2011 Camaro. Grinds when shifting from 1st to 2nd under hard acceleration - Page 7 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

ponbigi · 01-20-2011, 06:11 PM

part numbers as follow:

89058762 FORK (04303-CK)
89058794 RING SET (04416-CK)
92149634 Gear, 2nd (04395-C)
89058803 SLEEVE (04384-CK)
88862475 OIL (08800-BOPCK)

I have to get with the mechanic on this to see what's really going on. I am concerned i will be in the same spot soon after the repair.

ponbigi · 01-20-2011, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by denster

I have an idea.... Since a lot of us are facing a similiar problem with GM telling us they never heard of this problem, and also when we take it to the dealer, they say they never heard of this problem.
How about we start posting the Contact Name and Contact information for the dealer and the service manager of the dealerships that have found AND DONE SOMETHING about this problem. then we can give it to our dealers when they get all stupid and say they have no idea what to do about this.

Pattie Vantine Service Advisor #7194*W*
Chapman Chevrolet
480-838-1234
Tempe, AZ

sixty9fordkiller · 01-21-2011, 01:33 AM

man, it sucks to have that problem. Ive grinded shifting into second gear twice but that was because i didnt time it right when releasing the clutch pedal. 2 times ive grinded second and i drive my car hard and no problems ever. I change the brake/clutch fluid with every oil change and changed the gear oil on the tranny at 10k. no problems here. i can shift fast and hard. All i have to worry about it the rear end trying to run circles around my front end when i shift

Ill tell you this much, changing the tranny oil made it shift much, much smoother than stock.

Russell James · 01-21-2011, 08:49 AM

The only bulletin I know of just lists a whole bunch of things they claim are either normal or blame on driver error.

If something is mucked up, their just going to replace parts with the same fragile synchros and blocking rings it came with. Tremec and GM need to get their shit together on these shifting problems that have been going on for years.

Tremec updated the guts of the TR6060 with larger gears to account for todays higher hp engines. While leaving the case exactly the same size, leave room only for mini sized synchros. Quite the half ass'd update. Next time, hopefully with a different trans supplier, the internals need to be designed and spec'd for the load, then design the trans case to meet the needs of those internals. Not the other way around. A case designed over a decade ago just doesn't fit the bill today. But I'm sure they saved some nice coin not redesigned a new case.

