Solid Axle Conversion for 2010 Camaro - Page 4 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

NVMY68SS · 10-07-2009, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadMaxx

While a live axle does have it's benefits for drag racing -- there have been SERIOUSLY fast cars on IRS in the last decade. Hell, take a look at the Viper and mkiv Supra community if one has doubts.

If you guys are going to proceed with the project -- can you get me the stock weights of the rear mufflers when you pull them off?

I don't have exact numbers on them, but I remember thinking they "felt" like 2-5 gallon gas cans full each..........

Seriously, the cat to muffler pipe section felt like 20-30 lbs and each muffler felt like 15-20 lbs maybe. I may be way off on this, but I know the FM 3" cat back kit with the mufflers was a big reduction in weight.

THUMPER20X · 10-13-2009, 02:22 AM

The solid axle does have advantages. However. I would not even bother at all unless it was Ford 9" The 10-12bolt is a pile IMO. The 9 is a superior piece in strength, durability and ease of gear change and setups.

chevy454 · 10-13-2009, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THUMPER20X

The solid axle does have advantages. However. I would not even bother at all unless it was Ford 9" The 10-12bolt is a pile IMO. The 9 is a superior piece in strength, durability and ease of gear change and setups.

A 10/12 bolt setup eats less hp, though, due to the pinion height, and it's quite a bit lighter...the GM units have lived beneath some pretty stout stuff...so if you're within the limits of a good 10/12 setup, you'll be ahead of a comparable 9-inch setup. But if you're talking crazy amounts of HP (and hooking it), the 9-inch is the safe bet...

THUMPER20X · 10-13-2009, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevy454

A 10/12 bolt setup eats less hp, though, due to the pinion height, and it's quite a bit lighter...the GM units have lived beneath some pretty stout stuff...so if you're within the limits of a good 10/12 setup, you'll be ahead of a comparable 9-inch setup. But if you're talking crazy amounts of HP (and hooking it), the 9-inch is the safe bet...

I blew at 4 10bolts in my 93. Two were built with axles and some really awesome parts. You cant beat the 9". I was running 400hp and Drag radials. 10bolt is absolute crap.

chevy454 · 10-13-2009, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THUMPER20X

I blew at 4 10bolts in my 93. Two were built with axles and some really awesome parts. You cant beat the 9". I was running 400hp and Drag radials. 10bolt is absolute crap.

The 10 bolt is inherently weaker than the 12 bolt (lot smaller ring gear for starters), but the hp/weight savings theory (versus the 9 inch) is still true. It's a similar thing with the Dana 60...it's stronger than the Ford-9, but heavier and a hp pig to turn...if you can get away with the Ford-9 you'll be ahead of the game, but your setup may dictate the Dana. We had a Dana 60 in a big tire'd Chevelle years ago...man was that thing HEAVY.

It's funny, how different combos, in the hands of different people, react different. There's a high school kid here in town who can't keep a rear end under his truck (I helped him a bit with his last rear) even though he's just got a basic 350 in a 4x4 daily driver...but another guy here has an S10 drag truck, built sbc, stickies, decent converter, and he's still using the stock S10 rear end (7.5?). I told him it'd never work, he wanted to see how long it'd last...that was several years ago...

chappy48 · 10-13-2009, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1320junkie

and what makes you say thats a myth?

Wasn't saying it was a myth, just put it out there that a reputable car mag was saying it was a myth, and touting Ford engineers as the ones to say so. Maybe it's just something particular to the GT500...I don't know

Just curious if anyone has actually done some serious testing on this ie. compared equivalent rear suspension setups for the quickest down the track.

chevy454 · 10-14-2009, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chappy48

Wasn't saying it was a myth, just put it out there that a reputable car mag was saying it was a myth, and touting Ford engineers as the ones to say so. Maybe it's just something particular to the GT500...I don't know

Just curious if anyone has actually done some serious testing on this ie. compared equivalent rear suspension setups for the quickest down the track.

The extra joints of the IRS system are gonna add resistance...I know from our older Corvette stuff that geometry is super critical an IRS setup. A minute amount of drag/friction doesn't sound like much in a daily driver setup, but I know in our race stuff we've picked up just by paying attention to brake/bearing drag, axle/housing runout, etc. I'm sure the drivetrain engineers @ the Big 3 could tell you in a second which setup is more efficient...and for my own curiosity, from a simple static weight standpoint, I wonder which setup would come out on top? Anyone have any poundage numbers on the 5th gen IRS setup vs. say a 4th gen solid axle, or even 12 bolt replacement?

