Ken Thwaits' Z/28 vs. Modified 2016 SS

[JUSTIFIED]

First time I've seen a 6th gen SS compared to a 5th gen Z/28. Unless I missed it they never provided the best times for each, which was slightly irritating. Both have been modified, they didn't provide specs. If anybody knows the name of the shop that rebuilt Thwaits engine please post it here. They mentioned the name, but I couldn't hear it clearly..they're located in Texas.

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2016/06/...ionship-video/

[pimp2303]

He said Mast Motorsport built it

[Pushrod Pete]

Ken Thwaits' Z/28 is insane. It's up there as one of, if not the, most bad ass 5th gens on the planet. for that 6th gen SS to keep up with it is pretty stunning. I'd be curious to see exactly what JDP has done to that 6th gen.

results for that event can be found here

road course:
KT z28: 1:49.282
JDP 6G SS: 1:51.931

autocross:
KT z28: 0:47.497
JDP 6G SS:0:48.183

impressive to say the least.

you can learn more about ken thwaits' bad-ass 5th gen camaro here.

They'll be facing off again this weekend, so tune in to see how they fare against each other this time around. Shout out to Pete and the JP/Z. I'll be following the event.

[The_Raging_Bull]

Well its a great looking build, but....its a Z/28 in badge only.

It looks like the carbon fiber brakes were either replaced or modified, the DSVV shocks - gone replaced with coilovers...so much for F1 technology, the LS7 - gone...

I get the carbon fiber body panels all the way around to reduce weight-> thats cool. Maybe they should take an LS7, and do some major work to get ductile iron sleeves in it -> like ERL Performance could do with their superdeck. That would allow you to bore and stroke the car to 510 in3 and make major NA hp on the order or higher than they got; all while still having a honest to God numbers matching Z28 with the original LS7 block. Black dog Racing did an 810 hp NA L7 mod like that.

So I hate to be Johnny Raincloud here; but I don't get it it. Personally I'd liked to see someone take the original concept to the next level while doing things that don't replace parts of the car wholesale by just bolting in new stuff. Seems like what they did was race the new Gen 6 with their version of the Z; not a version that kept the flavor of the well thought out Chevy design. I seem to recall the unofficial time at the Ring was 7:25 (Al O said that number in an article), and that is Ferrari Enzo time on the ring. Can this car do that??

Chevy spent small fortune tuning the Z/28 on the track at the Nurburgring...I hate to see a car thats well designed by Chevy bastardized - even when it seems well done. I'm a purist..then again different folks for different folks,,,right??

[RyanR3KC]

Would love to see a stock for stock comparison between these 2 cars.

And their build lists

[brokencilence]

I know Ken and I know quite a bit about his cars so I will answer a few of these.

Originally Posted by JUSTIFIED

First time I've seen a 6th gen SS compared to a 5th gen Z/28. Unless I missed it they never provided the best times for each, which was slightly irritating. Both have been modified, they didn't provide specs. If anybody knows the name of the shop that rebuilt Thwaits engine please post it here. They mentioned the name, but I couldn't hear it clearly..they're located in Texas.

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2016/06/...ionship-video/

The engine is a 427 built by Mast motorsports and is pushing 749HP at the crank. The engine cost more than you can go buy a new Z28 for now and has a sequential gearbox behind it making lightning fast shifts.

Originally Posted by Pushrod Pete

Ken Thwaits' Z/28 is insane. It's up there as one of, if not the, most bad ass 5th gens on the planet. for that 6th gen SS to keep up with it is pretty stunning. I'd be curious to see exactly what JDP has done to that 6th gen.

results for that event can be found here

road course:
KT z28: 1:49.282
JDP 6G SS: 1:51.931

autocross:
KT z28: 0:47.497
JDP 6G SS:0:48.183

impressive to say the least.

you can learn more about ken thwaits' bad-ass 5th gen camaro here.

They'll be facing off again this weekend, so tune in to see how they fare against each other this time around. Shout out to Pete and the JP/Z. I'll be following the event.

At the time of this event Jordan's Camaro had engine tuning and a wheel/tire package. I don't recall if sway bars were changed or not.

Originally Posted by The_Raging_Bull

Well its a great looking build, but....its a Z/28 in badge only.

It looks like the carbon fiber brakes were either replaced or modified, the DSVV shocks - gone replaced with coilovers...so much for F1 technology, the LS7 - gone...

I get the carbon fiber body panels all the way around to reduce weight-> thats cool. Maybe they should take an LS7, and do some major work to get ductile iron sleeves in it -> like ERL Performance could do with their superdeck. That would allow you to bore and stroke the car to 510 in3 and make major NA hp on the order or higher than they got; all while still having a honest to God numbers matching Z28 with the original LS7 block. Black dog Racing did an 810 hp NA L7 mod like that.

