Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums -
JDP Motorsports
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - > General Camaro Forums > Member Car Journals

Thread Tools
Old 08-19-2012, 09:24 PM   #477
VIR Specialist

JusticePete's Avatar
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,242
I had a great steak for dinner.
JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2012, 09:31 PM   #478
Boosted Moderator
SSE 4 2SS's Avatar
Drives: Bone Stock LS3
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Kyle Tx
Posts: 14,691
Send a message via AIM to SSE 4 2SS Send a message via Yahoo to SSE 4 2SS
Originally Posted by armysig

Originally Posted by mlee

I don't care what it is... I can already see it's outstanding... WoW....

are there some Scalops in there?

Nope! But dang that gives me an idea. Oh and I'm moving to San Antonio in Sept and the wife and kids in Oct.

Posted from App for Android
If the car feels like it is on rails, you are probably driving too slow. -Ross Bentley

Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall.
Torque is how far you take the wall with you.

“If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.” Mario Andretti

If you can turn, you ain't going fast enough...
SSE 4 2SS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2012, 11:09 PM   #479
mlee's Avatar
Drives: 2018 Silverado
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Conroe, TX
Posts: 32,199
Originally Posted by 2010ABM View Post
Dude! Hit me up when you get here...we have an amazing group of people here. Can't wait to meet you!
This is true and Armysig will fit right in...

Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
I had a great steak for dinner.
mmmmmmmm... I'm ready for a steak about now..

Originally Posted by SSE 4 2SS View Post
Yes Sir... a great addition to the Texas crew...
mlee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2012, 12:06 PM   #480

ShnOmac's Avatar
Drives: 2006 Silverado SS, 2009 G8 GT
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: PNW
Posts: 13,288
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
I had a great steak for dinner.
Soooooo what was in the picture?
ShnOmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2012, 12:12 PM   #481
mlee's Avatar
Drives: 2018 Silverado
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Conroe, TX
Posts: 32,199
Originally Posted by ShnOmac View Post
Soooooo what was in the picture?
A new Pedders easy listening CD
mlee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2012, 12:15 PM   #482
Dangeruss's Avatar
Drives: Camaro LSX
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Spring, TX
Posts: 4,482
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
I had a great steak for dinner.
Originally Posted by mlee View Post
mmmmmmmm... I'm ready for a steak about now...
Attached Images
Dangeruss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2012, 12:20 PM   #483
Just Because!
Redemption's Avatar
Drives: 2010 SIM 2SSRS
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Jose, Ca
Posts: 6,909
Originally Posted by mlee View Post
A new Pedders easy listening CD
"If the brakes aren't squealing, they ain't working?"

Their #1 hit, top of the charts from zero to 100 and back to zero....for 20 laps or more.
Redemption is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2012, 10:25 PM   #484
VIR Specialist

JusticePete's Avatar
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,242
Thank You.

Last edited by JusticePete; 09-15-2012 at 11:56 PM.
JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2012, 10:25 PM   #485
VIR Specialist

JusticePete's Avatar
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,242
The BOOK: The 2010 5th Gen Camaro Explained

To give you better access to the Pedders knowledge base we assembled it hear in book version by chapter. It isn't finished. It will be years before it is finished. It will be updated as we move forward.

Pedders 2010 Chevrolet Camaro Suspension Evaluation

Foundational 5th Gen Required Upgrades

Lowering Coils and Coilovers

Trouble Free, OEM Quiet V6 Lowering

Sway Bars

Suspension Bushes

ZL1 / CTS-V Brake Upgrade for the SS

Wheels and Tires

Bush Timing, Alignment and Torque Specs

Pedders USA Camaro 2.0

Lingenfelter L/28 Tech

5th Gen Wheel Hop and Drag Race Setup

Thermal Management

Running Changes Made to the 5th Gen by Chevrolet

Public Track Test #1

Public Track Test #2 Camaro vs. Mustang Supercar Shootout

2013 Strut Mounts, Pedders Coilover Pre-Compression and Ride Height Settings

Caution: Test driving any Pedderised vehicle can be dangerous. Pedderised vehicles have been known to induce suspension envy and sleepless nights filled with longing. Before test-driving any Pedderised vehicle, check with your banking and accounting professionals. Pedderised vehicles are known to induce credit card bills and reduced bank balances. There is no antidote. Only genuine Pedders can cure Suspension Envy.

