Even if the camaro puts out 570+ HP, would you wait for its answer to Ford?

[Ltespd]

Originally Posted by Black GT

You don't have to wait for Ford to fix the traction problem, Nitto offers the 555R that fit the GT500 rims in 305/35/20.

Awesome tire for dialy driving.

How many miles do those tires get?

[Arachnyd]

Originally Posted by chaotic84

I went with the V6 not because I couldn't afford the V8, but the better gas millage of the V6 as It's a daily driver. I went with the Camaro over the Mustang because it looks so much better IMO.

Not once have I said I wish I got the V8 over the V6 either.

But like I said before once you get up to 550+ HP you are never going to be able to use it's full potential (legally) on the road.

My point was simply not attacking you or anything, but it was that when I had a 300HP I heard people say you can't use 300 HP legally on the road...

And then when the camaro came out, people said why buy a 426 HP- you can't use that much power legally on the road.

so whats the difference in 550+? Its the same story different numbers, people will say you can't use that much power legally on the road...

yet I used 300 HP legally, and PREFERRED the 426 legally... and I will now prefer the 550+ legally is all I'm getting at.

seriously, in the 90s, more then 300 HP seemed ludicrous. Now the V6 camaro outputs more power than a 60k supercar did in the 90s... Back then you would have said the same thing your saying about the ZL1/GT500 - Thats all I'm saying.... I mean Does anyone here ACTUALLY have 650 HP and think its too much power for the street? because I've actually had higher HP numbers than people think are reasonable and I've always appreciated the extra power. So I must presume it will be the same case for 550+!

[Black GT]

Originally Posted by Ltespd

How many miles do those tires get?

Last set was around 10,000 miles, that was on my 2006 Mustang GT.

Also that was strictly used on the street, I have MT ET streets that are for the track.

[bi11ymc]

Originally Posted by chaotic84

I went with the V6 not because I couldn't afford the V8, but the better gas millage of the V6 as It's a daily driver. I went with the Camaro over the Mustang because it looks so much better IMO.

Not once have I said I wish I got the V8 over the V6 either.

But like I said before once you get up to 550+ HP you are never going to be able to use it's full potential (legally) on the road.

I started with a 2LT M6 and was getting 16 city and 26 highway mileage. The car felt heavy and did not brake as well as I liked because of it's weight. I drive 90-95% city driving.

I traded for the 2SS A6 because of the 90-95% city driving. I got 15 city and 24 highway mileage. The car still felt a bit heavy but the brakes did exactly as I thought they should.

I dropped the car off at Vengeance Racing in Cumming, GA and added Pfadt suspension parts and a supercharger and blower cam. I get 14 city and 22 highway mileage. Now the car feels just right!

[Arachnyd]

Originally Posted by TheClassicCarKid

to answer your original question, I don't think the GT500's going to get 650hp with a warranty and stay in the ~50,000 dollar base price arena. Do we really think that Ford is putting out a car with more power than a murcielago for 50 grand? Kudos to them if they do, but I don't see it happening. Maybe 590 or so, point is the difference in performance between the zL1 and Gt500 is going to be negligible.

I'm hoping your right on, and I think you may be right with the approx 50k mark... although it largely depends on how much profit margin they are currently making at it's current price point. Honestly, how much more does it cost to make a GT500 over a GT? Or a ZL1 over an SS? We did hear early on that the cost to produce an SS was not that much more than producing an LT... The profit margin is a lot higher on an SS over an LT. I know I don't have a source for that statement, but I know when the camaro first came out there was a lot of talk about eating profits on the LT for the first year to get average fuel economy numbers down enough to profit off the SS or something down those lines?

On those same lines, how much more would it really cost to get 650 HP out of it? I don't think any of us really know those numbers. I mean heck, a 96 300 HP VR4 cost (todays equivalent) of the mid 60s, and now you can get a 426 HP Camaro in the mid 30s. That sounds ludicrous doesnt it? Whats to say 10 years from now we aren't talking 600 HP in the mid 20s? (todays dollars).

Down those same lines, I know I'm playing devils advocate a bit. I'm hoping your right about the 590 range. Down to a good old battle of engineers...

However, if the profit margin on a ZL1 was 20% at 575 hp, or 12% at 660 HP, but they'd sell twice as many at 660 HP, then it would make complete sense to offer it at 660 HP for the same price.

I think this is what you saw with the mustang in 2010-2011. They sacrificed margin for larger number of sales to stay competitive with the camaro, and in turn saw greater overall financial return.

Chevy AND Ford both know that they BOTH will profit most if they are fairly competitive. Its cheaper to duke it out in marketing efforts than it is in a horsepower race. So IF Ford came out with a 650 HP GT500, I can just about guarantee Camaro will come out with a 650 +/- 20 HP ZL1.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by Scarrzz

.