So I hate to be Johnny Raincloud here; but I don't get it it. Personally I'd liked to see someone take the original concept to the next level while doing things that don't replace parts of the car wholesale by just bolting in new stuff. Seems like what they did was race the new Gen 6 with their version of the Z; not a version that kept the flavor of the well thought out Chevy design. I seem to recall the unofficial time at the Ring was 7:25 (Al O said that number in an article), and that is Ferrari Enzo time on the ring. Can this car do that??

Chevy spent small fortune tuning the Z/28 on the track at the Nurburgring...I hate to see a car thats well designed by Chevy bastardized - even when it seems well done. I'm a purist..then again different folks for different folks,,,right??

This is the point of modding cars, no? If you track a car much you know you want adjustability in your suspension which the DSSV dampners have none. We are talking about the Optima USCA series here... If you want to do well you aren't going to show up stock... As to the engine matching numbers, the original numbers matching engine is lubed and sealed up in a crate waiting to go back in the car some day, if you are a purist i don't think you would want to extremely mod the numbers matching engine and risk blowing it up at the track as then you would no longer have a numbers matching block The black dog engine is a while different animail and I don't even feel like getting into the details of that one.

As for the ring time, Kens Z28 with a driver that knows the ring would Destroy a 7:25, I'm certain of that.

Chevy spent a small fortune making a car that was track worthy but would pass all safety and government standards to be on the street. Everything can be done better.

Just my thoughts on this I'm sure everyone has their own. Kens z/28 is in my opinion the baddest Z28 there is that is still a true street car.

[Nick S]

Originally Posted by The_Raging_Bull

Well its a great looking build, but....its a Z/28 in badge only.

It looks like the carbon fiber brakes were either replaced or modified, the DSVV shocks - gone replaced with coilovers...so much for F1 technology, the LS7 - gone...

I get the carbon fiber body panels all the way around to reduce weight-> thats cool. Maybe they should take an LS7, and do some major work to get ductile iron sleeves in it -> like ERL Performance could do with their superdeck. That would allow you to bore and stroke the car to 510 in3 and make major NA hp on the order or higher than they got; all while still having a honest to God numbers matching Z28 with the original LS7 block. Black dog Racing did an 810 hp NA L7 mod like that.

So I hate to be Johnny Raincloud here; but I don't get it it. Personally I'd liked to see someone take the original concept to the next level while doing things that don't replace parts of the car wholesale by just bolting in new stuff. Seems like what they did was race the new Gen 6 with their version of the Z; not a version that kept the flavor of the well thought out Chevy design. I seem to recall the unofficial time at the Ring was 7:25 (Al O said that number in an article), and that is Ferrari Enzo time on the ring. Can this car do that??

Chevy spent small fortune tuning the Z/28 on the track at the Nurburgring...I hate to see a car thats well designed by Chevy bastardized - even when it seems well done. I'm a purist..then again different folks for different folks,,,right??

I would have to agree with your statements. Ken Thwaits really doesn't have a Z/28 anymore. It's really just more of a body in white with a bunch of race parts assembled into it. As he states in the video he doesn't even have the Z/28 manual trans in t anymore. They put a sequential manual gearbox in it. So:
1. No LS7
2. No DSSV Damper set up and I'm sure the sway bars and such have also been replaced.
3. No Z/28 Transmission

There really isn't anything much left that makes it a Z/28. It's just a 5th Camaro body with all race parts installed.

I always feel the same way when there is a video talking about a 1LE vs ??? And then you find out that they replaced the entire 1LE suspension with an aftermarket coil over set up modded the engine a bunch. It's really not a 1LE at that point. It's a modded Camaro.

Not to take anything away from Ken's build because it is pretty Bad A$$ but to call it a Z/28 anymore is kind of misleading. It started as a Z/28 but it's no longer anything like a Z/28.

[Nick S]

Originally Posted by brokencilence

I know Ken and I know quite a bit about his cars so I will answer a few of these.



The engine is a 427 built by Mast motorsports and is pushing 749HP at the crank. The engine cost more than you can go buy a new Z28 for now and has a sequential gearbox behind it making lightning fast shifts.



At the time of this event Jordan's Camaro had engine tuning and a wheel/tire package. I don't recall if sway bars were changed or not.



This is the point of modding cars, no? If you track a car much you know you want adjustability in your suspension which the DSSV dampners have none. We are talking about the Optima USCA series here... If you want to do well you aren't going to show up stock... As to the engine matching numbers, the original numbers matching engine is lubed and sealed up in a crate waiting to go back in the car some day, if you are a purist i don't think you would want to extremely mod the numbers matching engine and risk blowing it up at the track as then you would no longer have a numbers matching block The black dog engine is a while different animail and I don't even feel like getting into the details of that one.

As for the ring time, Kens Z28 with a driver that knows the ring would Destroy a 7:25, I'm certain of that.

Chevy spent a small fortune making a car that was track worthy but would pass all safety and government standards to be on the street. Everything can be done better.

