Looking for A6 Guys / Builders to comment on Aftermarket Stall question - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

JamesZL1 · 04-01-2015, 04:15 PM

My question put simply is, will an aftermarket Stall (i.e. Yank 2800) Give you higher peak numbers by letting the car make power up to 6400ish RPM?

Explanation:

I have the 2013 with mods listed below. My dad has a 2013 Lingenfelter LPE700 (done by them). We have similar mods and until recently we made almost the same amount of power (he made about 8 more HP then me). Both of our cars have been on the same Dyno and both out cars stopped making power at about the same point (6000 - 6200 RPMish). The power just seems to fall off and no matter what the tuner did, he could not get the power to continue up to about 6400-6500. We did overlays of both car and they both had the same characteristic. I even went back to my stock CAI tune and it was the same where the power falls off. It was suggested to me by another Camaro owner that it was a result of the stock Stall converter not letting the car make power up top, but the tuner checked the input vs. output shaft and said that there was no slippage on my stock converter. All the M6 cars keep pulling up top and that is where they were making the power over my car (getting better peak numbers). Recently my dad had 1 7/8" BBK LT headers, a Yank 2800 stall converter and a Methanol kit installed on his car. His last Dyno on that machine was 587HP. After tuning with these new mods, his car made 642HP and 597 Torque. When we did an overlay of my last Dyno run compared to his, we noticed that his car now makes power up to about 6400 RPM and from about 6K to 6400 he pulls away from me. this is a copy of our overlay. he is the red I am the blue. So somehow his car now pulls past this 6000 RPM mark up to about 6400. The tuner still don't think that it is the converter that is making this happen because mine is not showing any slippage up to redline. Looking for some info here...anyone got any insight on this?

Sven59 · 04-01-2015, 04:25 PM

Was the car in D or M?

JamesZL1 · 04-01-2015, 04:27 PM

Manual 4th gear pull.

Sven59 · 04-01-2015, 04:28 PM

Ok, I know the rpm shift point is higher in M than D. Tune off for the tranny?

wirebender · 04-01-2015, 04:53 PM

What size injectors?....are you running out of fuel? I had a "weak" fuel pump replaced and A/F was much better after ~6K rpm....before replacement just couldn't get it rich enough....

JamesZL1 · 04-01-2015, 05:17 PM

ID850s as stated in my sig, I am not sure what size they use in the lingenfelter kit...I am holding strong at 65lbs when I get into boost...

Sven59 · 04-01-2015, 05:37 PM

Was it like hitting a Rev limiter stop or just I can't pull anymore?

JamesZL1 · 04-01-2015, 05:57 PM

no, he was taking it up to redline, you can see where the power just drops off after 6K on mine (sorry the pic chopped off the RPM's, but where the solid black line is next to where you can see the power fall off is 6K). Power is falling off before redline on mine. My dads used to do the same thing before installing the Stall, Headers and Meth kit.

Sven59 · 04-01-2015, 06:00 PM

I thought it might help troubleshoot if you can tell if something is cutting the power like the Rev limiter or the PTM vs. I can't make anymore power.

JamesZL1 · 04-01-2015, 07:09 PM

Yeah I have heard both sides on the PTM thing...Both of these cars have been done by the same tuner on the same dyno and both are autos of the same year...tried to make sure that everything was done identical. The dyno's were done on different days at different temps, but that wouldn't effect the power curve up top...His changed after adding the latest mods. I was hoping that someone had seen this in the past and knew for sure if the aftermarket stall was what helps with the peak numbers past 6K RPM's. Looks like mine actually start to level off at around 5500 and fall off at about 6200... his curve looks allot smoother and nicer...If my curve continued like his does, it would make quite a bit more peak....My mid ranges looks allot better and my cam makes more torque. (mine is the texas speed LS3-B blower cam and his is the GT9 cam from lingenfelter)

white ZL1 · 04-01-2015, 08:44 PM

Spark. Either knock retard or one car is tolerating more timing than the other, thus carrying power to a higher rpm.

DrkPhx · 04-01-2015, 09:10 PM

Are they going immediately to WOT after the car is turned on? If so, there is a Cold Engine Rev Limiter that limits rpm based on run time (up to 85 seconds). Probably not it, but it wouldn't hurt to check it.

JamesZL1 · 04-02-2015, 12:06 AM

My car is at 23 degrees timing and my dads is at 21 degrees...both are on methanol...Both out IAT2's are running about 140. Both cars are at operating temp when put on the dyno....both made several pulls and were running for more then 90 seconds while on the dyno.

Chrispy · 04-02-2015, 06:03 AM

Few questions:
- Are you running cats?
- Was the cam measured on a cam doctor and then degreed when put in?
- Are you both running the same converter?
- Are you both running the converter locked?
- Are you both running identical wheels and tires and tire pressure?

