Flares and the woes we have with them - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

MrRaZ28 · 10-30-2018, 10:11 AM

Starting a new thread regarding the flares because the previous one was quite a while ago and I have some new material to discuss.

Common knowledge for most Z/28 owners is that the adhesive used from factory is... lackluster at best. Prior to getting the wrap done, both front fender flares were coming loose. At first I thought it was due to the car's paint being "redone" (I say that very, very loosely).. but research has shown that this is not an isolated incident and my problem is not uncommon. My wrap shop used a combination of VHB and RTV to put them back on when everything was reassembled, and while the rear flares seem solidly on, the fronts are worse than before... I attribute this to a combination of heat, spirited driving (track day) and a bonding surface that isn't the greatest.

So, that leads me to this thread. I'm taking it in today to get my D/S fender replaced and re-wrapped thanks to shrapnel from a concrete pump truck's secondary driveshaft exploding on the highway... and we're going to address the flares. I want a solution that doesn't bond the flares "permanently" to the fenders, thus requiring damaging the wrap/paint if they have to come off. I also want them to be forced to sit flush so that they actually function properly while tracking the car. I know I could use Betalink K2, but I work constantly on this car, and having something on it I can't take off myself is a huge red flag to me.

What we've come up with are several options and none of them make me overly happy. They aren't thick enough near the top of the flare to apply adequate pressure via rivets or screws with compression nuts... and I am not changing to another style of flare so that option is off the table. What we may be going with is a reverse of the compression nuts.. permanently bonding the nuts to the flare, and counter drilling the fender while using bolts/washers etc. to pull the flare to the fender and using a soft neoprene or thin rubber gasket to create an air seal.

Reason for ALL of this, besides the fact I want something that functions and looks like it should, is because I really, REALLY don't want to have to spend $230+ to replace a plastic flare that might come loose while I'm on the highway or track.

Thoughts?

MrRaZ28 · 10-30-2018, 10:22 AM

Pics for context.

MrRaZ28 · 10-30-2018, 10:23 AM

Keeping in mind, the fronts were installed the exact same as the rears.. with the same amount of cure time with pressure on the VHB and they are not separating at all.

A10maint · 10-30-2018, 11:04 AM

Following! I will be wrapping mine in the near future and I don't want the same thing happening. My D/S is already separating about 1 1/2 - 2". BTW, I was going to be wrapping the same color. But, since you beat me to it, now I have to hit the color pallet again. lol

MrRaZ28 · 10-30-2018, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A10maint

Following! I will be wrapping mine in the near future and I don't want the same thing happening. My D/S is already separating about 1 1/2 - 2". BTW, I was going to be wrapping the same color. But, since you beat me to it, now I have to hit the color pallet again. lol

THAT is a lot more separation than I've seen. Definitely be careful. I wasn't kidding when I said $230+ per flare.

Be glad I did it first because I can now impart this bit of knowledge: STAY AWAY FROM 3M METALLIC WRAP. This was supposed to be mostly satin, and while I love the color and get tons of compliments, it was a monumental pain in the ass. We went through so much vinyl due to holes, clumps of flake, or over-stretching FROM FACTORY and 3M just shrugged and isn't reimbursing us. I will never use another 3M wrap again.. I'm just glad this shop honored their word because I sure as hell felt bad afterward.. 75+ hours into the damn thing because of so many problems.. mostly wrap related.

A10maint · 10-30-2018, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chevy2tehBone

THAT is a lot more separation than I've seen. Definitely be careful. I wasn't kidding when I said $230+ per flare.

Be glad I did it first because I can now impart this bit of knowledge: STAY AWAY FROM 3M METALLIC WRAP. This was supposed to be mostly satin, and while I love the color and get tons of compliments, it was a monumental pain in the ass. We went through so much vinyl due to holes, clumps of flake, or over-stretching FROM FACTORY and 3M just shrugged and isn't reimbursing us. I will never use another 3M wrap again.. I'm just glad this shop honored their word because I sure as hell felt bad afterward.. 75+ hours into the damn thing because of so many problems.. mostly wrap related.

The separation is just above the flare bolts. I keep and eye on it, but no movement yet. Probably helps that I have dive planes in the same location.

Surprising since 3M is suppose to be top of line material. That's good information to know. I was looking into a satin metallic color vinyl. Probably leaning towards a dark grey/gun metal color. Did they wrap the spoiler? If so, is it full 360* or did they just wrap the top area?

MrRaZ28 · 10-30-2018, 11:34 AM

3M's QC has gone down the drain. This shop won't even carry it anymore because it has cost them so much time and money because of imperfections.

