2011 SS M6 versus 2011 M3

[LEADfoot927]

Originally Posted by BigDan

Oh I know It was just a little funny comment directed at the members who think otherwise.

Because of your failure as a driver doesnt equal the failure of the camaro. Just youtube the keys words and you see an ss pull on an m3 on the top end.

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by ViperTomcat

M3's power ratings are a joke. They're screamers and are extremely quick.

Why is it that someone sees a dyno and assumes every car is underrated?

[BigDan]

Originally Posted by calbert1999

Turns out the M3, which was behind me took off and changed lanes to the fast lane and left me in the dust. I was embarrassed and disappointed to say the least.

Now after supercharing, I have a busted engine waiting for a 427LSX replacement. When will I learn my lesson? I should have drove it back to GM and visited a BMW dealership. But, I guess I'm a sucker for punishment because the SS looks so badass.

Have you read all the threads on the boosted lsx454 blowing?

I dont know if the 427 is stronger but I though I'd just give you a heads up.

I love GMPP, I bought a ZZ4 when I was 19 back in 1998 for my 67 Camaro but you may want to look into a better sort of bomb proof engine that can handle and was designed to take the added stress's of forced induction especially once you decide to crank up the boost and still feel confident that its not going to blow apart because maybe it wasn't designed to handle 18psi+

Its really nice and almost priceless to have piece if mind once that you wont break once you decide to crank up the boost on your built motor. I'm not scared one bit doubling the factory boost in my engine because its been proven to take the abuse and has sophisticated wideband o2 sensors and knock sensor that adjust the timing and make sure the engine is delivering max hp and has a bunch of safe guard to protect the engine in case there is a lack of fuel or air. Maybe you could look into the LS9 which I think you'd be a lot happier with and have a lot more trust in it because it was designed from the ground up have forced induction and has all the necessary factory hardware to take 18+psi. If the LS9 is out of your price range then try to hunt down know motor that can take 17psi in a daily driver and have safe guards built in in case you get some bad fuel or a bad tune.

[MatchbookSS]

Originally Posted by LEADfoot927

Because of your failure as a driver doesnt equal the failure of the camaro. Just youtube the keys words and you see an ss pull on an m3 on the top end.

I don't know about how consistent a claim it is that stock for stock an SS will pull on an M3. Manual vs manual, maybe...but top end is where the M3 is going to be making it's money vs, the LS3.

But also...I guess torque doesn't matter at all, according to some posters in this thread. I mean, horsepower isn't a factor of torque and acceleration. Wait...wait. Oh yeah. It is. Something that the M3 makes very little of.

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by calbert1999

This is what got me going down the path I'm in now.
About, two days after I picked up my brand new SS, I was on the on ramp to the hwy. a BMW M3 was in my rear, and when the on ramp ended me and the BMW gunned it to switch lanes.
Turns out the M3, which was behind me took off and changed lanes to the fast lane and left me in the dust. I was embarrassed and disappointed to say the least.
Now after supercharing, I have a busted engine waiting for a 427LSX replacement. When will I learn my lesson? I should have drove it back to GM and visited a BMW dealership. But, I guess I'm a sucker for punishment because the SS looks so badass.

SS vs M3 = Mod the SS or get a new engine because a baby LS3 in a 4k/lb. SS not going to cut it, and if you boost the LS3 it may not last very long.

Did it ever cross your mind that perhaps your two-day old car wasn't broken in? Plus you were not used to driving it yet? Plus you have no idea if he was modded or not?

SS vs. M3 is a driver's race; it isn't like there is .5 tenths of a difference between the two.

[ffrcobra_65]

people who are dillusional that a stock SS has a chance against a super-speedy shifting stock M3 simply have not driven or raced an M3. With the SS, you have to worry about getting the launch right, shifting correctly, etc. etc. If you have the A6 SS, the auto is not even close to the M3's. With the M3, you just mash the pedal and let it scream to 8k+ RPMs and work your fingers to do lighting-shifts up the gears. No brainer. Stock SS vs Stock M3 = SS gets raped. Let's not even talk about what it will do to the SS in a roadcourse. PAWNNage!

[MatchbookSS]

Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65

people who are dillusional that a stock SS has a chance against a super-speedy shifting stock M3 simply have not driven or raced an M3. With the SS, you have to worry about getting the launch right, shifting correctly, etc. etc. If you have the A6 SS, the auto is not even close to the M3's. With the M3, you just mash the pedal and let it scream to 8k+ RPMs and work your fingers to do lighting-shifts up the gears. No brainer. Stock SS vs Stock M3 = SS gets raped. Let's not even talk about what it will do to the SS in a roadcourse. PAWNNage!

I don't know about you, but I think most of us here are talking about, while not very common, a manual M3 vs a manual SS, at this point. I don't think there's a question concerning the 2011+ DCT M3's.

[calbert1999]

Originally Posted by a_Username

Did it ever cross your mind that perhaps your two-day old car wasn't broken in? Plus you were not used to driving it yet? Plus you have no idea if he was modded or not?

SS vs. M3 is a driver's race; it isn't like there is .5 tenths of a difference between the two.

