(jalopnik) Chevy’s Anti-GT500, Pro-Camaro ZL1 Smack-Talking Powerpoint

[evolve]

Originally Posted by SIRLOIN

Uh oh spaghetti oh's...lol! If this is true, im gonna go out on a limb and say something i haven't said before. The ZL1 could not only have its hands full in a straight line, but around a track as well...very full! If this ends up happening, i would be totally surprised as i expected the Z to be pretty dominant around a track, and the Shelby to be dominant in the straights. Thats HUGE, if true, that the 13 'vert' Shelby is 3 seconds faster around the track than the 2011 PP Shelby 'coupe'...
Does that mean we could see the 13 'coupe' 4-6 seconds,(maybe more) faster than the 11 PP 'coupe'?

I wonder what JusticePete's thoughts are about this?

This is what I had in mind when I posted it

[Frankzl1]

For my Mustangs friends, it sounds like is falling apart lol

[evolve]

Thanks^^ Cant wait to see it in person

[tooslow]

Originally Posted by mlee

There's a reason the Camaro is heavier than the Mustang.. it's BIGGER... hence more comfortable for the larger folks

Interior dimensions on both cars are virtually the same. Camaro is a bigger car, but does not offer more interior room.

[SIRLOIN]

Originally Posted by Frankzl1

For my Mustangs friends, it sounds like is falling apart lol

O.M.G! That is nuts! Scared the crap out me just watching that thing with the top down on the track like that... Dude has serious balls...

Sounds incredible as well...

As for it sounding like it's falling apart, im sure the top down contributed to alot of that noise, but who knows? It is a Ford...
Maybe the top bounces around alot when down like the 5thGen vert has had problems with...
Going around a track at speeds/bumps like that, in vert, one would assume it would be pretty noisy.

[MauriSSio]

Originally Posted by Ltespd

Its about damn time!!

i doubt we're gonna get all the info we really want.

Originally Posted by evolve

You've driven a ZL1? Ive sat in both and have pros and cons about each. Some info recently discovered about the '13 vert:

We’ve already heard that the 2013 GT500 droptop will be limited to a relatively poky 155MPH. That’s probably for the best, really. It’s much safer to roll a convertible over at 155 than it would be at, say, a buck-ninety.

During the press conference, however, we heard an interesting factoid, one that got us interested enough to sucker-punch SVT’s Jamal Hameedi for a brief Q-and-A:

Hau Thai-Tang told the press that the 2013 convertible with the SVT Performance Pack, which includes driver-adjustable Bilstein shocks to help the pony posse get over their ZL1 Magnaride envy, is “three seconds faster than the outgoing coupe.”

What does that mean? Mr. Hameedi was happy to help: the 2013 Performance Package convertible is about three seconds a lap ahead of the 2011 Performance Package coupe around Sebring. “Which,” he chuckled, “should give you an idea of where we will be with the coupe.”
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...d/#more-429991

The 2011 ran a 2:58.48 in the hands of SVT, and 3:04.0 in the hands of Car and Driver. Thoughts?

wowzers. 3 seconds is a big improvement, especially with the GT500 CONVERTIBLE. Still, makes me wonder if that was with the stock tires or maybe some proper tires. Either way thats quite an improvement.

[MauriSSio]

Originally Posted by SIRLOIN

O.M.G! That is nuts! Scared the crap out me just watching that thing with the top down on the track like that... Dude has serious balls...

Sounds incredible as well...

As for it sounding like it's falling apart, im sure the top down contributed to alot of that noise, but who knows? It is a Ford...
Maybe the top bounces around alot when down like the 5thGen vert has had problems with...
Going around a track at speeds/bumps like that, in vert, one would assume it would be pretty noisy.

a lot of that noise sounded like wind noise. im not gonna lie, Video looked crazy, 650hp street car on a twisty track looks pretty scary

[Black5thgen]

Originally Posted by hognutz

I don't really think you work in lean or JIT by the way you describe it. When you go to the classes they really drive home designing to be lean and if a customer is not willing to pay for an option you don't offer it. If you can't charge for it and someone won't pay for it why are you doing it.

tell me what is the overal cost of adding another engine configuration with forged internals to the lineup?

if 5k is too Much (wich it very well could be) what is an accurate figure?

you do realize one you study lean and go that way you will have JIT by the nature of what lean means. toyota uses what they call the toyota production system which is based of of lean. Everybody in the industry has been racing to try to implement that methodology. auto manufacturers, I even did a lean event at a frieghliner truck plant that build custom trucks ha ha.

I can tell you I don't know the number but it is not simpley the cost delta of the the part increase + labor by a long shot.

the LSA vs LS9 is a perfect example, different rods, different pistons, different blower and intercooler, and difffernt cam I think. the cost delta in the parts is probably 2-3k the engine cost way more than that to purchase.

