Electric Vehicles

[snizzle]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

In typical GM fashion, it’s complicated. It was announced earlier that 2025 would be the last MY for Blazer, XT5, and XT6. All off of the Chi platform. Then XT5 was extended to end of 2026. Then Blazer was announced as going to Fairfax as a next gen. Maybe there is renewed hope with the refresh. If the refresh is as solid as the Acadia refresh (also off of Chi) there may be something to that.

I'm particularly interested because we bought a '24 and my wife loves the vehicle. I think personally it should be doing better than it is. The Acadia is a sister car to the Traverse if you will, right? So the Blazer would still slot in between the Traverse and the Equinox as a 2 row midsize I guess if they decided to refresh it again. I doubt we see anything truly "all new" on the ICE side anymore. The V6 could be exchanged for the GM mild hybrid powertrain by then maybe. Timing could line up.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by snizzle

I'm particularly interested because we bought a '24 and my wife loves the vehicle. I think personally it should be doing better than it is. The Acadia is a sister car to the Traverse if you will, right? So the Blazer would still slot in between the Traverse and the Equinox as a 2 row midsize I guess if they decided to refresh it again. I doubt we see anything truly "all new" on the ICE side anymore. The V6 could be exchanged for the GM mild hybrid powertrain by then maybe. Timing could line up.

Chi platform has short wheelbase and long wheelbase variants, just like Alpha (Camaro = SWB, CT5 = LWB). So with Chi, Blazer, XT5, and pre-refresh Acadia were SWB, XT6, Traverse, Enclave are LWB. In retrospect, I can see that Acadia moving to the LWB was probably a precursor to clearing the decks for eliminating the SWB Chi. Blazer and XT5 were both planned for drop so moving Acadia to LWB effectively kills the SWB. So maybe bringing Blazer back moves it to the LWB, but with some differentiation from Traverse? If so, PHEV might be the play. I don't think GM is doing anything with mild hybrid.

When I was still there in Portfolio Planning I was pushing hard, maybe too hard, for a high volume 48V MHEV strategy. Resoundingly rejected. Granted that was as much as 10 years ago seeing as how I retired 8 years ago, so minds may have been changed since. But what I see in our forecasting data is consistent with GM not going the MHEV route. A 2.5L PHEV for a new LWB Blazer could make sense.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by genxer

I just saw on Saturday one of the 100 people who bought a Lucid at hypermiling speed on a highway stretch of US22 in PA, where it's posted 55 opening up to 65, everyone going around.

I'll offer an alternative suggestion...could be the person driving it was not the owner, but someone driving it for a review or a test drive or something. Lucid is the least likely EV on the road to be concerned with range anxiety. They have models with well over 400 - 500 miles range. Could be the driver(?) was unfamiliar with the controls and was spending too much time trying to figure out what was what. All the stuff you're supposed to do in the parking lot BEFORE you take the vehicle out for a drive. Was it a sedan or SUV?

Originally Posted by genxer

EV drivers drive slow probably to avoid a recharge, or just aren't purchasing for performance whatsoever. Focusing on lowering EV mass is chasing a ghost. Deep cold, drag hurt range more.

Tesla has the disengaged-enthusiast EV driver paradox market totally covered, and is that ghost. Paying off for large castings may also be a reason they keep body styles around so long.

Why Tesla takes so long to change up their products, especially Model S and Model X perplexes me. Arguably, building vehicles on a skateboard should provide maximum flexibility to change the tophat with very little investment in revising the underlying platform. GM and Hyundai Kia are the best examples of this. For GM Blazer EV, Equinox EV, Lyriq, Optiq, Vistiq, and several more upcoming product launches are all built on the same basic skateboard. Add Honda Prologue and Acura ZDX to that list. Hummer EV, Escalde iQ, Silverado EV, and Sierra EV are all off the same skateboard. When EV versions of Tahoe, Yukon, and Suburban surface they will also be off that same skateboard. It would seem like Tesla should have been able to launch multiple new / revised products with different topmast and same skateboard underpinnings. For Hyundai Kia Ioniq 5, Ioniq 6, and Kia EV6 and Genesis GV60 are all on the same skateboard.

