Any ZL1 mods for HP that do not need a Tune - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

tnspd · 06-24-2012, 03:48 PM

So from what I have been reading are there any ZL1 mods to gain some HP that do not need a Tune. This is rediculous! Everyone I read says you need a tune.......

DangerZL1 · 06-24-2012, 03:51 PM

There's LPE's CAI that says no tune is required, but the HP numbers haven't been published for it.

Mr.R · 06-24-2012, 09:52 PM

I put just a K&N filter in and made a small difference. I'm waiting for the CAI with no tune. Lingenfelter said +20hp over the phone but I want to see the results before I pay $600 for it.

ADM PERFORMANCE · 06-24-2012, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tnspd

So from what I have been reading are there any ZL1 mods to gain some HP that do not need a Tune. This is rediculous! Everyone I read says you need a tune.......

Why is it ridiculous?

You would feel more comfortable running to lean or to much timing for the boost or extra heat your creating .....Tuning is for your engines safety!

2012 and 2013 are examples of what the future holds.......14 and 15 will be unbelieveably tough :(

tnspd · 06-25-2012, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADM PERFORMANCE

Why is it ridiculous?

You would feel more comfortable running to lean or to much timing for the boost or extra heat your creating .....Tuning is for your engines safety!

2012 and 2013 are examples of what the future holds.......14 and 15 will be unbelieveably tough :(

I understand it is for the safety of the engine and I have no problems with tunes from the right shop but you would think that putting on a cold air, the cars system would learn it and adjust accordingly without needing a tune. JMHO.

DangerZL1 · 06-25-2012, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tnspd

I understand it is for the safety of the engine and I have no problems with tunes from the right shop but you would think that putting on a cold air, the cars system would learn it and adjust accordingly without needing a tune. JMHO.

It would be great if the ECM could adjust the paramaters, but the OEM tune it is designed to only operate in a specific window. I've seen graphs where a CAI picked up 40+ RWTQ. I think we'd be asking too much to have the ECM handle the scaling automatically.

Mr.R · 06-25-2012, 11:51 AM

One would think the ECM would have a tolerance of +/- 5% so that's about 20-25 RWHP

RoketRdr · 06-25-2012, 01:55 PM

Tolerance? A sensor value is what it is. The ECM can't magically create it's own values for a given input and ignore what it truly reads. Not legally anyway. If I push a #3 on a calculator I expect to get a 3 on the display and not whatever the processor decides to give me. The EPA will never allow manufacturers to do this or else emissions standards wouldn't mean a thing and there would be no need for computer controlled engine management systems nor would any car meet modern fuel mileage standards. Not being a jerk guys but you really should invest some time in EFI 101 and learn what each sensor is, the value scale and type of signal it transmits and what the software in the ECM does with the information. You'll have a whole new outlook on what these tuners actually do and the amount of time they invest in providing the products that produce more power safely and still allow you to LEGALLY pass annual inspection. Not to mention its far more fun to actually know how your car works and what's going on with your modern computer controlled hotrod.

thespymaster · 06-25-2012, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADM PERFORMANCE

2012 and 2013 are examples of what the future holds.......14 and 15 will be unbelieveably tough :(

You can bet in the 14 MY + , the might be locked out from re-programing!

Of course the aftermarket industry will have a fix for it!

8cd03gro · 06-25-2012, 05:02 PM

Weight reduction doesn't require a tune

But really, especially with forced induction engines, AFR's can be very touchy. You can typically get away with some exhaust stuff, but power is going to come from either making the engine more efficient by freeing up more flow hot or cold, increasing boost, or cooling the intake charge. Any of these are going to require a tune to take full advantage of. If you don't want to void your warranty with a tune, just work on taking advantage of the power you have. Lighter wheels may be a good option.

PQ · 06-25-2012, 05:12 PM

Pulley down might not require a tune?

I don't know how much boost is being created stock. But the computer should be able to handle the fuel and air adjustments as long as the boost is safe and injectors can keep up.

I'm guessing here. maybe somebody can clarify?

RoketRdr · 06-25-2012, 06:35 PM

Stock boost is 9psi and the limit is 12psi with the secondary boost control. Once it see's higher boost than that it will open the by-pass and bleed off the excess boost. If you run a pulley to get higher than 12psi you must have a tune or it will just keep bleeding off the pressure. You also have to pull the vacuum line off the "P" valve and cap it so you can make over 12psi without it bleeding. But even running boost below 12psi it would be best to let a tuner write a tune to optimize the additional air volume because it affects the fuel tables. But yes...the ECM with a proper tune can handle the AF adjustments fine. Its the fuel system that will become a problem once high horsepower levels are reached. Some tuners have already figured out those limits and developed packages to handle the issues.

2012ZL1 · 06-25-2012, 11:07 PM

Where is the bypass? I'll just unhook it now and save time.

*radz28* · 06-26-2012, 09:22 AM

I understand there is a tool Lingenfelter makes in order to unlock the factory limit. I read it in GMHTP I think. I think that was ADM's 'V pulley, intake, tuning article.

If you go to a reputable shop, like one of our Sponsors, you'll be just fine. You get what you pay for, though. I definately wouldn't go anywhere that doesn't do a lot of tuning on your specific car.

06-24-2012, 03:48 PM	#1
tnspd Drives: 18 Camaro ZL1 1LE (WILSON) Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: N.C. Posts: 1,340	Any ZL1 mods for HP that do not need a Tune So from what I have been reading are there any ZL1 mods to gain some HP that do not need a Tune. This is rediculous! Everyone I read says you need a tune....... __________________ Camaro South Hot Cars and Hospitality on FB camarosouth@hotmail.com Last edited by tnspd; 06-24-2012 at 04:06 PM.