Keep in mind this: Satin is difficult to apply without causing discoloration.. satin metallic even more so. I thought this was just satin, but it's satin metallic copper and any excessive stretching causes it to go bright yellow, and any overheating causes it to turn white.

As for the spoiler, yes. Every bit of aero as well as the roof is satin black. They didn't do the entire spoiler, but the parts that aren't wrapped are on the underside and only seen when the trunk is open. I didn't want them to spend too much time on it as I will be replacing with a CF wing in the coming months.

A10maint · 10-30-2018, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chevy2tehBone

3M's QC has gone down the drain. This shop won't even carry it anymore because it has cost them so much time and money because of imperfections.

Keep in mind this: Satin is difficult to apply without causing discoloration.. satin metallic even more so. I thought this was just satin, but it's satin metallic copper and any excessive stretching causes it to go bright yellow, and any overheating causes it to turn white.

As for the spoiler, yes. Every bit of aero as well as the roof is satin black. They didn't do the entire spoiler, but the parts that aren't wrapped are on the underside and only seen when the trunk is open. I didn't want them to spend too much time on it as I will be replacing with a CF wing in the coming months.

Appreciate the heads up information. Sorry for side tracking OP.

MrRaZ28 · 10-30-2018, 11:48 AM

Nah, it's good info for everyone lol. I won't have many updates on the flares until we make a decision and it most likely won't be done until next week as we need to order hardware. I am overseeing all modifications/fabrication when it comes to this car... I don't let others work on my stuff lightly.

hjdca · 10-30-2018, 03:01 PM

Hello, I have xpel on mine and I do not have any separation on any of my flares. Does the separation of the flares happen when you peel off the wrap ? or could it be from bottoming out on driveways ?

MrRaZ28 · 10-30-2018, 03:05 PM

No, they were coming off before I had it wrapped. This car has never been bottomed out on anything as far as I can tell.

I'm almost certain it's heat related. It gets pretty hot here during the summer, and I've got 51k miles on it with 8k of that done by me.

ColdfuzionTN · 10-30-2018, 04:04 PM

I have them on my SS and have the same issue. Have had to get them reinstalled a few times and we use that windshield adhesive and it works great for the large contact areas but still have trouble with the 3M. Having the bumpers on and off working on the car just speeds up the issue. I think next go round just going to skip the 3M and use the adhesive along the edge as well.

Shoupaloop · 10-30-2018, 05:22 PM

When I had mine wrapped, we did not do the flares. The installer attached the flares with 3M tape and it's better than before it went in. There's some separation, minimally, after 6 months.

MrRaZ28 · 10-30-2018, 05:26 PM

Yeah, your thread was the one I was looking at quite a bit through the whole process. I did have them wrap mine, but the surface between the flare and fender was left as-is (except on the fender itself). Separation is pretty bad, as you can see. And that's with 3M VHB tape.

Having to remove the front bumper to do anything behind it is largely what I was thinking for the future.. which is why I want to be able to take them off without damaging the wrap, flare, or fender AND not have a monstrous hassle. Not to mention stability when I track the car since I plan on taking it to the track more and more in the coming years.

10-30-2018, 10:11 AM	#1
MrRaZ28 @MrRaZ28 Drives: 2014 Z28 #80 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 590 View My Garage	Flares and the woes we have with them Starting a new thread regarding the flares because the previous one was quite a while ago and I have some new material to discuss. Common knowledge for most Z/28 owners is that the adhesive used from factory is... lackluster at best. Prior to getting the wrap done, both front fender flares were coming loose. At first I thought it was due to the car's paint being "redone" (I say that very, very loosely).. but research has shown that this is not an isolated incident and my problem is not uncommon. My wrap shop used a combination of VHB and RTV to put them back on when everything was reassembled, and while the rear flares seem solidly on, the fronts are worse than before... I attribute this to a combination of heat, spirited driving (track day) and a bonding surface that isn't the greatest. So, that leads me to this thread. I'm taking it in today to get my D/S fender replaced and re-wrapped thanks to shrapnel from a concrete pump truck's secondary driveshaft exploding on the highway... and we're going to address the flares. I want a solution that doesn't bond the flares "permanently" to the fenders, thus requiring damaging the wrap/paint if they have to come off. I also want them to be forced to sit flush so that they actually function properly while tracking the car. I know I could use Betalink K2, but I work constantly on this car, and having something on it I can't take off myself is a huge red flag to me. What we've come up with are several options and none of them make me overly happy. They aren't thick enough near the top of the flare to apply adequate pressure via rivets or screws with compression nuts... and I am not changing to another style of flare so that option is off the table. What we may be going with is a reverse of the compression nuts.. permanently bonding the nuts to the flare, and counter drilling the fender while using bolts/washers etc. to pull the flare to the fender and using a soft neoprene or thin rubber gasket to create an air seal. Reason for ALL of this, besides the fact I want something that functions and looks like it should, is because I really, REALLY don't want to have to spend $230+ to replace a plastic flare that might come loose while I'm on the highway or track. Thoughts?