Originally Posted by genxer

I don't think this Tesla is getting repaired: https://www.carscoops.com/2025/07/te...craziest-part/ "Tesla Pierced Front To Back And Somehow That’s Not Even The Craziest Part
A California driver miraculously walked away after a guardrail speared straight through his EV"

I think that's an old one. I recall seeing that picture and article before. I think Tesla is way out ahead of their skis in what they claim FSD can do and how it actually behaves. I have first hand experience with some of the misbehavior that FSD is capable of. I have narrowed down some of the misbehavior to it not totally understanding what to do when towing a bike carrier on a factory installed tow hitch. I no longer even try to use it when I'm hauling bikes. It gets confused about lane positioning and makes really dumb decisions. The worst was to try to start a lane change from the center to the left lane with a speeding Michigan State Trooper approaching, lights flashing at over 100 mph. I saw the trooper coming and snatched it back into the center lane, but what if I hadn't? Here's a video I took the last time I used FSD while hauling a bike. https://youtu.be/wDHCy8-NAVM

[Mr_Draco]

I thought they was killing the ICE Blazer? So GM changed their minds and are keeping it? I really hope they keep the V6 option when they move factories in 2027. I'm going to have to buy something new in 2-3 years and the Blazer RS was at the top of my list and was so bummed when I read it was discontinued.

[genxer]

It was a sedan, around Ebensburg. Heading in the general direction of either State College or N.E. PA more likely, or maybe southeast. There's no Lucid studio close. This is a nice area for test driving, if you know the roads, and don't mind a chip in your paint.

Tesla is threading a needle between a middle class, and more of a bourgeois one. I'm surprised they haven't been squeezed from low price fwd based cars below. Or more susceptible to fashion choices above, where I expect convenience improvements will matter much more than performance. Trucks are still not a good idea.

The catch with autonomous systems seems to be: it would be, if ideal, desireable for an aging parent with slower decision making. But as it is luls people into, or allows a state of lower awareness that is harder to suddenly jump to action from. I know my mother would not be handle the situation you encountered. People still face the time to stop driving.

[snizzle]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Chi platform has short wheelbase and long wheelbase variants, just like Alpha (Camaro = SWB, CT5 = LWB). So with Chi, Blazer, XT5, and pre-refresh Acadia were SWB, XT6, Traverse, Enclave are LWB. In retrospect, I can see that Acadia moving to the LWB was probably a precursor to clearing the decks for eliminating the SWB Chi. Blazer and XT5 were both planned for drop so moving Acadia to LWB effectively kills the SWB. So maybe bringing Blazer back moves it to the LWB, but with some differentiation from Traverse? If so, PHEV might be the play. I don't think GM is doing anything with mild hybrid.

When I was still there in Portfolio Planning I was pushing hard, maybe too hard, for a high volume 48V MHEV strategy. Resoundingly rejected. Granted that was as much as 10 years ago seeing as how I retired 8 years ago, so minds may have been changed since. But what I see in our forecasting data is consistent with GM not going the MHEV route. A 2.5L PHEV for a new LWB Blazer could make sense.

This is interesting. Is this what Cadillac is getting in '27 along with the Chevy equivalent (Blazer)?
https://carbuzz.com/2027-cadillac-xt5-getting-new-life/

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by genxer

It was a sedan, around Ebensburg. Heading in the general direction of either State College or N.E. PA more likely, or maybe southeast. There's no Lucid studio close. This is a nice area for test driving, if you know the roads, and don't mind a chip in your paint.

Ok, so a Lucid Air. Depending on the configuration range could be as much as 512 miles. All trims deliver at least 400 miles.

Originally Posted by genxer

Tesla is threading a needle between a middle class, and more of a bourgeois one. I'm surprised they haven't been squeezed from low price fwd based cars below. Or more susceptible to fashion choices above, where I expect convenience improvements will matter much more than performance. Trucks are still not a good idea.

The average price of vehicles on dealer lots as I type this is $49,523.