06-25-2012, 05:12 PM	#11
PQ Booooosted. Drives: 2010 Supercharged SS Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Mobile, AL Posts: 36,716 View My Garage	Pulley down might not require a tune? I don't know how much boost is being created stock. But the computer should be able to handle the fuel and air adjustments as long as the boost is safe and injectors can keep up. I'm guessing here. maybe somebody can clarify? __________________

06-25-2012, 11:07 PM	#13
2012ZL1 CaRaHoLiC Drives: '12 ZL1,67 Cam,68 Biscayne 427 4 sp Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 1,701	Where is the bypass? I'll just unhook it now and save time. __________________ 2012 ZL1 2.55 upper, 10" lower pullies, Innovators west billet hub and sfi balancer, solid blower drive isolator, 50 mm idler kit, full length S/S headers no cats, comp cams custom grind cam, comp roller rocker trunion kit, comp push rods,dual valve springs retainers and locks, Injector dynamics ID850 inectors, Rotofab ZL1 cold air kit, Lingenfelter 160 thermostat, Rotofab intercooler reservoir, stock plugs, LS7 90mm throttle body, GTO clutch reservoir mod, my own custom catch can, Tuning by Jannetty, install by me.

06-26-2012, 09:22 AM	#14
radz28 Petro-sexual Drives: Ultra-Grin Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Crazy Coast Posts: 15,188 View My Garage	I understand there is a tool Lingenfelter makes in order to unlock the factory limit. I read it in GMHTP I think. I think that was ADM's 'V pulley, intake, tuning article. If you go to a reputable shop, like one of our Sponsors, you'll be just fine. You get what you pay for, though. I definately wouldn't go anywhere that doesn't do a lot of tuning on your specific car. __________________ '20 ZL1 Black "Fury" A10, PDR, Exposed CF Extractor Magnuson Magnum DI TVS2650R // RFBG // Soler 103 // TooHighPSI Port Injection // THPSI Billet Lid // FF // Katech Drop-In // PLM Heat Exchanger // ZLE Cradle bushings // BMR Chassis-Suspension Stuff // aFe Bars // Diode Dynamics LEDs // ACS Composites Guards // CF Dash // Aeroforce // tint // other stuffs

06-24-2012, 03:51 PM	#2
DangerZL1 Drives: 2023 Black ZL1 Auto Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: FEMA Region 4 Posts: 2,935	There's LPE's CAI that says no tune is required, but the HP numbers haven't been published for it.

06-24-2012, 09:52 PM	#3
Mr.R Drives: ZL1, Genesis, Grand Cherokee Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Cleveland Posts: 232	I put just a K&N filter in and made a small difference. I'm waiting for the CAI with no tune. Lingenfelter said +20hp over the phone but I want to see the results before I pay $600 for it.

06-25-2012, 11:51 AM	#7
Mr.R Drives: ZL1, Genesis, Grand Cherokee Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Cleveland Posts: 232	One would think the ECM would have a tolerance of +/- 5% so that's about 20-25 RWHP

06-25-2012, 01:55 PM	#8
RoketRdr Drives: 2010 Duramax; 2012 CTS-V Coupe Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Houston, Tx Posts: 387	Tolerance? A sensor value is what it is. The ECM can't magically create it's own values for a given input and ignore what it truly reads. Not legally anyway. If I push a #3 on a calculator I expect to get a 3 on the display and not whatever the processor decides to give me. The EPA will never allow manufacturers to do this or else emissions standards wouldn't mean a thing and there would be no need for computer controlled engine management systems nor would any car meet modern fuel mileage standards. Not being a jerk guys but you really should invest some time in EFI 101 and learn what each sensor is, the value scale and type of signal it transmits and what the software in the ECM does with the information. You'll have a whole new outlook on what these tuners actually do and the amount of time they invest in providing the products that produce more power safely and still allow you to LEGALLY pass annual inspection. Not to mention its far more fun to actually know how your car works and what's going on with your modern computer controlled hotrod.

06-25-2012, 05:02 PM	#10
8cd03gro Drives: 2005 STi corn fed Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,997	Weight reduction doesn't require a tune But really, especially with forced induction engines, AFR's can be very touchy. You can typically get away with some exhaust stuff, but power is going to come from either making the engine more efficient by freeing up more flow hot or cold, increasing boost, or cooling the intake charge. Any of these are going to require a tune to take full advantage of. If you don't want to void your warranty with a tune, just work on taking advantage of the power you have. Lighter wheels may be a good option.

06-25-2012, 06:35 PM	#12
RoketRdr Drives: 2010 Duramax; 2012 CTS-V Coupe Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Houston, Tx Posts: 387	Stock boost is 9psi and the limit is 12psi with the secondary boost control. Once it see's higher boost than that it will open the by-pass and bleed off the excess boost. If you run a pulley to get higher than 12psi you must have a tune or it will just keep bleeding off the pressure. You also have to pull the vacuum line off the "P" valve and cap it so you can make over 12psi without it bleeding. But even running boost below 12psi it would be best to let a tuner write a tune to optimize the additional air volume because it affects the fuel tables. But yes...the ECM with a proper tune can handle the AF adjustments fine. Its the fuel system that will become a problem once high horsepower levels are reached. Some tuners have already figured out those limits and developed packages to handle the issues.