ShadowSky · 10-26-2009, 01:48 PM

The only Real enemy to IRS is wheel hope and axle strength.

Gm 12s are not bad if they are built right, and pinion depth and lash is set correctly. I have saw 10 bolts make it to the 9s!
Sadly i was not one of them, the fasted i was able to get a 10 bolt to was 11.0s.

9'' are the bad boys on the block, cause that have 3 teeth in constant connection where others have 2. The street guy hardly races his car a 9 might be over kill cause of the gearing robs you of rwhp. For a hard core guy or a guy going with the plan of adding gobs of hp, it a insurance that you have a damn near bulletproof rear end..

speedster · 10-26-2009, 02:01 PM

There are guys on here developing 12 bolt center sections, 33 spline axles, 300M stubs, etc. I was going to provide them my stock rearend to use as a template, but the SST Camaro is stuck in the chassis shop and neither me nor the engine builder can get to it. I hope to get the car back soon. It is overdue.

Q-ship · 10-28-2009, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THUMPER20X

I blew at 4 10bolts in my 93. Two were built with axles and some really awesome parts. You cant beat the 9". I was running 400hp and Drag radials. 10bolt is absolute crap.

You do know that there are more than one GM 10 bolt, the one in the 3rd and 4th gen F-body was the 7.5 (the glass jaw of the 10 bolts). The G-body used the 7.5 but the GN's got the good 8.5 that is the same rear axle used in 1/2 ton trucks. Then there was the 10 bolt from the early years 64 - 71 Camaro and Chevelle that are OK but not as strong as the 12 bolt. Do not compare the weak a$$ POS that was in your 93 as any indication of the strenght of all 10 bolts. The 12 bolt is every bit as strong as the 9" in most ways, the 9" is a bit easier to modify into many applications (sheet metal housing that is weaker) and gear changes are easier to do if you have complete center sections. The 12 has some stronger things than a 9" like larger pinion gear and bearings, the ring gear is only 1/8" smaller than the 9" and it is requires less HP to drive. As a complete rear axle the 12 bolt is lighter than the 9" even though the housing in actually stronger (sheet metal housing requires braces to keep from distoring), the weakness of the 12 is the axles and the c-clips. To put it in prespective, DeFranks used not a 9" or a Dana 60 in his Hemi AA/SS Baracuda....any guess what was in them? Thats right the 12 bolt GM.

xlr8nova · 11-01-2009, 05:58 PM

It would have been WAY easier to build a fabbed 9" center section. We could of had them done 10 times over by now. We're still getting the new shop going as time and money allows. I don't think we'll be able to make the December PRI show for our prototype, we're experiencing too many delays. However, if any of you guys here of a wrecked SS that we can possibly buy the center section from let me know. We are GM guys and thought you fellows would appreciate GM parts in your Camaros.

autopat · 11-17-2009, 11:24 PM

Q-ship is correct, there are in fact several different "10 bolts" out there. There is the POS 7.5 in all 3rd and 4th gens, and that includes the aussie 9-bolt, there is the 64-71 8.2" POS. Then there is the tried and true 8.5", which has been in use in almost every GM car and truck, at one time or another. I have seen this rear end deal with an honest 650hp, at the wheels, now granted that's after some mods (IE better axles,fully welded tubes, spool or Detroit locker), but they do live and thrive in that environment. I have also seen 12 bolts (8.875") blow up behind a 6 cylinder in a 1/2 ton short bed truck, but I've also seen them live behind 600 lb/ft, under a big block Chevelle. It all depends on what you like, the 9" is a stout piece, no question, but there are alternatives out there that may be easier to find/adapt/pay for. Just depends on how much power you want, and how deep your pockets are.

strobi · 11-21-2009, 07:14 PM

makes NO Sense to me, absolutely NUTZ!

xlr8nova · 12-15-2009, 04:41 AM

The 12-bolt replacement we are going to offer will only be offered with 33-up spline carriers. Axle manufacturers will only warranty axle shafts that are 33 spline and larger. Moser is also developing a straight axle conversion. They are experiencing the reason we headed in the IRS direction. Fuel tank/ Frame rail placement is a major issue. To do the straight axle conversion bottom line; you WILL have to cut your car, you WILL have to move put a fuel cell in your car, it WILL be very expensive.