Model 3 RWD starts at $42,490 and AWD starts at $47,490. All below the average price of vehicles on dealer lots. That is NOT including the $7,500 incentive. Below the average sticker price of vehicles on the lot today plus significant savings from not having to buy gas, especially for those that can charge at home.

Model Y RWD starts at $44,990 and AWD starts at $48,990, not factoring in the $7,500 for those who take delivery before September 30th. Tesla's high volume models sit squarely within the average for new vehicles purchased.

Originally Posted by genxer

The catch with autonomous systems seems to be: it would be, if ideal, desireable for an aging parent with slower decision making. But as it is luls people into, or allows a state of lower awareness that is harder to suddenly jump to action from. I know my mother would not be handle the situation you encountered. People still face the time to stop driving.

Totally agree with this. I am really disappointed with people whose primary reason for selecting Tesla over any other vehicle is FSD. They completely hand over all driving responsibility to the car even though Tesla's own documentation about the system says you cannot do that. Even if there is an implied "wink-wink" in the Tesla documentation.

[GreenZLE]

Electric sux. All those clowns in Cali with EV's that had their houses burn down polluted the entire area with lithium and other toxic chemicals. Had they been ICE vehicles, much less toxins in the air!!!

[detamble13]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Why Tesla takes so long to change up their products, especially Model S and Model X perplexes me.https://youtu.be/wDHCy8-NAVM

Is there a large investment in their gigacastings that would lead them to prolong a vehicles body style?

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I am really disappointed with people whose primary reason for selecting Tesla over any other vehicle is FSD. They completely hand over all driving responsibility to the car even though Tesla's own documentation about the system says you cannot do that. Even if there is an implied "wink-wink" in the Tesla documentation.

The best description I've read regarding the pitfalls of FSD is that it makes the easy part of driving easier and the hard parts much harder.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by detamble13

Is there a large investment in their gigacastings that would lead them to prolong a vehicles body style?

Yes, but that's kinda the point. Because you can do so much with the tophat (the part of the car the customer sees) you DON'T have to make changes to the platform (the part the customer doesn't see). It's also simpler to change wheelbase on a skateboard. On a typical ICE body-on-frame or unibody, there is significant re-engineering involved in changing wheelbase. That's why it's typically only done at a vehicle major upgrade. With a skateboard EV you simply extend or contract the size of the battery box. That's an over-simplification, but not by a lot. Tesla could have done a lot more with Model S and X to change the appearance and or add interior compartment changes without ever touching the platform. But they didn't. I hear that they are about to introduce a longer wheelbase Model Y though.

Originally Posted by detamble13

The best description I've read regarding the pitfalls of FSD is that it makes the easy part of driving easier and the hard parts much harder.

I think that's very accurate.

[detamble13]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Yes, but that's kinda the point. Because you can do so much with the tophat (the part of the car the customer sees) you DON'T have to make changes to the platform (the part the customer doesn't see).

Ah OK. I thought the gigacasting influenced the body style.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by detamble13

Ah OK. I thought the gigacasting influenced the body style.

.

You make a good point. Something I had completely forgotten about. At one point Tesla was saying they would progress to a single gigacasting to produce the entire underbody. That would have been a huge investment and would have locked them in on many elements of design. They have since moved to a strategy where there are (3) major components of the underbody. A front gigacasting, a rear gigacasting, and the skateboard that holds the battery box and motors. Going to a single gigacasting would have locked them in on wheelbase and track. They have also removed the floor from the vehicle frame, leaving the top of the battery box as the vehicle’s floor.

In the picture below I’ve circled the two gigacastings. Each is one single cast / stamped part. For most vehicles that would be hundreds of smaller welded parts.

[Mr_Draco]

Martin, do you have any insight to the new VinFast EV plant opening up here North Carolina?

Do you know anything about their EV's that you could share?

[Martinjlm]

Engineering Explained has long been one of my favorite YouTube channels, right up there with Throttle House. When they collaborated on an episode my head nearly exploded. Here is the latest post from Engineering Explained. Please watch.

https://youtu.be/QFLrDaV6nkE?si=hstGVVn0NeetXSz1