11-12-2021, 06:24 AM | #1 |
Drives: 2011 Camaro SS 6sp Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Drivers Seat
Posts: 1,905
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Trading Torque for Horsepower. Intakes and powerbands
I've got about 1100 miles on the new 427 setup and I'm considering changing intake manifolds. I know the stock intake can support plenty of power. I think a member here has made 1700whp through it. However that doesn't mean all aftermarket intakes don't have their place.
I seem to have a plethora of torque, especially with the new 3.73 gear. I still drive the car on the street occasionally, and traction is still an issue. I have to drive with 12psi in the rear tires to get any traction at all. Only after a burnout can i do 60 rolls at full power. I'm going to use my last dyno chart for a visual aid. This dyno is from a previous impeller wheel in the same blower. (The new impeller design should make a little more power, but I haven't dyno'd it.) I'm curious if a change of intake only, (not swapping my cam) would shift the powerband up more. Even if it costs me some torque down low. See how the power stops climbing at 6000rpms and starts to fall off? Is this a characteristic of Intake manifold or Camshaft? A friend of mine swapped his stock intake for a holley hi ram. He went from 750 to 830 and lost 0 torque. I think he gained a few actually. 416 p1sc, e85. I'm thinking there is another 100whp to gain just with an intake swap. What do you guys think? Anyone have any before and after charts of intake comparisons?
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2011 Camaro SS---SOLD
TMS Dart 427 FED M311s, ESS Tuning G4 Blower, DSX Triple FP Assembly, DSX FF, FIC1300, Mcleod RXT 1200HD, Edlebrock Pro Flo XT 1158whp 1017wtq. 2010 CTS-V A6 - "Stock" SOLD 630whp 658wtq 2024 F-150 RCSB 5.0 4x4 waiting for tunes... |
11-12-2021, 07:43 AM | #2 |
Drives: 2014 1SS/1LE Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 828
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Given your extra displacement and heads, I'd be surprised if that wasn't the intake manifold holding you back, especially at higher rpm.
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11-12-2021, 08:11 AM | #3 |
Drives: 2014 Camaro SS/RS 1LE 1967 Camaro Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 873
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I'm with Larry. With your cubes and heads I would say the intake is a little under sized and you may notice a nice gain switching it up. I'll be following, as always, and good luck.
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11-12-2021, 08:44 AM | #4 |
Served USN - Atomic Chimp
Drives: 2021 Camaro ZL1 1LE A10 (stock) Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Posts: 1,642
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Since I wanted to push more boost than I thought the stock LS3 manifold could take, I first purchased a Fast LSXr but didn't install it as BTR was touting the new cast Equalizer which I figured I'd try. This chart is from the start of a dyno tune several years ago but the session was stopped well short due to finding (actually, the dyno found) a nail in one of my rear tires. One huge difference for me is how hot the Equalizer gets, and it does heat soak my injectors if I shutdown, wait 10-45 minutes. I'm working on my ITT tables that many tuners zero out (that's a no-no). Time to finish a real dyno tune to see what the setup will make.
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> 2021 Camaro ZL1 1LE A10 - power upgrades in the initial design phase > > Past Builds: 2013 Twin-Turbo LSX434 M6 - 1,359rwhp daily |
11-12-2021, 10:33 AM | #5 |
Drives: 2011 Camaro SS 6sp Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Drivers Seat
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I appreciate the feedback people. Dreksnot, no offense, but I can't really draw a conclusion from the chart, based on all the variables. I'm sure things would look very different had you finished tuning. Besides, our setups are drastically different as far as power curves go.
Does the BTR move the TB position? it's half the price of the LOD...
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2011 Camaro SS---SOLD
TMS Dart 427 FED M311s, ESS Tuning G4 Blower, DSX Triple FP Assembly, DSX FF, FIC1300, Mcleod RXT 1200HD, Edlebrock Pro Flo XT 1158whp 1017wtq. 2010 CTS-V A6 - "Stock" SOLD 630whp 658wtq 2024 F-150 RCSB 5.0 4x4 waiting for tunes... |
11-12-2021, 11:29 AM | #6 |
Drives: 2011 Camaro SS 6sp Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Drivers Seat
Posts: 1,905
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Goals
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2011 Camaro SS---SOLD
TMS Dart 427 FED M311s, ESS Tuning G4 Blower, DSX Triple FP Assembly, DSX FF, FIC1300, Mcleod RXT 1200HD, Edlebrock Pro Flo XT 1158whp 1017wtq. 2010 CTS-V A6 - "Stock" SOLD 630whp 658wtq 2024 F-150 RCSB 5.0 4x4 waiting for tunes... |
11-12-2021, 12:07 PM | #7 | |
Served USN - Atomic Chimp
Drives: 2021 Camaro ZL1 1LE A10 (stock) Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Posts: 1,642
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Quote:
Yes, the TB is slightly more forward (toward the front of the car) and has a slightly up angle (maybe 15-20deg).
