Anybody Regret Modding?

[MontanaFlyFisher]

Bought mine a few months ago with intention of keeping it stock. I’ve always highly modified my vehicles, but wasn’t thinking I would with this one. That said, I’m looking at just doing some basic ones like a 2.4 upper, injectors, & upgraded HX. I only have access to 91 octane here, so I’d have to go the Torco route each tank. I already have more power than I can ever use on the street, but it is so easy to get more power with these platforms. My question is, has anybody regretted modding their ZL1? Has it taken away from the fun you can “safely” have on the street? Light mods creating drivability/reliability issues? You know the saying, it is more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow. TIA.

[Bigtime53]

My first ZL1 I bought was in 2013. I ordered the car and when it got here I drove it about 1500-1600 miles then took it to Andy who has built a bunch of these cars in texas. When it left his shop it had 756hp to the tires. I found out quick you cannot run the regular tires that come on these cars unless like you say drive it slower. They will darn sure get away from you on the street and then it requires your full attention! I had to run the car on torco all the time and I ordered it in 5 gal cans and that turned into a pain in the ass. I will never do that again as I like you can only get 91 octane here. The car I have now has only got a roto fab cold air filter and for me that is all it is going to get. Besides I am to damn old to handle a car with much more hp than what the ZL1 has already. So to answer the question I personally will not modify mine because someday I will sell it and I believe more buyers would be interested in a stock one over a modified one.

[MontanaFlyFisher]

Appreciate the input BigTime. I'm kind of feeling the same way, maybe I'll do some suspension stuff as the wheel hop sucks even with the factory tires, ruins a lot of the fun.

[Limelight]

I have had my 2013 for 3 years now and at first was going to keep it stock. This year however I ended up getting LT headers with high flow cats, a Rotofab, catch can and tune. So glad I did - the long tubes are intoxicating. Didn’t need it to be faster for the street but the sound was so worth it. Not crazy loud with stock NPP but just a great roar at WOT. I plan on keeping it for my lifetime and passing it down to my kids so resale wasn’t an issue for me. I also kept all my original parts.

[MontanaFlyFisher]

Originally Posted by Limelight

I have had my 2013 for 3 years now and at first was going to keep it stock. This year however I ended up getting LT headers with high flow cats, a Rotofab, catch can and tune. So glad I did - the long tubes are intoxicating. Didn’t need it to be faster for the street but the sound was so worth it. Not crazy loud with stock NPP but just a great roar at WOT. I plan on keeping it for my lifetime and passing it down to my kids so resale wasn’t an issue for me. I also kept all my original parts.

Appreciate the input. I’ve debated headers, but don’t think I want the extra decibels unless it is the supercharger. What brand headers? What gains did you see from those & the tune?

[Limelight]

Originally Posted by MontanaFlyFisher

Appreciate the input. I’ve debated headers, but don’t think I want the extra decibels unless it is the supercharger. What brand headers? What gains did you see from those & the tune?

I went with Stainless Power 1 7/8” primaries, 3” collectors with high flow cats. Dyno printout showed 531 RWHP and 510 RWTQ.

Funny you mention supercharger sound. You will hear less supercharger whine with long tube headers lol.

[Robmnrd]

Do you have access to E85 near you?

If so, my personal opinion (and you know what they say about those..) is that for a car that you want to be able to safely drive for a long, long time in modded form E85 should be one of the very first and only power-adding mods you do.

I've done a lot of research on doing 'lightly modded' builds for these cars because I want/need reliability. I nearly DD mine, drive it across the country multiple times per year, etc., etc. so I can't mod the thing to 750+whp and deal with the issues that begin to arise sporadically and regularly at those levels.

In my opinion the absolute best (not necessarily cheapest) "formula" for a lightly modded ride that will be darn near as reliable as stock is:

