Consolidated Toyota Recall/Safety thread

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

It makes perfect sense:

A stuck throttle is a safety issue.
A fail-safe/redundant throttle sensor is not. It is to prevent the safety issue from becoming an...issue.
And I never defined a fail-safe.

The safety engineering should start at the throttle components, and thus make the "fail-safe" components unnecessary. I also said that there are other ways to overcome the issue that toyota is experiencing...only intended as support of my belief that they shouldn't be "made" to do anything.

You don't quite appreciate the importance of a fail-safe. A fail-safe is a design such that when the components fail, they do so in a safe manner. And yes, you should expect components to fail. Murphy's Law of Engineering dictates that anything which can go wrong eventually will (yup, its more than just a joke). Knowing this, you can attempt design critical systems such that there is a safe failure mode, a fail safe.

In the cast of unintended acceleration (regardless of reason, be it from the pedal or internal software glitches), the fail safe is in the programing. If it reads moderate to high throttle and full braking pressure while at a non-zero speed, cut the fuel supply to the engine and shift transmission to neutral (for automatics).

[FenwickHockey65]

The US government is now urging owners of recalled toyotas to stop driving their cars.

[Brokinarrow]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

The US government is now urging owners of recalled toyotas to stop driving their cars.

Seriously or just joking? Funny either way Now someone correct me here, but if the car started running away from you.... couldn't you just turn it off? Or does it have to be in park for automatic cars? (been so long since I've driven one)

[derklug]

The only problem with the brake fail-safe is two footed drivers. The fail-safe in a drive by wire setup is achieved by using two sensors, typically one going up in voltage and one going down, or one that reads 1/2 the voltage of the other. The more variables placed in the system, the greater the chance of programming, mechanical, and operator error. This problem won't be fixed with a shim, IMO, but Toyota is doing it to look like they are being responsible and get the Feds off their backs. I expect to see a "Emissions" recall implemented in the next few months that will effect most of these vehicles, and the reflash will also contain some new throttle parameters.

[2ndgenz28]

Originally Posted by Brokinarrow

Seriously or just joking?

Its all over the news, transportation sec LaHood for the US is telling owners to stop driving their toyota's and return them.

And the stock is falling

[MLL67RSSS]

derklug, they're one step ahead of you:

http://money.cnn.com/2010/02/01/auto...dex.htm?hpt=T2

"Lentz said he is confident that resolving this issue and the floor mat entrapment problem will solve the problem for Toyota. The automaker has also said it is making 'brake override' -- a system that cuts engine power to the wheels as soon as the brake pedal is pressed -- standard equipment on all of its cars.

The 'brake override' software will also be added to the internal computers on some cars as they are brought in for recall repairs, a Toyota spokesman said."

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Brokinarrow

Seriously or just joking? Funny either way Now someone correct me here, but if the car started running away from you.... couldn't you just turn it off? Or does it have to be in park for automatic cars? (been so long since I've driven one)

He's serious. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood has urged people to stop driving their recalled Toyotas. Its not recomended that you turn a car off while its moving. Do that and you lose power steering and power brakes. Put it in neutral, bring it to a stop, and then shut it off. Though I think the majority of drivers out there (particularly the ones that buy Toyota's appliances) don't know enough to figure this out while their car is out of control.

Originally Posted by derklug

The only problem with the brake fail-safe is two footed drivers. The fail-safe in a drive by wire setup is achieved by using two sensors, typically one going up in voltage and one going down, or one that reads 1/2 the voltage of the other. The more variables placed in the system, the greater the chance of programming, mechanical, and operator error. This problem won't be fixed with a shim, IMO, but Toyota is doing it to look like they are being responsible and get the Feds off their backs. I expect to see a "Emissions" recall implemented in the next few months that will effect most of these vehicles, and the reflash will also contain some new throttle parameters.

toyota electronics investigated by nhtsa

Originally Posted by Autoblog

Reports from multiple news outlets cite sources within the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration who claim the government is now looking into electrical problems as the source for Toyota's recall troubles. The unnamed agency employee reportedly told CNN that the government is investigating whether electromagnetic interference might cause the electronic throttle control system to malfunction. The source went on to add that the agency has found no evidence of problems with the electronic throttle, though engineers at NHTSA were still actively investigating the matter.

News of a possible electronics investigation comes not long after Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood claimed that NHTSA "wasn't done with Toyota," and that the Japanese automaker was "a little safety deaf." Shinichi Sasaki, Toyota's vice president in charge of quality, reportedly claimed that the embattled automaker has never found any evidence of electrical problems, a familiar line from the automaker that we've heard since the latest recall was announced. Toyota has been quick to state, however, that it will do anything possible to cooperate in the investigation.

At least one safety expert feels NHTSA should have investigated electronic issues long ago. Sean Kane, president of Safety Research Strategies, said in a recent interview that "by all appearances, electronics are playing a significant role in the problems." Kane says 2002–2006 Camry and 2005–2007 Tacoma models should specifically be investigated, and he points to a case of a 2005 Camry owner who experienced unintended acceleration as he attempted to park. The driver instead launched 23 feet and then dropped off of a 70-foot cliff, killing the driver's wife. Kane says the floor mat was securely fastened to the floor when the accident occurred.

As is typically the case with "anonymous sources," we expect an announcement from NHTSA any day now. Is the safety organization trying to show Congress just how hard it's working to find a solution for Toyota's problems in advance of the February 10 hearing on Capitol Hill? Could be, but more negative press is the last thing Toyota needs right now.

[derklug]

Thought they would try to hide it so they wouldn't get blamed for a software failure.