Last edited by JusticePete; 05-07-2013 at 10:12 PM.
JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2012, 10:27 PM   #486
VIR Specialist

JusticePete's Avatar
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,242
Justice Pete's 2010 Chevrolet Camaro Suspension Evaluation

JPSS 2010 Chevrolet Camaro Suspension Evaluation
GM's Global Rear Wheel Drive (GRWD) platform was designed by their wholly owned subsidiary Holden in Australia. The first production release of ZETA is found in the Holden built Commodore. It was followed by the Holden built Pontiac G8. Chevrolet worked diligently with Holden on the revisions made to ZETA to create ZETA II for the Camaro. The changes are subtle, but significant. ZETA II is a more robust platform that has been designed to handle the higher loads created by higher RWHP, larger wheels and tires, bigger stronger brakes and in general the demands of a true sports car. Some ZETA components are interchangeable, most are not. JPSS has had the benefit of working on ZETA in Australia and then working on the GS Camaro that will run in the Grand AM Challenge originally designed by GM and now built by Riley Tech. Chevrolet has refined the ZETA chassis to create the best Camaro ever built with the chassis designated ZETA II. We took delivery of our Camaro from Berger Chevrolet in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Berger was a leader in COPO Camaros Back in the Day and is still deeply involved in the Camaro Performance Community.

JPSS is fortunate to have worked with Nickey Chicago, Fessler Moss, Hennessey and Lingenfelter Performance Engineering early on in the refinement of our Camaro parts range while we waited on delivery of our own Camaro. Our first Camaro R & D project was a Victory Red Six. Nickey Chicago did track testing very early on at the Autobahn in Joliet, Illinois.

The JPSS Camaro is used as a rolling test bed and pushed to the extreme limits of operation by some of the best drivers and engineers in North America. Using a ProCharger to produce 530 RWHP available we have sufficient power to push our suspension components to the limit . Cadillac CTS-V 6 pot front brakes are an improvement to the already excellent Brembo SS package. Forgeline 19 x10.5 wheels with titanium hardware reduce unsprung weight, even with the much wider Bridgestone RE-11 305/30/19s all around. Add to this JPSS Suspension and we are doing things with our street driven Camaro that many would consider impossible. While we abuse this gorgeous vehicle to improve our bits and range we show it frequently. We are just like all the other Camaro owners. We love our Camaro and like to show it off.

Our impressions of the Camaro after several thousand miles of bone stock use are that the Camaro is well built, very well built. We have in our fleet a GTO and a G8. The GTO is a solid automobile, even with more than 40 thousand hard development miles. Every 4th Gen owner that has been in it was impressed by the level of quality, refinement and noticeable absence of rattle or squeaks. The G8 is more solid than the GTO with a vastly improved ZETA suspension and with almost 30 thousand miles of development abuse is still rattle and squeak free. We love our GTO and the G8 is one of the most dialed in vehicles we have ever driven -- fully built and ProCharged. The 2010 Camaro is another level up from the G8 in terms of structural integrity. It is one solid vehicle. Run over the biggest bump and the entire vehicle travels the bump as a single unit. We have yet to detect any racking or cowl shake with 10 thousand miles of combined track and street abuse.

Indianapolis 500 Pace Car complete with JPSS Pace Car Package
The OEM Camaro cruises well and after hours of driving you feel fresh and ready for more. However, going back to our G8, the Camaro suffered by comparison. This is not a comparison to a stock G8, but to Justice Pete’s fully built G8. While the comparison is not fair, it is what we demand of our vehicles and what we are accustomed to -- precision in our daily driving experience with almost OEM comfort. The JPSS , LLC G8 rides well and handles as well – we struggle to find an appropriate description as it is so good -- yet our G8 is still street friendly and comfortable. JPSS does not build race car suspensions. We build suspensions for the enthusiast driver that would like their Camaro to handle like a race car AND ride like the OEM suspension. Anyone can build a rock hard suspension that handles well on the track. The trick is to come close to a track prepared vehicle in handling with an almost OEM ride quality. Delivering that driving experience is JPSS specialty.
GM’s ZETA chassis is so good stock and so GREAT built by Justice Pete, it blew by a BMW M5 at the New Jersey Motorsports Park. The professional drivers said there was no comparison because the JPSS G8 was so superior to the BMW M5. A stock Camaro doesn't feel that way. A Justice Pete Camaro can and ours does. To be clear stock is VERY GOOD.