Break in? LOL
So, I have to drive the car for how long before it's broken in to beat the M3? 1, 2, 3, 4..... 6 months or 1yr.? Will that break-in period reduce the weight of the SS? Will it resolve the shitty GM shifting mechanism? Will it account for the crappy un-forged internals which will only allow me to rev to 5-6k before something breaks? Or can't take 2-5psi. of boost?
Tell me more, so I know next time I purchase a GM sports car what I have to do to beat the competition?
What I've learned about the SS is it's a great "moderately" decent sports car, but when you want to put the pedal to the metal like you could with a Camaro back in the day it falls way short of it's predecessors, and that's due to all the cost saving measures of using parts that meet specs. with very littler tolerance for improvements.
So, you keep breaking in your SS the next time you're up against a vehicle that has a properly built engine, I'll just do what's necessary to get my car to the level I want so I can have some safe, reliable enjoyment and not have to worry that when I take a corner, or rev my engine too hard something is going to break-in.
The LS3 is a good engine block and heads, but at the end of the day, if you don't build the engine properly with good solid internals (not hollow garbage to penny pinch), it will hold up to anything you throw at it. Unfortunately, the european automakers have figured out how to do this and charge extra for it while domestic automakers can't seem to get their heads wrapped around the value proposition of using better parts and convincing consumers their products will stand the test of time. So, when a question is asked will an M3 take an SS, those are the real deciding factors, not whether or not the engine has been broken in or not.
But, yes driver skill always plays a role, and I doubt the other guy was any better or worse than I was at shifting gears.

Originally Posted by BigDan

Have you read all the threads on the boosted lsx454 blowing?

I dont know if the 427 is stronger but I though I'd just give you a heads up.

I love GMPP, I bought a ZZ4 when I was 19 back in 1998 for my 67 Camaro but you may want to look into a better sort of bomb proof engine that can handle and was designed to take the added stress's of forced induction especially once you decide to crank up the boost and still feel confident that its not going to blow apart because maybe it wasn't designed to handle 18psi+

Its really nice and almost priceless to have piece if mind once that you wont break once you decide to crank up the boost on your built motor. I'm not scared one bit doubling the factory boost in my engine because its been proven to take the abuse and has sophisticated wideband o2 sensors and knock sensor that adjust the timing and make sure the engine is delivering max hp and has a bunch of safe guard to protect the engine in case there is a lack of fuel or air. Maybe you could look into the LS9 which I think you'd be a lot happier with and have a lot more trust in it because it was designed from the ground up have forced induction and has all the necessary factory hardware to take 18+psi. If the LS9 is out of your price range then try to hunt down know motor that can take 17psi in a daily driver and have safe guards built in in case you get some bad fuel or a bad tune.

Yeah I have. My understanding is the LSX454 is built for NA and the weak points in that engine is the walls as all engines start out with the same block so shaving off materials (the bore) to get more displacement reduces the thickness of the material and creates the weak points. Not sure why folks are boosting 454 blocks.

Based on my research and discussion with my performance installer, an LS3, LSX418ci. or LSX427ci. are all good blocks for boosted applications. The LS3 is also good for boost if the internals are forged because of the thickness of the walls (not sure why GM did not forge the internals like they did on the LS9 which is really the LS3 block with forged internals at a 9.1:1 compression). The GMPP LSX block is made of forged "steel" not tempered aluminium like most of the blocks floating around out there. So, a good fit for me especially considering form my research is capable of withstanding 2,500 bhp. of course if built correctly. If I'm wrong perhaps someone can correct me.

Match that with some custom 9.1:0 compression pistons and all forged internals and "solid" vs hollow GM valves and I should be good to go with some serious power. This build will allow me to meet my current HP goals at 6-7k/rpm. have good moderate boost of about 12-14psi. (or more if I want), and I won't have to worry about breaking up the block or other internals. And, if I decide I want more later on there will be lots of room to grow. Reallistically, though it would have been nice if I didn't have to do all this s**t, if GM would have simply forged the internals at a 9.1:1 compression (not very difficult considering that's what they're doing with the ZR! LS9(3) block). Most people don't know this so haven't got a clue that for a few extra $$$ they could have had a rock solid LS3(9) engine, that would support boost for a fraction of the cost of forging the engine yourself.

The problem I had was due to the LS3 motor this engine does not have the internals to stand up to boost, so you can take the whole thing apart, forge it, stroke it or you take your chances spend a bunch of cash on an SC and get 500-550hp. to be "ultra" safe or you take your chances and get what you can out of it, with the knowledge that at some point you need to forge the internals or replace the whole LS3 block (that's why I call it a baby block, because it's a new-born LS9 without the growth it could have been built with). Case and point future Vettes have the LS7 (427ci.) or the LS9(3) with forged internals and a 1.9L supercharger. I might be wrong but just seems odd that we have the same block, but not the right internals that's causing a lot of grief for people that expected a little more from this vehicle build. Regarless, I'm sure I'll be satisfied and safe with the LSX build to meet my present and future goals.