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> 2021 Camaro ZL1 1LE A10 - power upgrades in the initial design phase > > Past Builds: 2013 Twin-Turbo LSX434 M6 - 1,359rwhp daily |
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11-12-2021, 02:19 PM | #8 |
Drives: 2013 ZL1 Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Virginia
Posts: 55
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The stock LS3 manifold is really good on stock cube NA stuff. It works well on boosted stuff up to maybe 750hp.
Beyond that, youre giving up a fair amount against the Holley or similar. |
11-13-2021, 01:03 PM | #9 |
2&THEHIT
Drives: 5th Gen Camaro; 5th Gen Ram 3500 Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Garner, NC
Posts: 1,032
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Just do an elbow on a Victor and run a 105mm tb. Way cheaper than the LOD or Holley.
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11-13-2021, 05:30 PM | #10 |
Drives: Red Jewel Camaro SS Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: East Coast
Posts: 396
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Do you think the blower is big enough to feed the 427 at higher RPM ?
I'm not familiar with your blower setup. I went with bigger turbo's and the BTR to change the powerband on mind,which it did and I love it.But still can't put big power down on the street till 90+mph on 20" Drag radials, It's better with the 17". Before I peaked around the same as you at 5500-5600RPM, now it pulls hard till 7000rpm(1100RWHP so far with a 6L90) which is perfect for me and still does 900+ rwtq between 4500-5500RPM. But if I want more,then I'll have to go with bigger turbo's again.
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11-13-2021, 06:48 PM | #11 |
Drives: 2013 zl1 vert Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Rochester, New york
Posts: 1,048
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Have you looked into this?
https://frankensteined.net/shop/low-...take-manifold/ Rpm makes great power with them.
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22% lower/ 2.5 upper/ 2” headers/ cat delete/ x-pipe/ 2 gallon x tank/ 100-3 pump/ fic 1300/ dsx aux kit/ 103mm throttle body/ RPM 5” intake/ meth kit/ prometh lid injection/FI interchiller/ 160* stat/ ngk-7/ msd wires/ elite catch can/ tsp cam/ Che trunnions/ ported supercharger/ 1/2” lid spacer/ brick mod/BMR toe and trailing arms/ 751hp 757 tq SAE @17.3lb on a loaded dyno.
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11-13-2021, 07:11 PM | #12 |
Drives: 2013 zl1 vert Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Rochester, New york
Posts: 1,048
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https://youtu.be/YgftEd96Alc
Different motor but gives you a comparison between intakes and dyno numbers.
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22% lower/ 2.5 upper/ 2” headers/ cat delete/ x-pipe/ 2 gallon x tank/ 100-3 pump/ fic 1300/ dsx aux kit/ 103mm throttle body/ RPM 5” intake/ meth kit/ prometh lid injection/FI interchiller/ 160* stat/ ngk-7/ msd wires/ elite catch can/ tsp cam/ Che trunnions/ ported supercharger/ 1/2” lid spacer/ brick mod/BMR toe and trailing arms/ 751hp 757 tq SAE @17.3lb on a loaded dyno.
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11-14-2021, 10:16 AM | #13 | ||
Drives: 2011 Camaro SS 6sp Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Drivers Seat
Posts: 1,905
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Quote:
Quote:
__________________
2011 Camaro SS---SOLD
TMS Dart 427 FED M311s, ESS Tuning G4 Blower, DSX Triple FP Assembly, DSX FF, FIC1300, Mcleod RXT 1200HD, Edlebrock Pro Flo XT 1158whp 1017wtq. 2010 CTS-V A6 - "Stock" SOLD 630whp 658wtq 2024 F-150 RCSB 5.0 4x4 waiting for tunes... |
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11-14-2021, 10:18 AM | #14 |
Drives: 2011 Camaro SS 6sp Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Drivers Seat
Posts: 1,905
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Will that require cutting the hood?
__________________
2011 Camaro SS---SOLD
TMS Dart 427 FED M311s, ESS Tuning G4 Blower, DSX Triple FP Assembly, DSX FF, FIC1300, Mcleod RXT 1200HD, Edlebrock Pro Flo XT 1158whp 1017wtq. 2010 CTS-V A6 - "Stock" SOLD 630whp 658wtq 2024 F-150 RCSB 5.0 4x4 waiting for tunes... |
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