forged rotating assembly, Custom grind cam... Dual nozzle meth, ID850's, Livernois dual fuel pumps, ECS BAP, 25% UDP, 3 inch Magnaflow catback with X pipe, Mantic 9000 clutch, DSS 1000hp axles, DSS aluminum driveshaft, ZL1 rear end, solid subframe bushings, HE differential offset bushings, BMR Trailing arm, BMR toe rods, Lingenfelter LNC-2000,SJM Line Lock. 747 whp 714wtq *Build thread* http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...55#post8107855

08-17-2014, 07:17 PM	#14
Tampa Tuning Account Suspended Drives: TAMPA TUNING FACEBOOK & INSTAGRAM Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Tampa, Fl Posts: 3,044	Ive seen that Scanner Config before, but I cant place it lol. Glad I could help. When I see knock in the 6000 RPM range, and it's going straight up and down from high MAP to low, I think its a rattle because at that point, your off the throttle and its still knocking. But the pictures of the knock, only tells us what's happening. Post the tune, and we can tell you why its happening. Its normal for 4-6 degrees of knock on the stock tune and its very rich. Normally rich will knock it down. The key is to learn how to lean it out and still keep the timing in. Without a wideband, your guessing on the effects of your changes.