My Camaro went home to Oshawa to die......

[mercedestech]

I have a 3 bolt and its set in 0.123, here you go.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the measurement! I want to compare the length of the pin on a stock cam vs. the lenghth of the pin on a single bolt comp cam to try and figure out if that is the problem. If his pin was set in .121" like your 3 bolt, I think the witness marks on the bolt and face of the gear would be more even like was said. The underside of that bolt shows the pin was protruding past the face of the cam gear preventing the bolt from properly tightening down against the face of the cam gear. This could be the whole reason this single bolt design is failing on comp cam equipped ls3's but no one has seen a factory cam gear spin on a factory cam even though it is the same design (yes I realize there is more stress on the design thanks to increased spring load, heavier push rods etc with the aftermarket set ups)

[Huggerorange73]

Originally Posted by mercedestech

I have a 3 bolt and its set in 0.123, here you go.

Thanks for the measurement! I want to compare the length of the pin on a stock cam vs. the lenghth of the pin on a single bolt comp cam to try and figure out if that is the problem. If his pin was set in .121" like your 3 bolt, I think the witness marks on the bolt and face of the gear would be more even like was said. The underside of that bolt shows the pin was protruding past the face of the cam gear preventing the bolt from properly tightening down against the face of the cam gear. This could be the whole reason this single bolt design is failing on comp cam equipped ls3's but no one has seen a factory cam gear spin on a factory cam even though it is the same design (yes I realize there is more stress on the design thanks to increased spring load, heavier push rods etc with the aftermarket set ups)[/QUOTE]

Indeed....now we're getting somewhere!!!!!

[SSBUSDRVR]

As precision as a cam is ground, I'd be absolutely stunned if the pin length was a culprit.

That would be like building a spaceship and forgetting to put drinking water in when they launch. Hahaha

Not saying that's not it but if so I'd say it's as embarrassing as it gets.

When a human factor is somewhere involved in the process remember even the best can make mistakes. Back in 1999 the loss of the Mars Orbiter was due to using and confusing US standards instead of Metrics. Nav Computers were loaded with wrong measurements of force and even after numerous checks this error was not caught and the vehicle burnt up on entry. Not saying this happened here but a simple measurement error could have been input into the machining program and out comes the wrong size part.

[2SSRS@Gen5diy]

Originally Posted by mercedestech

I have a 3 bolt and its set in 0.123, here you go.

Thanks for the measurement! I want to compare the length of the pin on a stock cam vs. the lenghth of the pin on a single bolt comp cam to try and figure out if that is the problem. If his pin was set in .121" like your 3 bolt, I think the witness marks on the bolt and face of the gear would be more even like was said. The underside of that bolt shows the pin was protruding past the face of the cam gear preventing the bolt from properly tightening down against the face of the cam gear. This could be the whole reason this single bolt design is failing on comp cam equipped ls3's but no one has seen a factory cam gear spin on a factory cam even though it is the same design (yes I realize there is more stress on the design thanks to increased spring load, heavier push rods etc with the aftermarket set ups)[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Huggerorange73

Indeed....now we're getting somewhere!!!!!

Here are 3 pics that i found on here, in the DIY threads from "robertway"
doing a cam swap, this is pics of the factory cam as it come's from GM, as you can see it's sits under the bolt, It looks to me like 1/8" or so.

If this is the case any one that has a 1 bolt it may be a smart move to check your setup.

[Huggerorange73]

I think we may have found the reason for this failure.

Again, from the naked eye....it would appear that my factory cam pin would sit exactly like the pin in the image.

[2SSRS@Gen5diy]

Originally Posted by Huggerorange73

I think we may have found the reason for this failure.

Again, from the naked eye....it would appear that my factory cam pin would sit exactly like the pin in the image.

I think we may have, the last thing to see if this is so, can you try this on the cam, see if you can set the pin any further in the cam with a punch and small hammer if it does not then the pin was not letting the sprocket sit flat on the cam.

[mikeSS]

ok i am no expert, just have been following the thread. half the things said here i do not understand. so was anybody at fault here, you not upgrading what you should have ? or shop not doing install right ? or a failed after market part ? or failed stock part ?

again i am a noob at this kind of stuff.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by Huggerorange73

Randy...as you well know...ANYTHING is possible!

Speculation is rarely accurate. Hahaha

Originally Posted by mercedestech

I would hate to think the 3 or 4 engines that have pics posted here from single bolt comp cam equipped failures were because comp made the pin .100" to long. And if that is the case, I sure hope they step up to help you guys out.

Could you guide me to those threads? I am trying to post them all in one spot in my engine failure thread.

Originally Posted by Padre

They never test fit it on an L99 and it doesn't clear the VVT bulges on the front cover. Called Meziere. "Really? Oops."

Padre

Hard to believe huh? Doesn't really give a great warm and fuzzy feeling in modding, does it?

Originally Posted by mercedestech

Diameter or length?

That's what she said.

Spike would be proud here. LOL

[2SSRS@Gen5diy]

That answer is what Lawyer's are for, there is more to find but IMO the installers did not do there Job and check the pin clearances but that is some thing most ppl don't check, and then there is liability on comp cam too, but you need to find more then one cam with this problem, that way you see if there one bolt cams have this problem with them.

[Huggerorange73]

Originally Posted by 2SSRS

That answer is what Lawyer's are for, there is more to find but IMO the installers did not do there Job and check the pin clearances but that is some thing most ppl don't check, and then there is liability on comp cam too, but you need to find more then one cam with this problem, that way you see if there one bolt cams have this problem with them.

Yup, 100% accurate.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by 2SSRS

I think we may have, the last thing to see if this is so, can you try this on the cam, see if you can set the pin any further in the cam with a punch and small hammer if it does not then the pin was not letting the sprocket sit flat on the cam.

My worry at that point would be the bolt not able to be tightened properly. Once the pin wore a grove in the bolt head, the bolt looses up even more.

[Camarowguy]

The bad thing hugger, is I can predict what comp cams is gonna tell you. They are going to tell you that you should have checked that. As much as it Sux, they have some bs disclaimer. It's still their fault either way. Might be worth a lawsuit if you could prove it.

[2SSRS@Gen5diy]

Originally Posted by Camarowguy

The bad thing hugger, is I can predict what comp cams is gonna tell you. They are going to tell you that you should have checked that. As much as it Sux, they have some bs disclaimer. It's still their fault either way. Might be worth a lawsuit if you could prove it.

+1 but that is why we need to find if any one has a one bolt comp cam that has a pin that sits to high.

hugger do you have the cam card? this may be a good way to find out, If we have a vender that has the same cam on the shelf to have them help you, by looking in to it.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by Camarowguy

The bad thing hugger, is I can predict what comp cams is gonna tell you. They are going to tell you that you should have checked that. As much as it Sux, they have some bs disclaimer. It's still their fault either way. Might be worth a lawsuit if you could prove it.

But if I'm understanding this correctly, the installer would have to have modified the cam it's self to properly instal it. Grind the pin down a bit. Right?