mad@gm · 01-26-2011, 04:10 PM

M/T - Operating Characteristics INFORMATION
Bulletin No.: 03-07-29-004F
Date: July 29, 2009
Subject: Manual Transmission Operating Characteristics
Models:
2010 and Prior Passenger Cars and Light Duty Trucks (Including Saturn)
2009 and Prior Chevrolet and GMC Medium Duty Trucks
2006-2010 HUMMER H3
with Manual Transmission Supercede:
This bulletin is being revised to add the 2010 model year and remove Isuzu from the models. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 03-07-29-004E (Section 07 - Transmission/Transaxle). Important
Even though this bulletin attempts to cover operating characteristics of manual transmissions, it cannot be all inclusive. Be sure to compare any questionable concerns to a similar vehicle and if possible, with similar mileage. Even though many of the conditions are described as characteristics and may not be durability issues, GM may attempt to improve specific issues for customer satisfaction. The purpose of this bulletin is to assist in identifying characteristics of manual transmissions that repair attempts will not change. The following are explanations and examples of conditions that will generally occur in all manual transmissions. All noises will vary between transmissions due to build variation, type of transmission (usually the more heavy duty, the more noise), type of flywheel and clutch, level of insulation, etc.
Basic Information
Many transmission noises are created by the firing pulses of the engine. Each firing pulse creates a sudden change in angular acceleration at the crankshaft. These changes in speed can be reduced with clutch damper springs and dual mass flywheels. However, some speed variation will make it through to the transmission. This can create noise as the various gears will accel and decel against each other because of required clearances.
Gear Rattle
Rattling or grinding (not to be confused with a missed shift type of grinding, also described as a combustion knock type of noise) type noises usually occur while operating the engine at low RPMs (lugging the engine). This can occur while accelerating from a stop (for example, a Corvette) or while operating at low RPMs while under a load (for example, Kodiak in a lower gear and at low engine speed). Vehicles equipped with a dual-mass flywheel (for example, a 3500 HD Sierra with the 6-speed manual and Duramax(R)) will have reduced noise levels as compared to vehicles without (for example, a 4500 Kodiak with the 6-speed manual and Duramax(R)). However, dual-mass flywheels do not eliminate all noise.
Neutral Rattle
There are often concerns of rattle while idling in neutral with the clutch engaged. This is related to the changes in angular acceleration described earlier. This is a light rattle, and once again, vehicles with dual mass flywheels will have reduced noise. If the engine is shut off while idling in neutral with the clutch engaged, the sudden stop of the engine will create a rapid change in angular acceleration that even dual mass flywheels cannot compensate. Because of the mass of all the components, this will create a noise. This type of noise should not be heard if the clutch is released (pedal pushed to the floor).
Backlash
Backlash noise is created when changing engine or driveline loading. This can occur when accelerating from a stop, coming to a stop, or applying and releasing the throttle (loading and unloading the driveline). This will vary based on vehicle type, build variations, driver input, vehicle loading, etc. and is created from the necessary clearance between all of the mating gears in the transmission, axle(s) and transfer case (if equipped).
Shift Effort
Shift effort will vary among different style transmissions and synchronizer designs. Usually the more heavy duty the transmission, the higher the shift effort because of the increased mass of the components. Shift effort can also be higher in cold weather because the fluid will be thicker. Medium duty transmissions will not shift as quickly as a Corvette transmission. To reduce shift effort, do not attempt to rush the shift - allow the synchronizers to work as designed. Shifting harder will only increase the chance of rushing past the synchronizer leading to grinding while shifting.
Non-Synchronized Gears
Some light duty truck transmissions in 1st gear (creeper-gear) and reverse gears in various transmissions, along with all gears in some medium duty transmissions, may be non-synchronized. This means there is not a mechanism to match input and output shaft speeds to allow for a smooth shift. This function is left up to the driver. This can be noticed if a shift into 1st or reverse is attempted while the vehicle is rolling or before the input shaft stops rotating leading to a gear grind. The grinding can be reduced by coming to a complete stop and pausing for a moment before shifting into the 1st or reverse gear. Some slight grinding can be expected. In medium duty non-synchronized transmissions, the driver must match input shaft (engine) speed to output shaft (driveshaft) speed with every shift. This can be accomplished by double clutching, or by using other methods. If the driver is not able to perform this function properly, there will be gear grinding with each improperly completed shift. Driver training may be required to correct this condition. Clutch brakes are used in medium duty non-synchronized transmissions to allow a shift into gear at a stop. The clutch brake is used to stop the input shaft from spinning, allowing a shift into gear at a stop without grinding. The clutch brake is activated by pressing the clutch pedal all the way to the floor. When the clutch brake is used, it is possible to have a blocked shift with the vehicle stationary. If this occurs, engage the clutch slightly to rotate the input gear to allow the shift. The clutch brake is intended to only be used while at a stop. Care must be taken to not activate the clutch brake while shifting between gears. This could lead to excessive grinding or a blocked or missed shift.
Skip Shift
Currently, the Cadillac CTS-V, Pontiac GTO, Chevrolet Corvette and Camaro SS (other models may follow) equipped with the 6-speed manual transmission have a feature referred to as a "skip-shift". This feature only allows a shift from 1st to 4th gear when the indicator lamp is illuminated on the dash. Dealers cannot disable this feature as it was established to help meet fuel economy standards. The conditions for this feature are: engine coolant at normal operating temperature, vehicle speed of 24-31 km/h (15-19 mph), 21% or less throttle being used (refer to Service Information or the Owner Manual for more details.)

mad@gm · 01-26-2011, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcoates

I sure would like to see what is in that TSB for the shift problem!

As seen in the tsb, the problem is the "driver" not the product, don't forget that its operating as designed!

dcoates · 02-04-2011, 09:49 AM

Got my car back last week, replaced transmission for the 2nd-gear grind thing, better than ever with the shifting.
still notchy, but we live with that don't we?!

eckerj · 02-04-2011, 11:18 AM

Does the "Non-Synchronized Gears" section apply to V6 Manuals? Lately, when I've
been at a stoplight (i.e. car not moving at all), with the clutch fully pressed, I'll try
shifting from 1st to 2nd. The transmission won't let me get fully into 2nd, unless I let
the clutch out slightly.