Just my thoughts on this I'm sure everyone has their own. Kens z/28 is in my opinion the baddest Z28 there is that is still a true street car.

Kind of seems like Jordan showed up in a car that's about as stock as you can get and did pretty well. Especially if such a heavily modified "Z/28" was feeling the pressure to keep pushing just to stay less than a second ahead on such a big, long autocross.

I don't think people saying that Ken doesn't have a Z/28 anymore are necessarily purists. I look at it as he replaced pretty much everything on his Z/28 that made it a Z/28 to start with. So if it no longer has most of the unique "Z/28" parts on it then it's really not a Z/28 anymore. Someone with a regular Camaro SS could have put all of those same parts into their car and made it virtually identical for the same amount of money...except that Ken spent more on the initial car since he paid for the Z/28 as a starting point.

I guess I see it like someone claiming they have a Red Camaro only they painted it black now. It's no longer a "Red" Camaro because the paint color red is what made it a Red Camaro. It's now a Black Camaro because that's the color it's painted. Ken's Z/28 was a Z/28 but it's now just a 5th gen Camaro bodied race car because that's what he's made it into (which is an awesome race car BTW). It no longer fits any of the OEM models/packages.

[DrkPhx]

It's splitting hairs, but technically it's still a real Z/28 because of the VIN regardless of the part content. Kind of like Dave Larson's ZL1 which is a pure drag car (bad to the bone) at this point, but it's still a real ZL1 that's highly modified.

[RyanR3KC]

Originally Posted by brokencilence

I know Ken and I know quite a bit about his cars so I will answer a few of these.



The engine is a 427 built by Mast motorsports and is pushing 749HP at the crank. The engine cost more than you can go buy a new Z28 for now and has a sequential gearbox behind it making lightning fast shifts.



At the time of this event Jordan's Camaro had engine tuning and a wheel/tire package. I don't recall if sway bars were changed or not.



This is the point of modding cars, no? If you track a car much you know you want adjustability in your suspension which the DSSV dampners have none. We are talking about the Optima USCA series here... If you want to do well you aren't going to show up stock... As to the engine matching numbers, the original numbers matching engine is lubed and sealed up in a crate waiting to go back in the car some day, if you are a purist i don't think you would want to extremely mod the numbers matching engine and risk blowing it up at the track as then you would no longer have a numbers matching block The black dog engine is a while different animail and I don't even feel like getting into the details of that one.

As for the ring time, Kens Z28 with a driver that knows the ring would Destroy a 7:25, I'm certain of that.

Chevy spent a small fortune making a car that was track worthy but would pass all safety and government standards to be on the street. Everything can be done better.

Just my thoughts on this I'm sure everyone has their own. Kens z/28 is in my opinion the baddest Z28 there is that is still a true street car.

Everyone in this thread has a logical point. Ken's car is set up for Optima. If you're just regular Joe at the road course like me I'd like to see the build lists for each car. Currently my next car choice is either a 2017 1LE or a 5th Gen Z/28. Would love to see what they did to 6th Gen to wring out that type of performance.

Once again if you're "Regular Joe at the Track" like me, if you pick up a 2017 1LE and do some bolt on work then shit, you're done with your car because that's going to be one hell of a course beater.

[Pat evil black Z/28]

Lot of money spent to be second faster than pretty much stock SS.i bet ken could went faster with stock z/28 and not over power track with 749 hp motor.

[JusticePete]

Ken is a very good driver. The traack and course will favor different vehicles. A track with longer straights would benefit Ken. A track that is tighter with shorter straights the 6th Gen. Hard to take advantage of power with no room for power.

That said, allow me top introduce you to Darren Reed's JP/Z. Loaded with fuel and the five gallon dry sump tank filled, it weighs less than a C7 Z06 Carbon. My shop is in Martinsville, VA. Darren lives in California. That makes testing and track time tough to come by. Our first outing was at NJMP OPTIMA. It was the first time Darren could drive the car at speed. He finished 3rd in GT on the road course, 2/10ths out of second to last year's winner on his home track and 4/10ths behind Ken. We made no adjustments to setup, letting Darren get used to the car. Personally, I think if there was one more session...

FYI -- Raymond's Performance built the car. Bruce Raymond is a great guy, runs and awesome shop and is a dear friend. Next time you see Bruce, tell him your heard I taught him everything he knows ;-)


We are still sorting out the data stream, camera location, etc...

[JusticePete]

We'll be leaving the shop later today to head down to Charlotte for the OPTIMA / USCA event at Z-Maxx and the Speedway.

Ounces make pounds and one wiper saves a couple of pounds. As we work late hours we draw our inspiration form a number of sources.

The MavTV crew will be on hand.from 5pm to 7pm on Friday, July 29th along with 15 OPTIMA custom builds.

Advance Auto Parts,
264 Concord Pkwy S
Concord, NC

A full sweep one wiper system removed more than a few ounces from this build.