Info and thoughts on LSA/Whipple Kits or others Thinking about FI.

[Joe.G]

So I am in the early stages of thinking about maybe going FI, I see Take off LSA Kits are going up in price and Whipples are pushing 8K. I am just wondering what your guys thoughts are and maybe have some better ideas or ideas of where to purchase. I would like to get a fairly complete set up.


This would be on an LS3. All tips and what to look out for are appreciated.


Thanks

[CamaroDreams76]

LSA is a good cheaper option but your definitely limited on those. Figure size alone a LSA blower is a 1.9L Eaton. The Whipple is a 2.9L. For 600 maybe 700whp the stock LSA is a great choice but after that you're spending just as much as the Whipple because now you're porting it and really need to think about cooling mods and reinforcing or upgrading the intercooler bricks.

Best chance is wait for black friday or some big sale day and see if you can scoop something up or just continue to scroll through the classifieds here. Gold appears every now and then.

Either way, you know the saying "gotta pay to play." I thought I got a good deal on my twin turbo kit and fuel system. $10,400 for my AGP kit with upgraded turbos, upgraded intercooler, 1400cc injectors and a triple pump fuel system.

[tartagliazl1]

hey Joe. a lsa kit is a good way to go. The hardest part will be finding a zl1 lid $1500. what's your HP goals? you can also go lt4 supercharger, they are cheaper, lighter, more efficient. you'll have to pick up a ict billet lt4 to ls3 kit. But at $1500 for that kit it will be the same as a lsa. my lsa is a standard port and im at 780 hp 750 tq not too shabby for a lsa. an xport will get you 800 easy. keep an eye out on marketplace good deals show up now and then. plus we have a long winter ahead to look for deals.

[tartagliazl1]

maybe we can work out a deal on mine, im looking at going kong 2650. trying to sell my drag pack and lsa heeds for the funds.

[Joe.G]

I don't see my self wanting to push over 700 to 800 HP, This is a street car with some track days and honestly would probably be happy with 600 ish. I would prefer to buy from a well known member so maybe we could figure something out. I am in the early planning stages.

[Batmanntexas]

Originally Posted by CamaroDreams76

LSA is a good cheaper option but your definitely limited on those. Figure size alone a LSA blower is a 1.9L Eaton. The Whipple is a 2.9L. For 600 maybe 700whp the stock LSA is a great choice but after that you're spending just as much as the Whipple because now you're porting it and really need to think about cooling mods and reinforcing or upgrading the intercooler bricks.

Best chance is wait for black friday or some big sale day and see if you can scoop something up or just continue to scroll through the classifieds here. Gold appears every now and then.

Either way, you know the saying "gotta pay to play." I thought I got a good deal on my twin turbo kit and fuel system. $10,400 for my AGP kit with upgraded turbos, upgraded intercooler, 1400cc injectors and a triple pump fuel system.

That is a great price for all of that!!

[acammer]

Are you firmly locked in on a PD (positive displacement) supercharger, or are you open-minded to centrifugal supercharger options. PD blowers are fun, but I think people sleep on centrifugal superchargers, assuming they are somehow lesser performing. I would argue that a centrifugal supercharger is a BETTER option.

The instant power and torque of a PD blower is incredibly fun to cruise around with, and certainly gives a feeling of power any time you crack the throttle. However, the PD has a few drawbacks that I think make it a second place contender to a good centri setup. The single biggest problem PD blowers have is that because of the way they compress air, they generate a substantial amount of heat which they impart into the air they move, as well as the supercharger itself, which being situated direct on the engine, drives more heat into engine as well. There are really good heat exchanger systems for PD blowers, but outside of the complicated and expensive interchiller system, even a very good heat exchanger will experience heat soak after just a few pulls. Heat soak is the supercharger systems rising temps, which results in hotter air entering the engine. Engines do not like hot air, and ignition timing must be reduces to prevent detonation as these temps climb. These end result is declining performance as a PD gets hotter. It takes time “off-power” at cruising speed to recover temperatures back to nominal.

So, PD blowers suffer from heat soak issues. The blower itself is fairly heavy, and the air to water intercooling system with pump, electronics, multiple heat exchangers, coolant and reservoir is also heavier, and combined you have a much more complex and heavy setup than the air to air system of a centri. The incredible low engine speed torque can also make for a more difficult to manage power delivery, and is also harder on the engine than the more natural power delivery of the centri. Finally, to be optimized, they also like a specific camshaft designed for the needs of how a PD blower produces airflow. They also need PD blower specific torque converters to deal with the massive low engine speed torque, and prefer modest gearing to help manage all that torque on the starting line.