[MatchbookSS]

Originally Posted by calbert1999

Break in? LOL
So, I have to drive the car for how long before it's broken in to beat the M3? 1, 2, 3, 4..... 6 months or 1yr.? Will that break in reduce the weight of the SS? Will it resolve the shitty shifting mechanism? Will it account for the crappy un-forged internals which will anly allow me to rev to 5-6k before something breaks?
Tell me more, so I know next time I purchase a GM sports car what I have to do to beat the competition?
What I've learned about the SS is it's a great "moderately" decent sports car, but when you want to put the pedal to the metal like you could with a Camaro back in the day it falls way short of it's predecessors, and that's due to all the cost saving measures of using parts that meet specs. with very littler tolerance for improvements.
So, you keep breaking in your SS the next time you're up against a vehicle that has a properly built engine, I'll just do what's necessary to get my car to the level I want so I can have some safe, reliable enjoyment and not have to worry that when I take a corner, or rev my engine too hard something is going to break.

You do realize that Camaro's from "back in the day" were either no faster, or a good deal slower than the current SS, right?

And you do realize, that the general consensus on this board and elsewhere, is that the LS3/L99 picks up power with a proper break in, right?

And you do realize that pushing boost into "a crappy, un-forged" engine, that isn't designed for it doesn't make it "crappy", right?

Personally, it sounds like you're just displacing blame, just like most people who dump huge amounts of money into mods that the car wasn't originally designed for, and then want to lay the blame of any sort of mechanical failure at the manufacturer's feet, rather than at their own, their tuners, or the aftermarket's... And by the by, if you raced an standard, stock M3, and you were driving a M6 SS, and you lost by bus lengths, it's probably due to the fact that a) he got the jump on you if he was behind you, or b), you're driving skill sucks. Or a combination of both. Especially if this was prior to the release of the 2011+ M3's.

[Sleestack]

Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65

people who are dillusional that a stock SS has a chance against a super-speedy shifting stock M3 simply have not driven or raced an M3. PAWNNage!

This

[MatchbookSS]

Originally Posted by Sleestack

This

Lol. Do you guys all, like, not know how to read? No one is arguing about the competition difference between a new auto DCT M3 and a M6 SS. Jesus. It's like trying to deal with Reading Rainbow kids in here. Lol.

Does anyone actually read the thread?

[REEFBLUE93]

Originally Posted by calbert1999

Break in? LOL
So, I have to drive the car for how long before it's broken in to beat the M3? 1, 2, 3, 4..... 6 months or 1yr.? Will that break-in period reduce the weight of the SS? Will it resolve the shitty GM shifting mechanism? Will it account for the crappy un-forged internals which will only allow me to rev to 5-6k before something breaks? Or can't take 2-5psi. of boost?
Tell me more, so I know next time I purchase a GM sports car what I have to do to beat the competition?
What I've learned about the SS is it's a great "moderately" decent sports car, but when you want to put the pedal to the metal like you could with a Camaro back in the day it falls way short of it's predecessors, and that's due to all the cost saving measures of using parts that meet specs. with very littler tolerance for improvements.
So, you keep breaking in your SS the next time you're up against a vehicle that has a properly built engine, I'll just do what's necessary to get my car to the level I want so I can have some safe, reliable enjoyment and not have to worry that when I take a corner, or rev my engine too hard something is going to break-in.
The LS3 is a good engine block and heads, but at the end of the day, if you don't build the engine properly with good solid internals (not hollow garbage to penny pinch), it will hold up to anything you throw at it. Unfortunately, the european automakers have figured out how to do this and charge extra for it while domestic automakers can't seem to get their heads wrapped around the value proposition of using better parts and convincing consumers their products will stand the test of time. So, when a question is asked will an M3 take an SS, those are the real deciding factors, not whether or not the engine has been broken in or not.
But, yes driver skill always plays a role, and I doubt the other guy was any better or worse than I was at shifting gears.

Oh wow, pretty much your whole post is just riddled with FAIL. If you're blowing motors with 2-5 psi, your tuner is shittier than any LS3 may ever be. GM has a the motor you're thinking of, it comes in the ZR1 and ZL1 but you could probably find a tuner to blow those up for you as well...

[MatchbookSS]

Originally Posted by REEFBLUE93

Oh wow, pretty much your whole post is just riddled with FAIL. If you're blowing motors with 2-5 psi, your tuner is shittier than any LS3 may ever be. GM has a the motor you're thinking of, it comes in the ZR1 and ZL1 but you could probably find a tuner to blow those up for you as well...

[SGOS252382]

M3's are fast.
But from a highway roll, there's no way a stock M3 should leave an SS in the dust, unless the M3 is either modded (chipped) or the SS is the wrong gear.

I spent a day watching and racing a new M3 (back in January). With a good launch, the M3 was consistantly running high 12s. The DA was also quite good that day. A well driven LS3 M6 SS could have run door to door with him.

I would give the advantage to the M3 in a straight line race, but its going to be close (with good drivers in each car).

When I ran him (bolt ons L99), he was many car lengths behind me at the 1/4mile mark.