There's a lot of variables.

My guess is either your converter isn't fully locking or your cam was ground with a bit more advance than advertised or was installed a bit advanced.

Different cars have different results as well. Amount of leakdown of the motor, blower and intercooler cooling efficiency, blow off valve differences, different weight wheels and tires etc.

04-01-2015, 04:15 PM	#1
JamesZL1 Drives: 2013 ZL1 A6 Camaro, 2015 C7 A6 Z51 Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 396	Looking for A6 Guys / Builders to comment on Aftermarket Stall question My question put simply is, will an aftermarket Stall (i.e. Yank 2800) Give you higher peak numbers by letting the car make power up to 6400ish RPM? Explanation: I have the 2013 with mods listed below. My dad has a 2013 Lingenfelter LPE700 (done by them). We have similar mods and until recently we made almost the same amount of power (he made about 8 more HP then me). Both of our cars have been on the same Dyno and both out cars stopped making power at about the same point (6000 - 6200 RPMish). The power just seems to fall off and no matter what the tuner did, he could not get the power to continue up to about 6400-6500. We did overlays of both car and they both had the same characteristic. I even went back to my stock CAI tune and it was the same where the power falls off. It was suggested to me by another Camaro owner that it was a result of the stock Stall converter not letting the car make power up top, but the tuner checked the input vs. output shaft and said that there was no slippage on my stock converter. All the M6 cars keep pulling up top and that is where they were making the power over my car (getting better peak numbers). Recently my dad had 1 7/8" BBK LT headers, a Yank 2800 stall converter and a Methanol kit installed on his car. His last Dyno on that machine was 587HP. After tuning with these new mods, his car made 642HP and 597 Torque. When we did an overlay of my last Dyno run compared to his, we noticed that his car now makes power up to about 6400 RPM and from about 6K to 6400 he pulls away from me. this is a copy of our overlay. he is the red I am the blue. So somehow his car now pulls past this 6000 RPM mark up to about 6400. The tuner still don't think that it is the converter that is making this happen because mine is not showing any slippage up to redline. Looking for some info here...anyone got any insight on this? Attached Images __________________ Roto-Fab CAI, Texas Speed Headers, Texas Speed X-Pipe, Texas Speed LS3-B Blower Cam, Metco 9.10" Crank Pulley, Metco 2.5 Upper Pulley, ID 850 Injectors, LPE Ported Throttle Body, Alky Control Methanol kit, E2 Catch Can, 610HP / 608 Torque. Last edited by JamesZL1; 04-01-2015 at 04:26 PM.

04-01-2015, 04:25 PM	#2
Sven59 HAMMER PILOT Drives: 13 ZL1#182, 85 CJ7, 16 Silverado Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 4,387	Was the car in D or M? __________________ "DO YOU WANT ME TO PUT THE HAMMER DOWN?"

04-01-2015, 04:27 PM	#3
JamesZL1 Drives: 2013 ZL1 A6 Camaro, 2015 C7 A6 Z51 Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 396	Manual 4th gear pull. __________________ Roto-Fab CAI, Texas Speed Headers, Texas Speed X-Pipe, Texas Speed LS3-B Blower Cam, Metco 9.10" Crank Pulley, Metco 2.5 Upper Pulley, ID 850 Injectors, LPE Ported Throttle Body, Alky Control Methanol kit, E2 Catch Can, 610HP / 608 Torque.

04-01-2015, 04:28 PM	#4
Sven59 HAMMER PILOT Drives: 13 ZL1#182, 85 CJ7, 16 Silverado Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 4,387	Ok, I know the rpm shift point is higher in M than D. Tune off for the tranny? __________________ "DO YOU WANT ME TO PUT THE HAMMER DOWN?" Last edited by Sven59; 04-01-2015 at 04:49 PM.

04-01-2015, 05:17 PM	#6
JamesZL1 Drives: 2013 ZL1 A6 Camaro, 2015 C7 A6 Z51 Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 396	ID850s as stated in my sig, I am not sure what size they use in the lingenfelter kit...I am holding strong at 65lbs when I get into boost... __________________ Roto-Fab CAI, Texas Speed Headers, Texas Speed X-Pipe, Texas Speed LS3-B Blower Cam, Metco 9.10" Crank Pulley, Metco 2.5 Upper Pulley, ID 850 Injectors, LPE Ported Throttle Body, Alky Control Methanol kit, E2 Catch Can, 610HP / 608 Torque.

04-01-2015, 04:53 PM	#5
wirebender Drives: 2017 ZL1, A10, White, sunroof, nav Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Garner, NC Posts: 720 View My Garage	What size injectors?....are you running out of fuel? I had a "weak" fuel pump replaced and A/F was much better after ~6K rpm....before replacement just couldn't get it rich enough....