In contrast, the centri is a lighter, simpler setup that suffers far less from heat soak. The rising boost curve is much easier on the engine – the more modest boost levels through the midrange where peak torque occurs means that the bottom end takes much less strain than a PD blower setup will, and the power is easier to manage when launching the car. The airflow and power curve they produce is very much like a bigger, more power naturally aspirated engine, and this means that they work well with camshafts, torque converters, and gearing commonly found in naturally aspirated builds. This makes the centri a very natural upgrade path from a nicely equipped NA build.

Now, the latest in PD blower offerings such as the 2650 combined with Magnuson's take on the cooling side are closing the gap on efficiency, thermal management, and top end performance. But I still contend that the Centri actually produces a more usable power curve in a ligther, more efficient package that is easier on the engine and has better thermal stability.

As someone above already said, keep in mind that you've got a few thousand dollars of fuel system that needs to go along with whatever setup you land on. We carry several different blower manufacturers and types here at GPI, along with all the fuel system stuff you could need. If I can help, feel free to reach me directly at andrew@gwatneyperformance.com.

[Joe.G]

Would fuel system upgrades be the same for both? Fuel Pump and injectors? What else would I need on that side? Best to replace pump in tank? any other options? I am not against the Centri style But do like the look and the instant power of a PD.

[acammer]

Originally Posted by Joe.G

Would fuel system upgrades be the same for both? Fuel Pump and injectors? What else would I need on that side? Best to replace pump in tank? any other options? I am not against the Centri style But do like the look and the instant power of a PD.

Fueling is essentially the same with either blower. I'm a big fan of keeping the factory fuel pump and using a aux pump that runs only as needed to supplement the factory system, preserving it's life-cycle greatly. This gives you that OEM reliability and PWM control so you're not needlessly moving and heating fuel through a return system with a big pump that's constantly running flat out, loading the electrical system as well. There comes a point where multiple in-tank pumps and a return setup is necessary, but for your power goals the aux pump makes the most sense. DSX makes a very well proven system that integrates seamlessly and provides all the fuel your goals will need.

Injectors are also required, and a quality option that will suit power goals up to 800whp on pump gas would be ID1050x injectors. These are quality, well matched injectors that have an excellent reputation for quality as well as well defined injector data, which is critical for proper tune calibration.

[ariZona28]

Might want to consider forged internals. A good friend of mine did an LSA S/C on his stock '10 LS3 and bent a rod/catastrophic failure. Around 700 WHP.

https://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=613116

[acammer]

Originally Posted by ariZona28

Might want to consider forged internals. A good friend of mine did an LSA S/C on his stock '10 LS3 and bent a rod/catastrophic failure. Around 700 WHP.

I would agree that forged internals are the ideal choice any time boost is involved. But with that said, they are certainly not a requirement at the 700whp mark. A bent rod is an odd failure - the typical weak point is going to be the piston. As power levels climb and cylinder pressure goes up so does heat. That heat will eventually cause the ring gap clearance to diminish to zero, and when it does those rings will start to really grab at the bore, which in turn typically results in the ring-land being ripped right off the crown of the piston. From there it's on and any number of catastrophic outcomes are possible.

Forged internals with appropriate ring gap will tolerate that heat and pressure much better, but the stock stuff can easily sustain 800+whp with a good, careful tune. Plenty of fuel, modest ignition timing, and it's very doable. The tune (and a quality fuel system) will be the determining factors on a SBE setup that's pushed hard with boost.

[ariZona28]

Discussed the situation with my friend and I theorized that during the burnout the tires heated up, then hooked up and the shock was transmitted directly (man trans) to the weak link. This might not have happened with an auto car as the fluid coupling in the TQ may have lessened the shock. He has since rebuilt as a forged 416, still waiting for dyno results.

[Joe.G]

I see these kits listed on GPI, I am not 100 % sure the differences but they all appear to be around the same price.
What else would I need?
I have not wrote off a Procharger yet but at this point I am leaning towards these.


https://gwatneyperformance.com/whipp...harger-system/
https://gwatneyperformance.com/magnu...-26-62-370-bl/
https://gwatneyperformance.com/magnu...-26-62-158-bl/

[CamaroDreams76]

You should jump all over this. Member whos established already and a steal at the price.

https://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=635487