[DGthe3]

The news just keeps getting better and better. Toyota's reputation is going to take a very big hit from all this. The average consumer with blind acceptance that Toyotas are great won't be so sure any more ... and thats good enough for me.

[maximus7969]

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

The news just keeps getting better and better. Toyota's reputation is going to take a very big hit from all this. The average consumer with blind acceptance that Toyotas are great won't be so sure any more ... and thats good enough for me.

Finally. Maybe the media won't portray Toyota as god's greatest gift to automotive industry anymore.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by a_Username

Finally. Maybe the media won't portray Toyota as god's greatest gift to automotive industry anymore.

They're gonna focus on Hyundai/Kia next.

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

They're gonna focus on Hyundai/Kia next.

Wouldn't doubt it. I just came out of my history class today and I noticed something... Everyone downs whatever anything American does.

[Angrybird 12]

I just saw where now Toyota is having to investigat the 2010 Prius for brakes that are failing... Their stock has really dropped in the last few weeks also...

http://www.insideline.com/toyota/pri...omplaints.html

NHTSA Getting Toyota Prius Brake Complaints

Published Dec 28, 2009

WASHINGTON — In another unpleasant turn of events for Toyota, the 2010 Prius is the subject of a spate of complaints about brake performance coming in to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

The Office of Defects Investigation has received a few dozen reports of defective brake performance on the model, most dated within the past two months. An example of owner feedback is the report from an owner of a new 2010 Prius with 400 miles on the odometer who states, "When the car goes over an uneven or bumpy [surface,] the car accelerates or lurches forward....this has occurred at least four times." Others report a "disturbing lag," "jerky brakes" and "the brakes feel like they cut out for a brief (well under a second) period."

One driver suggests that the car's change-over from regenerative to friction braking could be the cause of the problem.

NHTSA has not yet opened an official investigation into the issue. The Detroit Bureau blog quoted a Toyota spokesperson as saying the company is "aware of the complaints filed with NHTSA" and that "We are investigating the issue based on internet traffic, customer comments to Toyota Customer Relations, and NHTSA complaints. It is too early to speculate the final conclusion(s) of our investigation and subsequent actions."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100203/...n_toyota_prius

TOKYO – Toyota Motor Corp. has been hit by over 100 complaints in the U.S. and Japan about brake problems with the popular Prius hybrid, the latest in a spate of quality troubles for the automaker as it grapples with massive global recalls.

The Japanese company's sales are being battered in the U.S. — Toyota's biggest market — after recalls of top-selling models to fix a gas pedal that can stick in the depressed position.

The new Prius gas-electric hybrid, which went on sale in Japan and the U.S. in May 2009, is not part of the recalls that extend to Europe and China, covering nearly 4.5 million vehicles.

The U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has received about 100 complaints involving the brakes of the Prius new model. Two involved crashes resulting in injuries.

Japan's transport ministry said Wednesday it has also received 14 complaints since July last year about brake problems with Toyota's new Prius hybrid.

The 14 complaints included an accident in July 2009, in which a Prius crashed head on into another car at an intersection. Transport ministry official Masaya Ota said two people were slightly injured in the accident.

"The Prius driver in the accident told police that a brake did not work," Ota said. "Other Prius drivers also complained brakes were not so sharp." The complaints in Japan involve the new Prius model, and the vehicles were all made in Japan, he said.

The ministry ordered Toyota, the world's No. 1 automaker, to investigate the complaints. The other 13 cases happened from December to January 2010. Ota said the ministry has yet to receive a formal report on the complaints from Toyota.

Toyota spokeswoman Ririko Takeuchi said the company has received reports about the Prius complaints in North America and in Japan and was now looking into the matter.

Toyota shares plunged 5.7 percent to 3,400 yen ($38) with jittery investors dumping stocks in the wake of the Prius woes in the U.S. and Japan. The benchmark Nikkei stock index edged up just 0.3 percent to 10,404.33 as the drop in Toyota dampened sentiment.

"Investors were worried the latest trouble involving the Prius could get bigger. The problem could pose a bigger question on Toyota's quality and safety," said Kazuhiro Takahashi, market analyst at Daiwa Securities SMBC Co. Ltd.

Also Wednesday, the South Korean government said Toyota's local unit was recalling 444 vehicles over defects in gas pedals and floor mats.

The vehicles were made in North America, and the more than 19,000 Toyota vehicles imported from Japan weren't part of the recall, the Ministry of Land, Transport and Maritime Affairs said in a statement.

Toyota is facing growing criticism that it has not done enough to ensure the safety of its vehicles.

U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood told The Associated Press Tuesday that federal officials had to alert Toyota to the seriousness of the safety issues that eventually led to the recalls.

"They should have taken it seriously from the very beginning when we first started discussing it with them," he said. "Maybe they were a little safety deaf."

LaHood also said the U.S. government was considering civil penalties for Toyota for having dragged its feet on safety concerns.

Toyota executive vice president Shinichi Sasaki acknowledged Tuesday in a Nagoya, Japan, news conference that it took prodding from NHTSA officials for the company to decide on the U.S. recall.

Toyota has long prided itself on sterling vehicle quality and assembly line methods that empowered workers to ensure faultless production.

The latest recall, announced Jan. 21, over sticky gas pedals affects 2.3 million vehicles in the U.S. alone.

Any serious problems emerging in the Prius, Toyota's flagship green car model, is certain to further tarnish its brand.

The Prius, now in its third generation since its 1997 introduction, is the best-selling gas-electric hybrid in the world, racking up a cumulative 1.6 million units sold so far, according to Toyota.

Hybrids, by going back and forth between a gasoline engine and electric motor, tend to offer better mileage in slow-speed and stop-and-go driving that's common in crowded cities.