I've always found my car to be difficult to shift, and have "ground" shifts into 2nd and
occasionally 3rd, thinking it was just my inexperience.

Beginning to sound like I need to bring it in to the dealership.

Rick@RKT56 · 02-05-2011, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eckerj

Does the "Non-Synchronized Gears" section apply to V6 Manuals? Lately, when I've
been at a stoplight (i.e. car not moving at all), with the clutch fully pressed, I'll try
shifting from 1st to 2nd. The transmission won't let me get fully into 2nd, unless I let
the clutch out slightly.

I've always found my car to be difficult to shift, and have "ground" shifts into 2nd and
occasionally 3rd, thinking it was just my inexperience.

Beginning to sound like I need to bring it in to the dealership.

The V6 and V8 transmissions are fully synchronized.

ckaram · 02-05-2011, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eckerj

Does the "Non-Synchronized Gears" section apply to V6 Manuals? Lately, when I've
been at a stoplight (i.e. car not moving at all), with the clutch fully pressed, I'll try
shifting from 1st to 2nd. The transmission won't let me get fully into 2nd, unless I let
the clutch out slightly.

I've always found my car to be difficult to shift, and have "ground" shifts into 2nd and
occasionally 3rd, thinking it was just my inexperience.

Beginning to sound like I need to bring it in to the dealership.

These transmissions will be stubborn like this especially when they're cold. Make note of the trans temp if you have the gauge pack. After 20 minutes of driving or so I don't have the issue.

eckerj · 02-05-2011, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ckaram

These transmissions will be stubborn like this especially when they're cold. Make note of the trans temp if you have the gauge pack. After 20 minutes of driving or so I don't have the issue.

This happens at all times for me even after coming home from a long
commute...

ckaram · 02-05-2011, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eckerj

This happens at all times for me even after coming home from a long
commute...

Dealer then.

MillerTime · 02-09-2011, 01:54 PM

Any updates on that bulletin? My car is in for this and I'm getting the bs that everyone else has gotten....

lakersftbl69 · 02-09-2011, 02:06 PM

[QUOTE=cab2g;2557529]It seems to be much worse for me when the car is cold. I notice it mostly on 2nd to 3rd. Dealer said the transmission was working as designed and that it would grind more and be harder to shift when the transmission was cold.[/QUOTE

I also had the same problem going from 2nd-3rd. I ended up just changing the trani fluid from what ever the stock was to mobile 1 ATF and I haven't had any problems since

01-21-2011, 01:33 AM	#87
sixty9fordkiller Donkey Dick Cam Camaro Drives: 2010 2SS/RS LS3 M6 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 1,998	man, it sucks to have that problem. Ive grinded shifting into second gear twice but that was because i didnt time it right when releasing the clutch pedal. 2 times ive grinded second and i drive my car hard and no problems ever. I change the brake/clutch fluid with every oil change and changed the gear oil on the tranny at 10k. no problems here. i can shift fast and hard. All i have to worry about it the rear end trying to run circles around my front end when i shift Ill tell you this much, changing the tranny oil made it shift much, much smoother than stock. __________________ Bone Stock