CAI (A 'normal' size one - not a big gulp or whatever - is plenty for power levels below ~700whp)
LTs with high-flow cats (or catless if you can get away with it and enjoy the sound)
**Mufflers of your choice** (asterisks because the stock NPP is a great muffler with an amazing sound with LTs in front of them)
DSX E85 kit
- flex sensor
- auxiliary pump (I don't trust BAPs long-term. They honestly just seem like a band-aid to me and I would not trust it driving my car 7000+ miles per year every year)
- ID1050s
Auxiliary Fuel Filter (E85 is not friendly to the stock in-pump filter. If you want reliability and E85 it's a good insurance policy)
2.55 pulley with solid isolator (I know the appeal is just throwing a super small pulley on because it is easy and gives you a lot of boost, but even with an upgraded heat exchanger the heat issue is real and difficult to deal with in our cars due to the $#!^ intercooler brick. Jannetty typically doesn't even recommend doing an upgraded HX because the Brick is the true issue for our cars.)
Reinforced Brick (Won't help flow but it'll stop it from collapsing which is a problem even at stock boost levels over time.)
Catch Can
A Good Tune (Stressing that reliability is your #1 concern. Purposefully leave HP and RPM on the table. Tune it so safely that the time when the Gas Station puts 87 in their 91 tank and the E85 pump is broken so you end up unknowingly putting 87 in, it still runs..albeit like it's real unhappy. Find a tuner that will not just throw it on a dyno but will also drive it and do real-world driving tuning. A good tune is an investment in terms of reliability.)

It's a lot of items (including a handful that many people opt not to do because they don't want to pay for them and are apparently in a position to not worry about the reliability concerns) for not a massive amount of HP. If you look at the power-adding items, you're "only" making like 540-560 at the wheels (depending on transmission, dyno type, etc.) on 91 and "only" 590-630 at the wheels (depending on transmission, dyno type, etc.) on full E85.

It's an over-built combo on purpose. Many other people would say "Wow now you're ready to throw on a lower pulley and swap cams and make real power!!!1111oneoneone" but if reliability is an actual concern for you, then your reply to that would be "No thanks, I'm ready to drive like this every single day for years to come without worrying about...anything, really."

One of the big questions I am sure I will be asked is "why no HX?" I slightly addressed it already - because of how the Brick is so restrictive, there are very few real-world scenarios where an increase in size of HX will be of real benefit. Especially because our cooling package is setup 'old school' style where it is all sandwiched together at the front. Increasing the size of the HX will just make the rest of the cooling package less effective - a 'rob Peter to pay Paul' sort of situation that simply won't benefit you that much. If the majority of the fun you're gonna have with the car is on the street (30-110 on an onramp and then just cruising at highway speed, or medium-throttle play in some twisties where you aren't even able to really safely give it the beans like you could on a closed track) I would say forego the HX. I am in agreement with Jannetty on this one, and I know many people will come in here and argue tooth-and-nail about it. Just my opinion. Additionally though, the 2.55 pulley is relatively unaggressive and this combo is going to bleed some boost (LTs without a more purposeful boost-oriented cam) and benefits from the inherent cooling properties of running E85.

Another question I will likely be asked is "Are the catch can and aux fuel filter really necessary?" My response would be "If you care about longevity and reliability, think of them as insurance policies. You basically just throw them on and forget about them...other than the obvious parts where you need to empty the can and whatnot" lol.

Reliability is not just about never needing to address big issues - it's about never needing to worry about addressing big issues. It's why we all do great basic maintenance on these cars. It's why we check fluid levels in between routine maintenance intervals even though there's no leaks or signs of burning fluids. It's why we constantly listen for new/different noises to pop up. It's not because we are worried at every moment - it's because we want to ensure we prevent the 'big failures' from happening. Stop/catch them before they happen. It gives peace of mind.

[Limelight]

Great info here ^^. I also had my brick reinforced and went with a solid Eaton isolator. Definitely a good insurance policy to have…

[MontanaFlyFisher]

Originally Posted by Robmnrd

Do you have access to E85 near you?

If so, my personal opinion (and you know what they say about those..) is that for a car that you want to be able to safely drive for a long, long time in modded form E85 should be one of the very first and only power-adding mods you do.

I've done a lot of research on doing 'lightly modded' builds for these cars because I want/need reliability. I nearly DD mine, drive it across the country multiple times per year, etc., etc. so I can't mod the thing to 750+whp and deal with the issues that begin to arise sporadically and regularly at those levels.

