How does an aftermarket Throttle Controller affect tune? ECM or BCM?

[Mean Green Z28]

Background/what we know:
Most info I've found in the forum states it reduces the electronic throttle lag/etc. and people who've installed them love them due to being able to switch between mild to wild modes. And, since it's plug and play, there's no issues of cancelled warranties/etc. 'cos it can easily be removed without a sign it was ever there.

My question:
Some have stated that it can be done with a tune (sans modes); if you don't care about the warranty. How does it affect the tune; or rather the throttle control/response? Is there a table in our tune that we can manipulate the throttle drive-by-wire to do the same thing? Or is it something in the BCM?
I have a copy of EFILive and looked in my tune and the only table that seems to do anything would be B2804 (throttle open rate limits), which are already set to 100% on my "stock" tune.

I for one, would love a bit more oomph when I hit the pedal. I miss the punch in the back style acceleration of my old T/A with its cable throttle...

[1KillerSS]

I dont know about EFI live, but in HPT there are a few different throttle related tables. Read this.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=378840

To answer your first question. you can only go so far in a tune, what you can get out of it is barley noticable...most tuners wont touch the throttle settings for risk of damage to your PCM.

Second question. It does not effect your tune in anyway. Not timing , not AFR or an increase in HP/TQ

It increases the pedal response time to the TB blade, making the blade respond faster. It will go to WOT quicker and you will not need to push as deep into the throttle to get the engine to do what you want it to.

[BFASTNOTLAST]

Originally Posted by 1KillerSS

I dont know about EFI live, but in HPT there are a few different throttle related tables. Read this.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=378840

To answer your first question. you can only go so far in a tune, what you can get out of it is barley noticable...most tuners wont touch the throttle settings for risk of damage to your PCM.

Second question. It does not effect your tune in anyway. Not timing , not AFR or an increase in HP/TQ

It increases the pedal response time to the TB blade, making the blade respond faster. It will go to WOT quicker and you will not need to push as deep into the throttle to get the engine to do what you want it to.

Exactly!

[1KillerSS]

I will note that I returned my tables related to throttle control to stock. I was not sure so I did not want any issues.

Lastly you wont need any settings other than stock settings in your tune because you have all you will want in the controller.

[Mean Green Z28]

i knew it didnt mess with the tune, what I meant was how does it affect how the engine runs with throttle tables etc.
thanks for your response, it actually helped me make sense of the thoughts in my head, haha
so from what I've searched and from looking at tune, I suppose what the throttle controller does is take a linear signal and tweak the curve output signal to change the way the blade reacts to your pedal input ... thats the best way I can describe it without drawing a graph.

Typing fat fingered on my GS3...excuse any sfelling mitcakes

[1KillerSS]

It does nothing for air fuel ratio or timing it's all pedal response. Hope that answers your question some people were wondering about that.

[TRIFECTA]

We have a proprietary OS for the LS3/L99's that converts the operating system to torque demand driven:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=379948

With the TRIFECTA E38.1 OS, MK2 Calibration, you can set the driver demanded torque to whatever you feel like; the TRIFECTA E38.1 OS does not just allow response to be altered but will reduce the lag between throttle inputs and the ECM response delay.

Mean Green Z28, would you like a demo TRIFECTA calibration (TRIFECTA Try Before You Buy, name in progress, speed limited to XX MPH) for your MY2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS? If you're interested, please email TRIFECTA customer support and mention this offer

Thank you,

Kayla@TRIFECTA

[1KillerSS]

Originally Posted by TRIFECTA

We have a proprietary OS for the LS3/L99's that converts the operating system to torque demand driven:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=379948

With the TRIFECTA E38.1 OS, MK2 Calibration, you can set the driver demanded torque to whatever you feel like; the TRIFECTA E38.1 OS does not just allow response to be altered but will reduce the lag between throttle inputs and the ECM response delay.

Mean Green Z28, would you like a demo TRIFECTA calibration (TRIFECTA Try Before You Buy, name in progress, speed limited to XX MPH) for your MY2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS? If you're interested, please email TRIFECTA customer support and mention this offer

Thank you,

Kayla@TRIFECTA

When you say "reduce", can you tell us by how much? Are you saying that Trifecta can do what the controller does, or any of the other throttle controllers out on the market does?

[TRIFECTA]

Originally Posted by 1KillerSS

When you say "reduce", can you tell us by how much?