Although I no longer work in lean manufacturing I interned at Caterpillar and have a BS in Integrated Manufacturing. I know work in R&D for a bio-med custom molder. As far as I know it, the basis for lean manufacturing it to cut inventory and increase profit. Correct? Also if you can attract more customers by offering a superior product then you also drive up profit. The fact of the matter is that there is no "new" components, sub assemblies or operations that have to be used here. They already order the forged parts for the same size engine. I'm not saying to make an LS9 because obviously the cost benefit isn't there. The cost maybe 2-3K but there's a lot more R&D and labor that goes into that engine. For the LSA the R&D is almost done and the labor rate remains the same. At this point I would pay 2-3K more for forged internals and that would easily cover the cost plus some.

[mlee]

Originally Posted by tooslow

Interior dimensions on both cars are virtually the same. Camaro is a bigger car, but does not offer more interior room.

True, but the Camaro offers more hip and sholder room which is where it counts most... Another reason I drive a Camaro and not a Vette...

[Frankzl1]

Originally Posted by MauriSSio

a lot of that noise sounded like wind noise. im not gonna lie, Video looked crazy, 650hp street car on a twisty track looks pretty scary

[calbert1999]

Originally Posted by Black5thgen

Although I no longer work in lean manufacturing I interned at Caterpillar and have a BS in Integrated Manufacturing. I know work in R&D for a bio-med custom molder. As far as I know it, the basis for lean manufacturing it to cut inventory and increase profit. Correct? Also if you can attract more customers by offering a superior product then you also drive up profit. The fact of the matter is that there is no "new" components, sub assemblies or operations that have to be used here. They already order the forged parts for the same size engine. I'm not saying to make an LS9 because obviously the cost benefit isn't there. The cost maybe 2-3K but there's a lot more R&D and labor that goes into that engine. For the LSA the R&D is almost done and the labor rate remains the same. At this point I would pay 2-3K more for forged internals and that would easily cover the cost plus some.

[hognutz]

Originally Posted by Black5thgen

Although I no longer work in lean manufacturing I interned at Caterpillar and have a BS in Integrated Manufacturing. I know work in R&D for a bio-med custom molder. As far as I know it, the basis for lean manufacturing it to cut inventory and increase profit. Correct? Also if you can attract more customers by offering a superior product then you also drive up profit. The fact of the matter is that there is no "new" components, sub assemblies or operations that have to be used here. They already order the forged parts for the same size engine. I'm not saying to make an LS9 because obviously the cost benefit isn't there. The cost maybe 2-3K but there's a lot more R&D and labor that goes into that engine. For the LSA the R&D is almost done and the labor rate remains the same. At this point I would pay 2-3K more for forged internals and that would easily cover the cost plus some.

yes an no. it is complete culture shift from design to manufacturing, etc. Last place I worked we designed ELT's for aicraft. we were able to become way more profitable by designing thing to be more modular and more reuse. there is a side to it that is about the cost of runing different configurations down an assembly line. It costs more. if you can build 10,000 of product x as opposed to 5,000 or product y and 5000 of product z you are more profitable but you have to design product X to apeal to the people that would buy y and Z. All manufacturing orignates from a design which is driven by engineering so to speak.

Say a forged ZL1 was base of 58,995 how many sales would they lose? people are whining about 54,950. I am like you I would proabaly pay the 57 or 58k for a forged car though.

If you differ from the LS9 in any way it new bill of materials into MRP/ERP new drawings, new sub assemlies, etc. a detuned LS9 would be a moders dream though ha ha.

There could be a complete other reason though they don't forge the LSA. I mean I am working a place that operated helicopters righ now you don't spend money on material that will handle the load of the intended use.

I wish they would have just used the LS9 and built more of them. if they build 15k LS9's a year it would not be much more than an LSA.

[hognutz]

Originally Posted by Frankzl1

For my Mustangs friends, it sounds like is falling apart lol

what was the noise in the video. This video kind of confirmed my beliefe that the GT500 could be fast but it does not look composed or easy to drive at all. that looked pretty stetchy in a couple spots.

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by hognutz

It is complete culture shift from design to manufacturing, etc. ... There is a side to it that is about the cost of running different configurations down an assembly line. ... All manufacturing originates from a design which is driven by engineering so to speak.

Say a forged ZL1 was base of $58,995. How many sales would they lose? People are whining about $54,995.

If you differ from the LS9 in any way, it's a new bill of materials into MRP/ERP new drawings, new sub assemblies, etc.

There could be a completely different reason why they don't forge the LSA. ... You don't spend money on materials that are overkill for the load of the intended use.