I've never been a fan of mustang styling. Even when they came out with the retro version my response was "meh." The 77 and thereabouts Mach 1s were an exception. They had the sinister moxy going on to a degree, but for the most part mustangs are just too soft and curvy looking, bubbly, ovoid, and well, girly-sportscar looking. (Apologies to our lovely ladies of Camaro, you're the hotter kind of girl that is more fun to be around. I wasn't talking about you.)

Camaro, and especially ZL1 looks fierce like a cross between a pitbull and a rocketship. That's the car for me.

We have loads of new tech going into this baby, and factory HP that eclipses anything made on this scale - even the legendary original ZL1s.

I hope they push the HP right to the edge where going further would compromise dependability, and I have faith that they're doing it oh so very right with ZL1.

Yeah, easy question to answer in my case. My finger is on the trigger and getting twitchy already.

ZL1 - no waiting.

.

^^^ THIS ^^^ Post of the Day

Originally Posted by truth411

Unless they fix the GT500 traction issues, a 650 HP GT500 is not going to do them much good if it can't get the power down. From what we know of the ZL1, it should be glued to the road pretty well.

That's what I'm hoping for and what I'm sure GM is going to give us. All that power doesn't do any good unless you can put it to work!

The bottom line is, cars should always improve. A lot of that time, it means performing better. The next generation should likely be smaller and more efficient, and probably quicker than this generation is going to be. If you're going to worry about getting the fastest car, you're in for a long wait. It wasn't that long ago more than 400 horsepower was supercar stuff, and look now. We don't think twice about that number; that's probably a minimum for a lot of people.

The answer for me is simple. No other CAMARO, or any other car for that matter, has struck me like CAMARO has, and ZL1 is absolutely the one car I would like to go all-out on and keep forever. There is very little I want to change, bumper-to-bumper. I might accent a few things here or there, and add a little more power, but those are just to make it mine. GM's made this decision quite easy for me, and even if I go with SS, I don't be disappointed at all. CAMARO moves me - that is the end of that. If it doesn't for you, that's fine; keep looking. Worrying about the original topic is almost a waste of time, because it will likely never end, at least not in our lifetime.

JMO.

[Sleestack]

Originally Posted by Black GT

You don't have to wait for Ford to fix the traction problem, Nitto offers the 555R that fit the GT500 rims in 305/35/20.

Awesome tire for dialy driving.

Yah, if tires are your only gripe, that is an easy fix. Easier to add a pair of 305's or 335's than having to worry about upgrading pistons, half shafts, etc... The GT500 is all about having raw performance at insane power levels if you so desire.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by Sleestack

Yah, if tires are your only gripe, that is an easy fix. Easier to add a pair of 305's or 335's than having to worry about upgrading pistons, half shafts, etc... The GT500 is all about having raw performance at insane power levels if you so desire.

Who's to say anything needs upgrading yet, since we still don't have final details?

[sasquash1984]

Originally Posted by SUX2BU

There is a lot more to buying a sports car than advertised horsepower.

[ShnOmac]

For me personally it does not matter what Ford puts on the table..... Its stll a mustang and I want a Camaro!

[BlemsBumble]

^^^Yep! As far as I'm concerned Ford could never have an answer to the ZL1.

[Sleestack]

Originally Posted by radz28

Who's to say anything needs upgrading yet, since we still don't have final details?

I am talking about the GT500 vs. the current crop of performance cars (i.e. SRT8, GT, etc...). If your only gripe against the Shelby is the factory tires are not wide enough, you are pretty much grasping at straws.

[OldScoolCamaro]

Originally Posted by BumblebeeAmigo

2016 is going to be a brick wall to the muscle car world I believe, it'll be a repeat of the 70s although not as intense...

I have a feeling you are right Amigo...that is not a light at the end of the 2016 tunnel....

Originally Posted by Z4me

Not going to wait life is to short so live it to the fullist, if I need more HP i'll mod it.

Originally Posted by SUX2BU

Why do people think you have to have the go fast pedal to the floor to enjoy driving a fast car?

...um..., because thats the point. Analogy;....having a super hot megaton HP factory hot rod and driving it without standing on it (only on occassion, of course ), is like dating a super model with thoughts of only holding hands....

Originally Posted by ShnOmac

For me personally it does not matter what Ford puts on the table..... Its stll a mustang and I want a Camaro!

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by BumblebeeAmigo

When the 2010 Mustang was out, it was embarassed by the 2010 camaro, until Mustang came back in 2011 and matched camaros numbers.

I've been seriously considering a ZL1 and I'm worried that the same thing is going to happen to Chevy- Ford will come out with the 650 HP powerplant that keeps being discussed, and the 570+HP Camaro will be the runt... then in 2013 Camaro will have to match Fords output and historically, the 2012 ZL1 will be the laughing stock of the muscle car wars just like the 2010 mustang is today.

So I guess the real question is, who thinks Ford really is talking 650 HP? If they are, it's got to be 2012/2013, as 2016 the new CAFE standards are taking place and there is no way they will be popping a 650 HP motor out close to that unless they just revolutionized motor design...

I want a ZL1. NOT a Ford. So....my answer would be no.