These were not specially prepared track vehicles, they were daily drivers. Justice Pete’s G8 was driven with the family from Michigan to New Jersey and driven back again. They perform like race cars, but are as civil as OEM. Any company can make a rock hard track suspension. JPSS delivers track ready handling while retaining most of the comfort you expect in a luxury performance automobile. Look at what Paul Tracy can do with the Justice Pete’s 5th Gen Camaro.

The 5th Gen is unlike any previous Camaro. The 5th Gen Camaro is an impressive automobile that is at home on a suburban street or the Nürburgring in OE trim. In JPSS form, a 5th Gen Camaro runs faster lap times than a full race Cadillac CTS-V on the same track with the same driver, John Buttermore SCCA T1 Champion in a C6 Corvette. For those that do not fully appreciate the significance of this statement you should know that the Fastest Production Sedan to ever run the Nürburgring is a Cadillac CTS-V. A full race version, caged, lightened, Penske Racing Suspension and full slicks is faster yet. The JPSS street driven Camaro on street tires driven by the John Buttermore out performs the race version of the CTS-V.

Jon Buttermore at Gingrman in the Camaro
Make no mistake, a Camaro off the showroom floor needs no modifications to be a great automobile and it is. If you would like your Camaro to be more capable, then the pages that follow are written for you. The Camaro is quiet. It is almost library quiet. They paid attention to detail and maybe borrowed an engineer from the Buick area in controlling cabin noise. If there is any wind noise, I can't hear it. There are no squeaks or rattles. The cabin feels as secure and quiet as anything I have ever driven. This is probably related to the structural strength that was designed into the ZETA II chassis.
As for driving, keep in mind we are very spoiled guys with some great cars in the fleet. The G8 and GTO are both ProCharged. They both ride on full upgraded suspensions and then some. They both have custom wheel and tire packages. They both have brake upgrades. They are built cars that have been carefully dialed in. The slug in the garage has been the HHR SS with a Stage II GM Turbo and JPSS and it can pull up the inside rear wheel on a hard turn with GM issue wheels and tires. These cars have our benchmarks for performance set quite high. The OEM Camaro is a super car and one that thousands will be thrilled to own -- but out of the box in OEM trim does not measure up to the rest of our fleet. What follows are our opinions personally and professionally. They do not make us right. They do not make us wrong. These opinions make us JPSS.
Is your 5th Gen structurally sound? Take a close look at these crash test videos.

Watch the engine move while the front sub-frame remains almost stationary at 14 Seconds
The front sub-frame mounts with six bolts and two locating pins. There are no rubber bushes. The front sub-frame connects well forward and well behind the front ‘axle’ for strength and stability. As you could see in the frontal impact video the engine was moving backwards from the impact (at roughly 14 seconds), but the front sub-frame remained well located. When GM designed the Camaro they built it well, very well. It was engineered to have an exceptionally strong
monocoque. A solid monocoque translates into a higher perception of quality while enhancing performance and function. In the following series of pictures you can see how the 5th Gen Camaro has numerous 'chassis braces' built in at the factory using state-of the art design in the form of shape, construction and materials --
High-strength low-alloy (HSLA) steel is a type of alloy steel that provides better mechanical properties or greater resistance to corrosion than carbon steel. HSLA steels vary from other steels in that they aren't made to meet a specific chemical composition, but rather to specific mechanical properties. They have a carbon content between 0.05–0.25% to retain formability and weldability. Other alloying elements include up to 2.0% manganese and small quantities of copper, nickel, niobium, nitrogen, vanadium, chromium, molybdenum, titanium, calcium, rare earth elements, or zirconium.[1][2] Copper, titanium, vanadium, and niobium are added for strengthening purposes.[2] These elements are intended to alter the microstructure of carbon steels, which is usually a ferrite-pearlite aggregate, to produce a very fine dispersion of alloy carbides in an almost pure ferrite matrix. This eliminates the toughness-reducing effect of a pearlitic volume fraction, yet maintains and increases the material's strength by refining the grain size, which in the case of ferrite increases yield strength by 50% for every halving of the mean grain diameter. Precipitation strengthening plays a minor role, too. Their yield strengths can be anywhere between 250–590 megapascals (36,000–86,000 psi). Due to their higher strength and toughness HSLA steels usually require 25 to 30% more power to form, as compared to carbon steels
Martensitic Ultra High Strength Steel Maraging steels (a portmanteau of martensitic and aging) are iron alloys which are known for possessing superior strength and toughness without losing malleability, although they cannot hold a good cutting edge. 'Aging' refers to the extended heat-treatment process. These steels are a special class of low-carbon ultra-high-strength steels which derive their strength not from carbon, but from precipitation of inter-metallic compounds. The principal alloying element is 15 to 25% nickel.[1] Secondary alloying elements are added to produce intermetallic precipitates, which include cobalt, molybdenum, and titanium.
Photos originally posted 11.11.2008 by aston70

