Motor Trend compares the ZL1 to the Boss 302 Laguna Seca

[ffrcobra_65]

Originally Posted by eric n

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...2_laguna_seca/

Mustang guy here saying OUTSTANDING job Chevy. The new ZL shows the LS Boss it's tail lights in a convincing manner while providing a more civil overall experience. Gotta love a CTS-V wrapped in muscle car skin. The gt500 will be an interesting match up as well, but will extra hp be enough with the Camaro's more sophistocated suspension???

Either way competition will improve the breed as it always has.

Before you Chevy guys start ragging the stang please remember I never ragged the Camaro when EVERY car magazine had the GT as a superior car to the SS. Again competition makes all things better.

Quoting the legend Stan Lee EXCELSIOR!

only the narrow-minded fanboys wear rags.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by buzzy56

Just received my march issue of Hot Rod Magazine.Interesting write up on the 2013 Shelby GT .Very impressive dyno numbers to say the least.Dumped out at 650 HP at 6,250 rpms & 670 HP at 7,000 Rpm redline.Don't know about you but this surely got my attention.Rather pricey at around $60,000.00 but sounds like you get a lot for your money!Don't get me wrong I am a chevy man thru & thru , but I love all the competition.Just like the good old sixties.Everybody competing,track & street.Can't beat it.

I can't wait for these issues to come out. I want to see some reviews!!!

To your post - I'm more interested in the chassis. There are going to be fine improvements, for sure. While I think these improvements are going to make the Snake faster, I'm not sure it might be that much. If we're talking about a short track, I don't know that there's going to be a huge advantage, because without some straights to make use of that power, I'm not sure how well it will be applied when not going somewhat straight.

There are still too many questions - still questions for ZL1, but even more for the GT500. I still have a feeling bumping power in ZL1 would more than even out the field, and it wouldn't have to even be as high as 650. That wouldn't be an apples-to-apples comparison though if where're going to talk about stock cars at this point though.

Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65

the '13GT500 is going to be quite a surprise. I highly doubt it will start at $60k when the previous model started at <$50k base.

It seems hard to believe they'd make such a big jump, too. I mean - I suppose that power could justify the price, but Ford just hasn't given me the sense that it's a lot more than power. Yes - I recall gear ratio changes, adjustable shocks, bigger brakes, and some aero' improvements, but aren't gear changes really only going to be beneficial, or biased to some tracks, somewhat? What's good at a long track is not as good as a short track. Drag racers do this to optimize 1320' times. The adjustable shocks are not active, so they could be limited to certain track tuning, too, no? Bigger brakes make total sense and GREAT! The aero' tricks seem more toward achieving a higher top speed, but if some downforce isn't applied, it seems to me that could get dangerous.

Eh - I'm just loving that the Boss was knocked down and eager to see the '12 and '13 GT500 comparisons. Who knows what GM will do to respond

[The IOM Ninja]

Originally Posted by SSmoked

5.8L is new, the new suspension, the new brakes, the new gearing, the new track stuff, new cooling options, yea i expect the price to rocket up. remember ford is throwing around 650hp and 200mph u gotta pay to play

1. the 5.8 is not new it's the same engine it's just been modified to its maximum displacement, 2. All that other stuff is optional meaning, get this, you DON'T have to get it. Most people will only need it with the SVT Performance Pack and not the Track Pack (everything but the cooling and track apps) and 3. Ford has said the car is built to appeal to 3 separate audiences, those that want the car just to drive around town, the drag racers, and the track stars. Ford has a lot more optional things and it allows for more people to afford it, with the ZL1 it's pretty much Chevy's way or the highway.

[eric n]

Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65

only the narrow-minded fanboys wear rags.

You have 3 exceedingly nice cars. If you're ever going to be out of town for a month or so and need someone to blow the carbon off the plugs, I'M YOUR MAN!

[Grabber]

Originally Posted by The IOM Ninja

1. the 5.8 is not new it's the same engine it's just been modified to its maximum displacement, 2. All that other stuff is optional meaning, get this, you DON'T have to get it. Most people will only need it with the SVT Performance Pack and not the Track Pack (everything but the cooling and track apps) and 3. Ford has said the car is built to appeal to 3 separate audiences, those that want the car just to drive around town, the drag racers, and the track stars. Ford has a lot more optional things and it allows for more people to afford it, with the ZL1 it's pretty much Chevy's way or the highway.

Last I checked, everything revised and added is standard on the 13' GT500. The SVTPP option is an optional suspension package. However, the GT500 will come standard with the revised suspension, TR6060, the cooling additions, 1 piece CF driveshaft, Torsen Diff, 3.31 Gears, etc.

[ffrcobra_65]

Originally Posted by The IOM Ninja

1. the 5.8 is not new it's the same engine it's just been modified to its maximum displacement, 2. All that other stuff is optional meaning, get this, you DON'T have to get it. Most people will only need it with the SVT Performance Pack and not the Track Pack (everything but the cooling and track apps) and 3. Ford has said the car is built to appeal to 3 separate audiences, those that want the car just to drive around town, the drag racers, and the track stars. Ford has a lot more optional things and it allows for more people to afford it, with the ZL1 it's pretty much Chevy's way or the highway.

good post and very informative to the blind-about-the-GT500 posters who post without researching their topic first.
If I get one, it will be with the SVT PP...I prefer techical driving than going balls out for 10 seconds. 650hp is more than enough to go 1/4 mile fast...no need for special option for that. Put DRs and watch the F out!