10-30-2018, 10:22 AM	#2
MrRaZ28 @MrRaZ28 Drives: 2014 Z28 #80 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 590 View My Garage	Pics for context. Attached Images

10-30-2018, 11:04 AM	#4
A10maint Drives: 2015 Z/28 #525 Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Tucson Posts: 65	Following! I will be wrapping mine in the near future and I don't want the same thing happening. My D/S is already separating about 1 1/2 - 2". BTW, I was going to be wrapping the same color. But, since you beat me to it, now I have to hit the color pallet again. lol __________________ 2015 Z/28 #525, BLK, A/C, Speaker

10-30-2018, 03:01 PM	#10
hjdca Drives: 2015 Z/28 Black Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 342	Hello, I have xpel on mine and I do not have any separation on any of my flares. Does the separation of the flares happen when you peel off the wrap ? or could it be from bottoming out on driveways ? __________________ 2015 Black Z/28 70 Chevelle SS396 01 M3, 88 Land Cruiser

10-30-2018, 10:23 AM	#3
MrRaZ28 @MrRaZ28 Drives: 2014 Z28 #80 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 590 View My Garage	Keeping in mind, the fronts were installed the exact same as the rears.. with the same amount of cure time with pressure on the VHB and they are not separating at all.

10-30-2018, 11:34 AM	#7
MrRaZ28 @MrRaZ28 Drives: 2014 Z28 #80 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 590 View My Garage	3M's QC has gone down the drain. This shop won't even carry it anymore because it has cost them so much time and money because of imperfections. Keep in mind this: Satin is difficult to apply without causing discoloration.. satin metallic even more so. I thought this was just satin, but it's satin metallic copper and any excessive stretching causes it to go bright yellow, and any overheating causes it to turn white. As for the spoiler, yes. Every bit of aero as well as the roof is satin black. They didn't do the entire spoiler, but the parts that aren't wrapped are on the underside and only seen when the trunk is open. I didn't want them to spend too much time on it as I will be replacing with a CF wing in the coming months.

10-30-2018, 11:48 AM	#9
MrRaZ28 @MrRaZ28 Drives: 2014 Z28 #80 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 590 View My Garage	Nah, it's good info for everyone lol. I won't have many updates on the flares until we make a decision and it most likely won't be done until next week as we need to order hardware. I am overseeing all modifications/fabrication when it comes to this car... I don't let others work on my stuff lightly.

10-30-2018, 03:05 PM	#11
MrRaZ28 @MrRaZ28 Drives: 2014 Z28 #80 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 590 View My Garage	No, they were coming off before I had it wrapped. This car has never been bottomed out on anything as far as I can tell. I'm almost certain it's heat related. It gets pretty hot here during the summer, and I've got 51k miles on it with 8k of that done by me.

10-30-2018, 04:04 PM	#12
ColdfuzionTN Drives: 2012 Camaro SS Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Greeneville, TN Posts: 187	I have them on my SS and have the same issue. Have had to get them reinstalled a few times and we use that windshield adhesive and it works great for the large contact areas but still have trouble with the 3M. Having the bumpers on and off working on the car just speeds up the issue. I think next go round just going to skip the 3M and use the adhesive along the edge as well.

10-30-2018, 05:22 PM	#13
Shoupaloop Drives: 2015 Z28 Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Michigan Posts: 136	When I had mine wrapped, we did not do the flares. The installer attached the flares with 3M tape and it's better than before it went in. There's some separation, minimally, after 6 months.

10-30-2018, 05:26 PM	#14
MrRaZ28 @MrRaZ28 Drives: 2014 Z28 #80 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 590 View My Garage	Yeah, your thread was the one I was looking at quite a bit through the whole process. I did have them wrap mine, but the surface between the flare and fender was left as-is (except on the fender itself). Separation is pretty bad, as you can see. And that's with 3M VHB tape. Having to remove the front bumper to do anything behind it is largely what I was thinking for the future.. which is why I want to be able to take them off without damaging the wrap, flare, or fender AND not have a monstrous hassle. Not to mention stability when I track the car since I plan on taking it to the track more and more in the coming years.