Do you need a strut tower bar? Many assume they do. The brace was and is necessary when the roof is cut off. That is why TEAM Camaro designed and install the brace installing the Vert. The brace installed on the ZL1 indirectly for NVH. The STB cleaned up some 'noise' on the sensors used to fine tune the MRC. The STB looks cool so it is part of the 1LE package.
It would deny the obvious to say the OE STB does nothing. It does add structure to an already robust monocoque. There is zero data available that documents any gain in handling or lap times. None.

Stress Tester
Simons has discovered slipping suspension-member attachments and steering linkages sending false signals to the driver. Once, a race car’s control arm collapsed when subjected to normal cornering loads. His K&C machine has helped teams determine why one race car responds quickly to setup adjustments even as its identically constructed stablemate is a cranky handful. Simons adds that he’s never seen an aftermarket strut-tower brace provide a measurable handling benefit.

When you are considering the modifications you choose to make to your Camaro, we strongly suggest you take a holistic approach and discuss the entire range of modifications with your JPSS Suspension Specialist. They can guide you through the selection process to make certain that each modification compliments all the others to create the best possible custom Camaro for your personal use at the most reasonable cost. Do it right. Do it once.

Last edited by JusticePete; 11-19-2015 at 09:14 AM.
JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2012, 10:29 PM   #487
VIR Specialist

JusticePete's Avatar
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,242
Foundational 5th Gen Required Upgrades

Foundational 5th Gen Required Upgrades

There is a noticeable rear end step out in turns while applying power or brakes and dealing with bumps in the 5th Gen. This is due to the voids in the OEM Sub-frame bushes. It is not unique to the Camaro. It is typical of IRS systems installed with rubber bushes to isolate the passenger area from road noise. Sub-frame bushes are a foundational component of the IRS and the most important modification that can be made to a 5th Gen. If you add more power it will place more load on the sub-frame bushes and amplify rear end step out / rear end steer. Lower the Camaro's CG with lowering coils and rear end step will be more pronounced. The larger and stickier your rear tires the more pronounced the sub-frame movement becomes. If you set your fence posts in Jello the finished fence will wiggle like Jello. Your OE sub-frame bushes are nothing like Jello, but they are not as stable as an enthusiast would like as the foundation for 5th Gen performance.

When your 5th Gen is on an alignment rack, the technician adjusts Caster, Camber and Toe to within a 10th or 100th of a degree. The OEM sub-frame bushes allow a much larger range in dynamic alignment angles. These changes in dynamic alignment account for the loose rear end, rear end step out or rear end steer. Filling the voids in the OEM sub-frame bushes reduces the range of dynamic alignment and loose rear end, rear end steer, and rear end step out go away. The rear sub-frame complete with IRS uses four bolts to attach to the monocoque. There is a locating tapered pilot that passes through the larger rear sub-frame bush and positions the sub-frame to the monocoque. The larger sub-frame bush has a ferule that fits over the Locating Post. This not only centers the sub-frame, but anchors it much as a weld would to the monocoque. The movement in the rear sub-frame is relative to the voids in the OEM rubber bushes. If the voids are filled with urethane inserts or the OE bushes replaced with higher durometer full urethane, movement of the rear sub-frame is virtually eliminated.