In my opinion the absolute best (not necessarily cheapest) "formula" for a lightly modded ride that will be darn near as reliable as stock is:

CAI (A 'normal' size one - not a big gulp or whatever - is plenty for power levels below ~700whp)
LTs with high-flow cats (or catless if you can get away with it and enjoy the sound)
**Mufflers of your choice** (asterisks because the stock NPP is a great muffler with an amazing sound with LTs in front of them)
DSX E85 kit
- flex sensor
- auxiliary pump (I don't trust BAPs long-term. They honestly just seem like a band-aid to me and I would not trust it driving my car 7000+ miles per year every year)
- ID1050s
Auxiliary Fuel Filter (E85 is not friendly to the stock in-pump filter. If you want reliability and E85 it's a good insurance policy)
2.55 pulley with solid isolator (I know the appeal is just throwing a super small pulley on because it is easy and gives you a lot of boost, but even with an upgraded heat exchanger the heat issue is real and difficult to deal with in our cars due to the $#!^ intercooler brick. Jannetty typically doesn't even recommend doing an upgraded HX because the Brick is the true issue for our cars.)
Reinforced Brick (Won't help flow but it'll stop it from collapsing which is a problem even at stock boost levels over time.)
Catch Can
A Good Tune (Stressing that reliability is your #1 concern. Purposefully leave HP and RPM on the table. Tune it so safely that the time when the Gas Station puts 87 in their 91 tank and the E85 pump is broken so you end up unknowingly putting 87 in, it still runs..albeit like it's real unhappy. Find a tuner that will not just throw it on a dyno but will also drive it and do real-world driving tuning. A good tune is an investment in terms of reliability.)

It's a lot of items (including a handful that many people opt not to do because they don't want to pay for them and are apparently in a position to not worry about the reliability concerns) for not a massive amount of HP. If you look at the power-adding items, you're "only" making like 540-560 at the wheels (depending on transmission, dyno type, etc.) on 91 and "only" 590-630 at the wheels (depending on transmission, dyno type, etc.) on full E85.

It's an over-built combo on purpose. Many other people would say "Wow now you're ready to throw on a lower pulley and swap cams and make real power!!!1111oneoneone" but if reliability is an actual concern for you, then your reply to that would be "No thanks, I'm ready to drive like this every single day for years to come without worrying about...anything, really."

One of the big questions I am sure I will be asked is "why no HX?" I slightly addressed it already - because of how the Brick is so restrictive, there are very few real-world scenarios where an increase in size of HX will be of real benefit. Especially because our cooling package is setup 'old school' style where it is all sandwiched together at the front. Increasing the size of the HX will just make the rest of the cooling package less effective - a 'rob Peter to pay Paul' sort of situation that simply won't benefit you that much. If the majority of the fun you're gonna have with the car is on the street (30-110 on an onramp and then just cruising at highway speed, or medium-throttle play in some twisties where you aren't even able to really safely give it the beans like you could on a closed track) I would say forego the HX. I am in agreement with Jannetty on this one, and I know many people will come in here and argue tooth-and-nail about it. Just my opinion. Additionally though, the 2.55 pulley is relatively unaggressive and this combo is going to bleed some boost (LTs without a more purposeful boost-oriented cam) and benefits from the inherent cooling properties of running E85.

Another question I will likely be asked is "Are the catch can and aux fuel filter really necessary?" My response would be "If you care about longevity and reliability, think of them as insurance policies. You basically just throw them on and forget about them...other than the obvious parts where you need to empty the can and whatnot" lol.

Reliability is not just about never needing to address big issues - it's about never needing to worry about addressing big issues. It's why we all do great basic maintenance on these cars. It's why we check fluid levels in between routine maintenance intervals even though there's no leaks or signs of burning fluids. It's why we constantly listen for new/different noises to pop up. It's not because we are worried at every moment - it's because we want to ensure we prevent the 'big failures' from happening. Stop/catch them before they happen. It gives peace of mind.

Thank you for that excellent information. This confirms a lot of what I have been thinking. I do not have E85 available near me, but always mod my cars for reliability over HP. I already have a CAI & am currently deciding on which catch can to go with. This winter I'll be doing the solid isolator & reinforced brick regardless of my decision to mod. Trying to decide if I want to do injectors & 2.55 upper at the same time. If I do that I like the thought of doing headers to reduce boost some and keep some heat out, but also don't want it too loud. I plan on putting on a pulley hub with a stock size pulley when I have the snout off, even if I decide not to mod at the time. There is always risk in modifying a car, even with good parts and a good tuner (good tuner & parts greatly mitigate this risk), but cars are an expression of the owner & I like modifying my cars. This is a Sunday car that sees 1/4 mile & road course 1-2X per year. I plan to be buried with this car, but you never know what life throws at you & stock cars sell much quicker than modified ones. I have lots of thinking to do...