01-26-2011, 04:10 PM	#89
mad@gm Drives: was a 2010 2SS/RS Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: north carolina Posts: 169	M/T - Operating Characteristics INFORMATION Bulletin No.: 03-07-29-004F Date: July 29, 2009 Subject: Manual Transmission Operating Characteristics Models: 2010 and Prior Passenger Cars and Light Duty Trucks (Including Saturn) 2009 and Prior Chevrolet and GMC Medium Duty Trucks 2006-2010 HUMMER H3 with Manual Transmission Supercede: This bulletin is being revised to add the 2010 model year and remove Isuzu from the models. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 03-07-29-004E (Section 07 - Transmission/Transaxle). Important Even though this bulletin attempts to cover operating characteristics of manual transmissions, it cannot be all inclusive. Be sure to compare any questionable concerns to a similar vehicle and if possible, with similar mileage. Even though many of the conditions are described as characteristics and may not be durability issues, GM may attempt to improve specific issues for customer satisfaction. The purpose of this bulletin is to assist in identifying characteristics of manual transmissions that repair attempts will not change. The following are explanations and examples of conditions that will generally occur in all manual transmissions. All noises will vary between transmissions due to build variation, type of transmission (usually the more heavy duty, the more noise), type of flywheel and clutch, level of insulation, etc. Basic Information Many transmission noises are created by the firing pulses of the engine. Each firing pulse creates a sudden change in angular acceleration at the crankshaft. These changes in speed can be reduced with clutch damper springs and dual mass flywheels. However, some speed variation will make it through to the transmission. This can create noise as the various gears will accel and decel against each other because of required clearances. Gear Rattle Rattling or grinding (not to be confused with a missed shift type of grinding, also described as a combustion knock type of noise) type noises usually occur while operating the engine at low RPMs (lugging the engine). This can occur while accelerating from a stop (for example, a Corvette) or while operating at low RPMs while under a load (for example, Kodiak in a lower gear and at low engine speed). Vehicles equipped with a dual-mass flywheel (for example, a 3500 HD Sierra with the 6-speed manual and Duramax(R)) will have reduced noise levels as compared to vehicles without (for example, a 4500 Kodiak with the 6-speed manual and Duramax(R)). However, dual-mass flywheels do not eliminate all noise. Neutral Rattle There are often concerns of rattle while idling in neutral with the clutch engaged. This is related to the changes in angular acceleration described earlier. This is a light rattle, and once again, vehicles with dual mass flywheels will have reduced noise. If the engine is shut off while idling in neutral with the clutch engaged, the sudden stop of the engine will create a rapid change in angular acceleration that even dual mass flywheels cannot compensate. Because of the mass of all the components, this will create a noise. This type of noise should not be heard if the clutch is released (pedal pushed to the floor). Backlash Backlash noise is created when changing engine or driveline loading. This can occur when accelerating from a stop, coming to a stop, or applying and releasing the throttle (loading and unloading the driveline). This will vary based on vehicle type, build variations, driver input, vehicle loading, etc. and is created from the necessary clearance between all of the mating gears in the transmission, axle(s) and transfer case (if equipped). Shift Effort Shift effort will vary among different style transmissions and synchronizer designs. Usually the more heavy duty the transmission, the higher the shift effort because of the increased mass of the components. Shift effort can also be higher in cold weather because the fluid will be thicker. Medium duty transmissions will not shift as quickly as a Corvette transmission. To reduce shift effort, do not attempt to rush the shift - allow the synchronizers to work as designed. Shifting harder will only increase the chance of rushing past the synchronizer leading to grinding while shifting. Non-Synchronized Gears Some light duty truck transmissions in 1st gear (creeper-gear) and reverse gears in various transmissions, along with all gears in some medium duty transmissions, may be non-synchronized. This means there is not a mechanism to match input and output shaft speeds to allow for a smooth shift. This function is left up to the driver. This can be noticed if a shift into 1st or reverse is attempted while the vehicle is rolling or before the input shaft stops rotating leading to a gear grind. The grinding can be reduced by coming to a complete stop and pausing for a moment before shifting into the 1st or reverse gear. Some slight grinding can be expected. In medium duty non-synchronized transmissions, the driver must match input shaft (engine) speed to output shaft (driveshaft) speed with every shift. This can be accomplished by double clutching, or by using other methods. If the driver is not able to perform this function properly, there will be gear grinding with each improperly completed shift. Driver training may be required to correct this condition. Clutch brakes are used in medium duty non-synchronized transmissions to allow a shift into gear at a stop. The clutch brake is used to stop the input shaft from spinning, allowing a shift into gear at a stop without grinding. The clutch brake is activated by pressing the clutch pedal all the way to the floor. When the clutch brake is used, it is possible to have a blocked shift with the vehicle stationary. If this occurs, engage the clutch slightly to rotate the input gear to allow the shift. The clutch brake is intended to only be used while at a stop. Care must be taken to not activate the clutch brake while shifting between gears. This could lead to excessive grinding or a blocked or missed shift. Skip Shift Currently, the Cadillac CTS-V, Pontiac GTO, Chevrolet Corvette and Camaro SS (other models may follow) equipped with the 6-speed manual transmission have a feature referred to as a "skip-shift". This feature only allows a shift from 1st to 4th gear when the indicator lamp is illuminated on the dash. Dealers cannot disable this feature as it was established to help meet fuel economy standards. The conditions for this feature are: engine coolant at normal operating temperature, vehicle speed of 24-31 km/h (15-19 mph), 21% or less throttle being used (refer to Service Information or the Owner Manual for more details.) Last edited by mad@gm; 01-27-2011 at 08:22 AM.

