Will 2012 Z28 be a RPO or SPEC LTD ED?

[OldScoolCamaro]

Hi folks, I would like to pose this question to the Camaro members on the board. I want to purchase a 2012 Z28. I have some concerns that GM may make this a special limited edition like some earler produced Camaro's and limit the production to a low number. Could this turn into a situation where only certain high volume dealers place orders and only get in whatever they get sent? Cars above those already sold in advance would be held to be sold above invoice? Special buyers make arrangments in advance of delivery to scarf up and stash away one of these limited few jems? I hope this won't be like Black Friday at 5 in the morning at Walmart to get one of the few available. However, the price will bear no matter when it comes to obtaining one.

I know, I am sounding a bit paranoid about this but a low number Spec Ltd Ed will make it difficult for a regular Camaro Joe like me to obtain one. This would really break my heart man if that happens. I have had many Camaro's over the decades and am a dyed in the wool Camaro hot rodder. Z-28 is my car, a part of who I am. Z-28 was the poor man's "Vette back in the day. Same engine, with less handling characteristics. The bar or quality. engineering, and performance has been raised significantly higher since back in the late 60's to mid 70's.

So, I am looking for insight, or pure speculation, from any members if they believe this will be a everyday RPO anyone can walk into the dealer and order or will it be the modern Mother of All Collectible Camaro's and be a Ltd Spc Ed low number run with the eventual new owner being like the kid at Christmas with that exclusive toy nobody else was able to get?

...help me Obi-Wan Kenobi, your my only hope!!!

[hairtrigger]

This is the only thing I have seen that remotely refers to production volumes.



“I haven’t personally heard of the Z28 making a comeback but it wouldn’t surprise me,” said the source. “If that happens, Oshawa is really the only place that would make any sense simply because there are so many common parts from the other Camaros.”
Tony LaRocca, GM’s director of communications, would not comment on a third Camaro coming to Oshawa.
“GM has not confirmed any product plans beyond the soon-to-be-launched Camaro convertible from the Oshawa flex plant,” he said.
The addition of the Z28 model would probably mean only incremental, if any, jobs increases at the Oshawa complex because production would not generate huge volumes.

[DGthe3]

Regular production is still somewhat limited. Its just not a hard number. If GM feels there is a market for around 5000 Z28's a year, they can cope with some increased demand but 10,000 cars is probably out of the question. The suppliers simply won't be able to match it.

I'd expect the Z28 to be probably 5-10% of the total mix. Early on, they will be hard to get because there will be so much more demand than there are cars. Thats the way it was with the SS and even the V6's early on too. But over time, as supply catches demand, it will be easier and easier to get one.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Count on an RPO.

I'd bet production limitations will be determined by economics alone. (Price, affordability, etc)

[OldJedi]

I agree with Dragoneye, It will most likely be available to everyone but demand initially will make it hard to obtain one. There will most likely be allocations to dealerships based on previous Camaro sales and the dealers with the most sales will get the most allocation slots. Each dealer will then be able to sell the few that they do get at what ever price they can feel they can obtain. The better dealers will sell at MSRP and not so good dealers will add $5,000.00 to $20,000.00 as a Market Adjustment to the MSRP price. I am basing this information on previous Corvette sales and I really do not see a difference happening with the Z28.

[radz28]

Personally - I don't think they should limit production. I want to see CAMARO sell as many as possible, and I think GM would like the same. Limiting production just kinda' seems counter-productive to me... I can understand collectability and such, but I could care less how much value the car's going to have in 20 years. I want to enjoy it now, and keep it forever; I have no plans on selling it.

JMVHO.

[rally yellow ss rs]

Will make them worth more in the long run...plus let you have something that isnt in every neighborhood.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by rally yellow ss rs

Will make them worth more in the long run...plus let you have something that isnt in every neighborhood.

I totally see that - it makes sense. I just don't think this is the time. IMVHO - they should have a goal to make and sell products in as high a volume as possible. I totally think it would be great to roll an exclusive limited model, but it's not like they're going to be selling more $50K (or whatever it turns out to be) CAMAROs than Corvettes, so why limit production, drive prices out of the "affordable" range, and almost rob a rabbid enthusiast from what could possible be a dream car? I know I'm completely missing the point of a collectors-type car, I just don't think that should be the focus. Show us how much performance and value you can give us. I think that's what works for the Germans; I know that's why we've gone with a couple more practical German cars, personally...

JMVHO

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by rally yellow ss rs

Will make them worth more in the long run...plus let you have something that isnt in every neighborhood.

At a 5,000 unit production rate (about the number of GT500s sold annually), that's only 5% of all Camaros sold in a year. Hardly what I'd consider in every neighborhood.

Even the Z06, CTS-V, and ZR-1 aren't limited production vehicles. Chevy and Cadillac say "this is how much it costs" and the market says "This is how many we'll buy".

Z28 is no different, imo. In fact, I'd consider it even less likely to be limited than the other three because Camaro is the "everyman's" car. No Camaro before has been a limited production vehicle (except the first gen when they released the Z28 late and didn't tell anyone it was available), and that hasn't harmed collectible value all that much.

Still...I wouldn't be willing to sacrifice the ability of passionate Camaro enthusiasts to purchase their dream car because of collectability concerns.

[newy]

My name was on a 2010 at my dealers long before it could be ordered . When that finally arrived I knew the Z28 would be inevitable and my name is on the first one they can order when the time comes , not taking any chances on limited #s .