04-01-2015, 05:37 PM	#7
Sven59 HAMMER PILOT Drives: 13 ZL1#182, 85 CJ7, 16 Silverado Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 4,387	Was it like hitting a Rev limiter stop or just I can't pull anymore? __________________ "DO YOU WANT ME TO PUT THE HAMMER DOWN?"

04-01-2015, 05:57 PM	#8
JamesZL1 Drives: 2013 ZL1 A6 Camaro, 2015 C7 A6 Z51 Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 396	no, he was taking it up to redline, you can see where the power just drops off after 6K on mine (sorry the pic chopped off the RPM's, but where the solid black line is next to where you can see the power fall off is 6K). Power is falling off before redline on mine. My dads used to do the same thing before installing the Stall, Headers and Meth kit. __________________ Roto-Fab CAI, Texas Speed Headers, Texas Speed X-Pipe, Texas Speed LS3-B Blower Cam, Metco 9.10" Crank Pulley, Metco 2.5 Upper Pulley, ID 850 Injectors, LPE Ported Throttle Body, Alky Control Methanol kit, E2 Catch Can, 610HP / 608 Torque.

04-01-2015, 06:00 PM	#9
Sven59 HAMMER PILOT Drives: 13 ZL1#182, 85 CJ7, 16 Silverado Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 4,387	I thought it might help troubleshoot if you can tell if something is cutting the power like the Rev limiter or the PTM vs. I can't make anymore power. __________________ "DO YOU WANT ME TO PUT THE HAMMER DOWN?"

04-01-2015, 07:09 PM	#10
JamesZL1 Drives: 2013 ZL1 A6 Camaro, 2015 C7 A6 Z51 Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 396	Yeah I have heard both sides on the PTM thing...Both of these cars have been done by the same tuner on the same dyno and both are autos of the same year...tried to make sure that everything was done identical. The dyno's were done on different days at different temps, but that wouldn't effect the power curve up top...His changed after adding the latest mods. I was hoping that someone had seen this in the past and knew for sure if the aftermarket stall was what helps with the peak numbers past 6K RPM's. Looks like mine actually start to level off at around 5500 and fall off at about 6200... his curve looks allot smoother and nicer...If my curve continued like his does, it would make quite a bit more peak....My mid ranges looks allot better and my cam makes more torque. (mine is the texas speed LS3-B blower cam and his is the GT9 cam from lingenfelter) __________________ Roto-Fab CAI, Texas Speed Headers, Texas Speed X-Pipe, Texas Speed LS3-B Blower Cam, Metco 9.10" Crank Pulley, Metco 2.5 Upper Pulley, ID 850 Injectors, LPE Ported Throttle Body, Alky Control Methanol kit, E2 Catch Can, 610HP / 608 Torque.

04-01-2015, 08:44 PM	#11
white ZL1 Drives: none Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: DFW area Posts: 1,844	Spark. Either knock retard or one car is tolerating more timing than the other, thus carrying power to a higher rpm.

04-01-2015, 09:10 PM	#12
DrkPhx Drives: 2013 Triple Black ZL1 / 2006 TB SS Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: MN Posts: 2,250	Are they going immediately to WOT after the car is turned on? If so, there is a Cold Engine Rev Limiter that limits rpm based on run time (up to 85 seconds). Probably not it, but it wouldn't hurt to check it.

04-02-2015, 12:06 AM	#13
JamesZL1 Drives: 2013 ZL1 A6 Camaro, 2015 C7 A6 Z51 Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 396	My car is at 23 degrees timing and my dads is at 21 degrees...both are on methanol...Both out IAT2's are running about 140. Both cars are at operating temp when put on the dyno....both made several pulls and were running for more then 90 seconds while on the dyno. __________________ Roto-Fab CAI, Texas Speed Headers, Texas Speed X-Pipe, Texas Speed LS3-B Blower Cam, Metco 9.10" Crank Pulley, Metco 2.5 Upper Pulley, ID 850 Injectors, LPE Ported Throttle Body, Alky Control Methanol kit, E2 Catch Can, 610HP / 608 Torque.

04-02-2015, 06:03 AM	#14
Chrispy 11.91 ET Bone stock Drives: 2015 Camaro ZL1 Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Canada Posts: 353	Few questions: - Are you running cats? - Was the cam measured on a cam doctor and then degreed when put in? - Are you both running the same converter? - Are you both running the converter locked? - Are you both running identical wheels and tires and tire pressure? There's a lot of variables. My guess is either your converter isn't fully locking or your cam was ground with a bit more advance than advertised or was installed a bit advanced. Different cars have different results as well. Amount of leakdown of the motor, blower and intercooler cooling efficiency, blow off valve differences, different weight wheels and tires etc.