02-04-2011, 09:49 AM	#91
dcoates Drives: 2010 CAMARO 2SS/RS Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: ARANSAS PASS TEXAS Posts: 135	Got my car back last week, replaced transmission for the 2nd-gear grind thing, better than ever with the shifting. still notchy, but we live with that don't we?! __________________ 2010 CAMARO 2SS/RS, M6, Yellow with Rally stripes, Borla factory exhaust....426HP YEE HAAHH...

02-09-2011, 01:54 PM	#97
MillerTime Blowin the doors off! Drives: A 2013 SS RS 6M SR Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 2,390	Any updates on that bulletin? My car is in for this and I'm getting the bs that everyone else has gotten.... __________________ 2G1FS1EWXD9163847

02-09-2011, 02:06 PM	#98
lakersftbl69 Drives: 2010 camaro ss Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: conway sc. Posts: 1,453 View My Garage	[QUOTE=cab2g;2557529]It seems to be much worse for me when the car is cold. I notice it mostly on 2nd to 3rd. Dealer said the transmission was working as designed and that it would grind more and be harder to shift when the transmission was cold.[/QUOTE I also had the same problem going from 2nd-3rd. I ended up just changing the trani fluid from what ever the stock was to mobile 1 ATF and I haven't had any problems since __________________ ordered dec 15 2008 picked up on june 8 2009. upgrades kooks 1 7/8" LTH w/ deleted cats, corsa exhaust, hurst short throw shifter stage 3 comp cam, 3.91 gears ecs kit blower, meth injection, upgraded axles, drive shaft, McLeod rxt clutch, fully forged 416ci stroker all installed and dyno tuned by slowhawk performance in bridgewater ma.

01-20-2011, 06:11 PM	#85
ponbigi Drives: 2011 CAMARO LS Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Chandler, AZ Posts: 326	part numbers as follow: 89058762 FORK (04303-CK) 89058794 RING SET (04416-CK) 92149634 Gear, 2nd (04395-C) 89058803 SLEEVE (04384-CK) 88862475 OIL (08800-BOPCK) I have to get with the mechanic on this to see what's really going on. I am concerned i will be in the same spot soon after the repair.

01-21-2011, 08:49 AM	#88
Russell James Drives: '15 SS 1LE, '69 Z28 drag car Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Mich Posts: 4,482	The only bulletin I know of just lists a whole bunch of things they claim are either normal or blame on driver error. If something is mucked up, their just going to replace parts with the same fragile synchros and blocking rings it came with. Tremec and GM need to get their shit together on these shifting problems that have been going on for years. Tremec updated the guts of the TR6060 with larger gears to account for todays higher hp engines. While leaving the case exactly the same size, leave room only for mini sized synchros. Quite the half ass'd update. Next time, hopefully with a different trans supplier, the internals need to be designed and spec'd for the load, then design the trans case to meet the needs of those internals. Not the other way around. A case designed over a decade ago just doesn't fit the bill today. But I'm sure they saved some nice coin not redesigned a new case.

02-04-2011, 11:18 AM	#92
eckerj Drives: 2010 Camaro 2LT Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 33	Does the "Non-Synchronized Gears" section apply to V6 Manuals? Lately, when I've been at a stoplight (i.e. car not moving at all), with the clutch fully pressed, I'll try shifting from 1st to 2nd. The transmission won't let me get fully into 2nd, unless I let the clutch out slightly. I've always found my car to be difficult to shift, and have "ground" shifts into 2nd and occasionally 3rd, thinking it was just my inexperience. Beginning to sound like I need to bring it in to the dealership.

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