[The IOM Ninja]

Originally Posted by Grabber

Last I checked, everything revised and added is standard on the 13' GT500. The SVTPP option is an optional suspension package. However, the GT500 will come standard with the revised suspension, TR6060, the cooling additions, 1 piece CF driveshaft, Torsen Diff, 3.31 Gears, etc.

The Torsen comes with the SVTPP as well as the Bilsten dampeners, the gears are for sure standard though, I'm pretty sure the suspension is the same as the 2012 unless you get the Bilsten dampeners because I've read the ride is almost unbearably stiff with them on sport so it would make sense for it to be a bit looser for a daily drivability.

[The IOM Ninja]

Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65

good post and very informative to the blind-about-the-GT500 posters who post without researching their topic first.
If I get one, it will be with the SVT PP...I prefer techical driving than going balls out for 10 seconds. 650hp is more than enough to go 1/4 mile fast...no need for special option for that. Put DRs and watch the F out!

Thanks, isn't that the way of the world though? People wanting to debate things but not bringing proper information to the debate.

[ffrcobra_65]

Originally Posted by eric n

You have 3 exceedingly nice cars. If you're ever going to be out of town for a month or so and need someone to blow the carbon off the plugs, I'M YOUR MAN!

Thanks. The FFR (blue one) is gone. Gonna build another FFR soon (silver with black stripes this time around). You ever go to Willow Springs?

[Grabber]

Originally Posted by The IOM Ninja

The Torsen comes with the SVTPP as well as the Bilsten dampeners, the gears are for sure standard though, I'm pretty sure the suspension is the same as the 2012 unless you get the Bilsten dampeners because I've read the ride is almost unbearably stiff with them on sport so it would make sense for it to be a bit looser for a daily drivability.

Hmmm.

Could've sworn I read in either FF&MM or another article that the Torsen was stock, but the suspension and dampeners were all optional.

Guess we will wait and see.

[mgoodbar]

Originally Posted by Swacer

This article has made more justification to why Motor Trend is junk. Comparing a supercharged ZL-1 to a slightly tuned/naturally aspirated version of the Mustang GT. This was stupid.

I was provided with only the following:

1. The GT500 was either not provided to Motor Trend for this, or they were afraid how poorly the outcome would be.

2. I'm a little scared that a supercharged Camaro can only marginally defeat a tuned Mustang GT. So either Ford did great, or GM didn't do enough?

3. I learned some nice things about the components that make up the ZL-1. But that about it.

Other than that....MT junk. Not hating...just...disappointed.

funny has any one seen the you tube video of them putting the GT500 against the SS.. I think they did several test like this

[eric n]

Never been to willow, but it's so close it seems like a sin not to make some time this summer.

[IOMZL1]

Originally Posted by radz28

Yes - I recall gear ratio changes, adjustable shocks, bigger brakes, and some aero' improvements, but aren't gear changes really only going to be beneficial, or biased to some tracks, somewhat? What's good at a long track is not as good as a short track. Drag racers do this to optimize 1320' times. The adjustable shocks are not active, so they could be limited to certain track tuning, too, no? Bigger brakes make total sense and GREAT! The aero' tricks seem more toward achieving a higher top speed, but if some downforce isn't applied, it seems to me that could get dangerous.

I’m sure Ford did all they could reasonably do on the handling but they seemed to have focused on the 0-60, ¼ mile, and top speed. They knew they could beat GM there by going to 650 and maybe they decided that was good enough. They know ZL1 can’t trump ZR1 and they knock off ZR1 in the HP war at the same time. The 2103 GT500 – best horsepower, higher top speed, better acceleration than the ZL1… to the average person it has won the battle. Even to over half of the people on these forums they’ve won the battle. That is a victory for Ford.

To some people, the real test is on the track and not the drag strip. I still predict the ZL1 to hold its own to the GT500 on most road course tracks unless you get multiple super long straights and a lower ratio of turns. I’d say the ZL1 won’t be beat by the Shelby in the low speed cornering, braking, and even the high speed turns because of its downforce. I think the ZL1 won’t be topped in driver confidence by the GT500. This alone could produce faster times even if the potential for the GT500 to be faster is there.

In 2015 that all changes and Ford / Chevy can reset, but everyone has ‘made their bed’ so to speak now with these last few years of these existing chassis.

[mgoodbar]

GT-500 hmm.. im not worried. the 2011 GT-500 only beat a SS in the 1/4 by 2 10's.. Adding power to a GT-500 is not going to help the matter.. Funny how people get upset when some folks test a car's.. no one said anything when they put a GT-500 up against a SS.. but they put a ZL1 against a 302.. and it OMG look how un fair that is..