The measured delay varies by throttle position and by power state on the stock GM OS, but a delay of 150 ms is not uncommon. In instances where StabiliTrak (traction control) has just triggered or is triggering and the StabiliTrak elapsed timer has not yet expired, the average measured delay could be as long as >500 ms.

For example, lets say if the vehicle operator demanded 50 percent throttle from a state of 0 percent or idle, depending on vehicle speed, the measured delay could be as much as 300 ms (at 0 MPH, until gradient scaling expires) or around ~150 ms (at 50 MPH).

We have the measurements charted however with the TRIFECTA E38.1 OS, MK2 Calibration, because the OS is now driver demanded torque based, with priority queuing altered to reflect delivered torque first and then the conditional modifiers added as a separate modifier instead of as part of the original commanded state, throttle application delay will not only be reduced (minimum delay is now 2 ms), but the average delay will be reduced as well (average delay is now ~50 ms).

Originally Posted by 1KillerSS

that Trifecta can do what the controller does, or any of the other throttle controllers out on the market does?

The TRIFECTA E38.1 OS, we can do something that an external add-on throttle controller does not: with any add-on or external throttle controller, resolution is lost as the scaling is affected by an external modifier; with the TRIFECTA E38.1 OS however, because the driver demanded torque tables and torque coefficient calcs are per user input, resolution will not be negatively affected vs stock.

For example, on an automatic transmission vehicle, if you wanted to command a one gear downshift at exactly 24 percent throttle application and an additional gear downshift at 48 percent throttle, the exact linear scaling as per user intent can be input as desired.

The end result is throttle response that can be set to whatever the user prefers and the delay between throttle application and actual throttle blade response is greatly reduced. An example given would be at idle if a vehicle operator were to blip the throttle three times in quick succession, on the stock OS, the throttle applications will blur together, but with the TRIFECTA E38.1 OS the three distinct throttle applications will be just that: three distinct throttle applications. The throttle negative ramp rates can now be adjusted as well (with additional user set or speed or RPM dependent modifiers): if the desired effect is to simulate a reduced mass flywheel, or to go the other way at a speed specific conditionset, such as <1500 RPM to simulate instead a increased mass flywheel when a reduced mass flywheel is used to increase drivability, its only one table away.

With the current generation of TRIFECTA's flash loader solutions and the TRIFECTA Transparency featureset, when flashing your vehicle, the TRIFECTA flash loader does not increment the ECM write counter or increment entries in the ECM flash history.



Thank you,

Mitchell@TRIFECTA

[1KillerSS]

I am very impressed with your highly detailed, technical explanation. Since I am a student of all of this, do you think you could explain this to me in a little more layman's terms?

Have you any data logs of your improved response times, other than dyno charts? Something that shows the input time from pedal action to blade response? I would like to learn more about what your speaking about. Please do not misunderstand me. I am not being sarcastic. I am just lacking in the educational details of how your product works.

All I can speak on is the throttle settings within HPTuners. I have no experience with your product.

[DrkPhx]

Originally Posted by Mean Green Z28

Background/what we know:
Most info I've found in the forum states it reduces the electronic throttle lag/etc. and people who've installed them love them due to being able to switch between mild to wild modes. And, since it's plug and play, there's no issues of cancelled warranties/etc. 'cos it can easily be removed without a sign it was ever there.

My question:
Some have stated that it can be done with a tune (sans modes); if you don't care about the warranty. How does it affect the tune; or rather the throttle control/response? Is there a table in our tune that we can manipulate the throttle drive-by-wire to do the same thing? Or is it something in the BCM?
I have a copy of EFILive and looked in my tune and the only table that seems to do anything would be B2804 (throttle open rate limits), which are already set to 100% on my "stock" tune.

I for one, would love a bit more oomph when I hit the pedal. I miss the punch in the back style acceleration of my old T/A with its cable throttle...

You can access the Throttle Response tables in EFILive; but the Flashscan must be connected to your laptop to access them. Once connected you will see the red folder at the bottom of the file 'tree".

[1KillerSS]

Originally Posted by DrkPhx

You can access the Throttle Response tables in EFILive; but the Flashscan must be connected to your laptop to access them. Once connected you will see the red folder at the bottom of the file 'tree".

Curious about EFI live as well as trfecta, would like to know what its tuning limits are.