10-13-2009, 02:22 AM	#44
THUMPER20X GM fix my PAINT U suck! Drives: 2010 Black 1SS/RS 6Spd Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Great Red North Posts: 1,856	The solid axle does have advantages. However. I would not even bother at all unless it was Ford 9" The 10-12bolt is a pile IMO. The 9 is a superior piece in strength, durability and ease of gear change and setups. __________________

10-26-2009, 01:48 PM	#50
ShadowSky Drives: 97 Z28,92 25th RS, 91 LX,82 GT Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: MI / TX Posts: 43	The only Real enemy to IRS is wheel hope and axle strength. Gm 12s are not bad if they are built right, and pinion depth and lash is set correctly. I have saw 10 bolts make it to the 9s! Sadly i was not one of them, the fasted i was able to get a 10 bolt to was 11.0s. 9'' are the bad boys on the block, cause that have 3 teeth in constant connection where others have 2. The street guy hardly races his car a 9 might be over kill cause of the gearing robs you of rwhp. For a hard core guy or a guy going with the plan of adding gobs of hp, it a insurance that you have a damn near bulletproof rear end.. __________________ Sky Boost Or Die!!! 82 gt 92 25 anny RS among others

10-26-2009, 02:01 PM	#51
speedster SST... Drives: SST Camaro 2010 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: East Coast of Florida Posts: 5,927 View My Garage	There are guys on here developing 12 bolt center sections, 33 spline axles, 300M stubs, etc. I was going to provide them my stock rearend to use as a template, but the SST Camaro is stuck in the chassis shop and neither me nor the engine builder can get to it. I hope to get the car back soon. It is overdue. __________________ Last edited by speedster; 10-27-2009 at 08:20 PM.

11-17-2009, 11:24 PM	#54
autopat Drives: 2010 IOM 2SS Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Casa Grande, AZ. Posts: 111	Q-ship is correct, there are in fact several different "10 bolts" out there. There is the POS 7.5 in all 3rd and 4th gens, and that includes the aussie 9-bolt, there is the 64-71 8.2" POS. Then there is the tried and true 8.5", which has been in use in almost every GM car and truck, at one time or another. I have seen this rear end deal with an honest 650hp, at the wheels, now granted that's after some mods (IE better axles,fully welded tubes, spool or Detroit locker), but they do live and thrive in that environment. I have also seen 12 bolts (8.875") blow up behind a 6 cylinder in a 1/2 ton short bed truck, but I've also seen them live behind 600 lb/ft, under a big block Chevelle. It all depends on what you like, the 9" is a stout piece, no question, but there are alternatives out there that may be easier to find/adapt/pay for. Just depends on how much power you want, and how deep your pockets are. __________________ So many projects... so little time. 2010 2SS, IOM, IOI, CGM stripes, L99 1999 Astro van, LS 1995 Saturn SC2 1994 Saturn SC1 1992 Saturn SL2 1991 Daihatsu HiJet 1981 C10 Beater, with a heater, er..A/C 1973 Nova SS, 385 stroker, TH400, FOR SALE! (soon) 1966 Suburban, LS bound! Still in a million pieces 1965 C-10, Short, Wide, Big window, all roller 355

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11-01-2009, 05:58 PM	#53
xlr8nova Drives: nova Join Date: May 2009 Location: whitehall Posts: 15	It would have been WAY easier to build a fabbed 9" center section. We could of had them done 10 times over by now. We're still getting the new shop going as time and money allows. I don't think we'll be able to make the December PRI show for our prototype, we're experiencing too many delays. However, if any of you guys here of a wrecked SS that we can possibly buy the center section from let me know. We are GM guys and thought you fellows would appreciate GM parts in your Camaros.

11-21-2009, 07:14 PM	#55
strobi MJ STROH Drives: 2010 Camaro 2LTRS Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Buffalo, WY Posts: 185 View My Garage	makes NO Sense to me, absolutely NUTZ!

12-15-2009, 04:41 AM	#56
xlr8nova Drives: nova Join Date: May 2009 Location: whitehall Posts: 15	The 12-bolt replacement we are going to offer will only be offered with 33-up spline carriers. Axle manufacturers will only warranty axle shafts that are 33 spline and larger. Moser is also developing a straight axle conversion. They are experiencing the reason we headed in the IRS direction. Fuel tank/ Frame rail placement is a major issue. To do the straight axle conversion bottom line; you WILL have to cut your car, you WILL have to move put a fuel cell in your car, it WILL be very expensive.