[rally yellow ss rs]

Originally Posted by radz28

I totally see that - it makes sense. I just don't think this is the time. IMVHO - they should have a goal to make and sell products in as high a volume as possible. I totally think it would be great to roll an exclusive limited model, but it's not like they're going to be selling more $50K (or whatever it turns out to be) CAMAROs than Corvettes, so why limit production, drive prices out of the "affordable" range, and almost rob a rabbid enthusiast from what could possible be a dream car? I know I'm completely missing the point of a collectors-type car, I just don't think that should be the focus. Show us how much performance and value you can give us. I think that's what works for the Germans; I know that's why we've gone with a couple more practical German cars, personally...

JMVHO

Your right, when they mark up that price they are making that much more exclusive. In a market like this 50k is exclusive I think. I think GM should give us Supercharger kits thru them to allow us to keep the Camaro ss we have now and have it warranteed.

[rally yellow ss rs]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

At a 5,000 unit production rate (about the number of GT500s sold annually), that's only 5% of all Camaros sold in a year. Hardly what I'd consider in every neighborhood.

Even the Z06, CTS-V, and ZR-1 aren't limited production vehicles. Chevy and Cadillac say "this is how much it costs" and the market says "This is how many we'll buy".

Z28 is no different, imo. In fact, I'd consider it even less likely to be limited than the other three because Camaro is the "everyman's" car. No Camaro before has been a limited production vehicle (except the first gen when they released the Z28 late and didn't tell anyone it was available), and that hasn't harmed collectible value all that much.

Still...I wouldn't be willing to sacrifice the ability of passionate Camaro enthusiasts to purchase their dream car because of collectability concerns.

Your right! Just glad there not changing the looks of the Camaro...like another model. That would suck. I was a lil overbourd saying the Z would be in every neighborhood, just noticing more and more Camaros here near my house and at the used car lots.

[OldScoolCamaro]

I went into a fairly large Chevy Dealership here in NJ and spoke with a seasoned salesman. After checking me out he spoke very frankly with me in plain english. He related they knew about the Z28 coming, probably late next year, that regular buyers probably will not see one on the lot or be able to get one because they will be sold on the orders placed by the dealers in advance, depending as previously mentioned on size and success of the particular dealer. Collectors will be in front ordering with the dealer. Initial supply to outweigh demand. He spoke of the Alpha cars coming in a few years so the brief period of the big throwbacks we have now to the circa 1970 machines will be gone once again. Maybe demand will ease up for us regular guys on the second year of the model but how long will they make it, two-three years? They have been in contact with buyers up front already on the Z28, no list, no deposit, but they are taking all personal ID from serious people wishing to get in line. He took my info and said to stay in touch. He said no market adjustment, probably a thousand over MSRP. We'll see. Good info from Dragoneye and OldJedi! Thanks, you guys are a great bunch here and very informative!

[radz28]

Originally Posted by rally yellow ss rs

Your right, when they mark up that price they are making that much more exclusive. In a market like this 50k is exclusive I think. I think GM should give us Supercharger kits thru them to allow us to keep the Camaro ss we have now and have it warranteed.

I believe $50K is pretty exclusive, considering this isn't a 'Vette or a Cadillac. Don't get me wrong - I'm not taking away from CAMARO at all I'd pay what an SRT8 fetches, but it's not like I'd want to I just keep pointing to the value the GT500 and think there's no reason GM can't give us something even a little better. We already have IRS and the better chassis, so if we control the additional weight as much as possible, and added another 40-50 horsepower, I think we're going to be in great shape. I already know we're likely to see other chassis improvements (brakes, wheels, tires, etc.) and I expect Z28 will have a similar "premium" CAMARO had over the Mustang at introduction, but I really don't see a justification as to why GM can't make the car happen. I think it's going to sell well, and represent GM GREAT!

JMHO.

Originally Posted by rally yellow ss rs

Your right! Just glad there not changing the looks of the Camaro...like another model. That would suck. I was a lil overbourd saying the Z would be in every neighborhood, just noticing more and more Camaros here near my house and at the used car lots.

I really can't see much in the way of actually improving the looks of CAMARO to my eyes. As much as I really like the OEM GFX package, I think it takes a little away from the style - a smidge. I REALLY like the TF2 car, and hope they can make some subtle style changes to the rockers and rear facia in addition to that car, along with the wheels. From the outlines we see through the bra and front cover, I'm really liking what I think I'm seeing, and hope we get something really close to this test car.

I don't think you were overboard in your statement, however, I think GM should focus a little less (if they are even thinking about it as such) on a limited run-type car and focus on selling the thing. I thought CAMARO should be an every-guy/girl car and deliberately limiting numbers and making it unreachable isn't too cool. I wouldn't want to take away from those guys with the means for a more exclusive car, but I figure that's where Lingenfelter, Hennessey, SLP, and others come in. Those cars are all going to be a lot more limited and exclusive, IMHO.

All I know is I want Z28 to drive all over the GT500

Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro

I went into a fairly large Chevy Dealership here in NJ and spoke with a seasoned salesman. After checking me out he spoke very frankly with me in plain english. He related they knew about the Z28 coming, probably late next year, that regular buyers probably will not see one on the lot or be able to get one because they will be sold on the orders placed by the dealers in advance, depending as previously mentioned on size and success of the particular dealer. Collectors will be in front ordering with the dealer. Initial supply to outweigh demand. He spoke of the Alpha cars coming in a few years so the brief period of the big throwbacks we have now to the circa 1970 machines will be gone once again. Maybe demand will ease up for us regular guys on the second year of the model but how long will they make it, two-three years? They have been in contact with buyers up front already on the Z28, no list, no deposit, but they are taking all personal ID from serious people wishing to get in line. He took my info and said to stay in touch. He said no market adjustment, probably a thousand over MSRP. We'll see. Good info from Dragoneye and OldJedi! Thanks, you guys are a great bunch here and very informative!