Rear Sub-Frame Rear Bush / Bolt / Locating Post

Rear Sub-Frame Forward Bush / Bolt Area

The ZETA II Camaro features much larger sub-frame bushes than the ZETA I G8. These were improved to handle the higher loads created by larger wheels and tires with the high RWHP found in the Camaro. While they are an improvement, we do not feel they are stable enough for the way we drive a Camaro so we designed three solutions.

Pedders EP1200 Sub-Frame Inserts are good up to 550 RWHP. The inserts fill the OEM voids in the rubber sub-frame bushes from both the top and bottom. The control surfaces are dramatically increased. Since the OEM bushes remain in place, this is more than just a great upgrade. It is relatively easy to install the EP1200. These eight pieces transform your Camaro and are probably the single biggest bang for the buck modification you can make.

When Chevrolet introduced the Convertible they also made a change to the sub-frame bushes to address rear-end-step-out. If your Camaro was built in 2011 chances are it has the revised sub-frame bushes. The revised OE bushes have a bit more rubber in them and less NVH void space. They are an improvement over the earlier versions, but we at Pedders still feel they could be better and advise the 5th Gen owner to start with the foundation, to start with the sub-frame bush inserts or full bushes. On the left are the voids in the FE3 sub-frame bush. On the right you can see that the small voids have been filled, but there is a lot of empty space to be filled.

While Chevrolet engineering has improved the original 5th Gen sub-frame bush design starting with the first convertible, the smaller forward sub-frame bush in the FE3, FE4, FE5 and FE6 all have voided space and only the pencil wide shoulder of the bush for control. On the ZL1 the smaller front bush was made of a harder denser rubber to improve control. They still left a lot of 'room' for improvement. Pedders EP1200 sub-frame bush inserts fill the room, the empty space and dramatically increase the the upper and lower control surfaces in the front, small OE sub-frame area.

The rear sub-frame OE bushes had the voids filled starting with the Vert as well. The rear sub-frame bush is the same in the FE4, FE5 and FE6 5th Gens. Look at the control surfaces and you make the decision. Which will offer more control?

OE Sub-Frame Bush

Pedderised with EP1200 Sub-Frame Inserts

The best part of this foundational upgrade is that they is absolutely no change in ride quality. NONE. What you do gain is stability in the IRS. Your Pedderised IRS is more stable and more predictable.

Pedders EP1200 inserts will require a trim to fit in the revised sub-frame bushes. In this photo you see the fingers on the inserts that fill very thin voids in 5th Gens built prior to late March.

To fit a Pedders EP1200 Insert Kit on a 5th Gen (some 11s, all 12s and 13s) with the revised bushes, use a pair of scissors to trim the very thin fingers off the inserts. In this photo, we have covered the fingers with white paper. As you can see, what remains 96% of the urethane material by weight to fill the voids that remain in the revised OE bushes.

With the increased grip of the ZL1 specifically compounded tires and the increase in power with the LSA the ZL1 and the denser front sub-frame bush we find the inserts to be a perfect match and suitable for use to 650 RWHP. Btw, I wonder where GM got the idea to fill in at least part of the void in the sub-frame bushes

For those taking all Camaros, with the exception of the ZL1, beyond 550 RWHP, drag racers and hard core corner lovers the Pedders EP1201 full urethane Sub-Frame Bushes. With these robust bushes installed and well over 550 RWHP your Camaro will launch cleanly and track true under load. In these photos you can almost feel the improvement in performance. The OEM ferules are designed for ease of assembly on an assembly line. The OEM ferule has 3/4" holes for a 14mm bolt. Those loose fitting for ease of assembly OEM ferules are replaced with Pedders and holes suited to the 14mm bolts used to more securely attach the sub-frame to the monocoque. This change means there is no possible movement in the assembly under any load that doesn't bend or shear a sub-frame bolt. The increase in control surface is nothing short of MASSIVE. Your rear sub-frame will now follow your Camaro and not attempt to steer your Camaro. Switch backs are tamed. Drag launches are harder and crisper with a more efficient transfer of power.

For ultimate in IRS control Pedders has developed the EP1201HD. Racers use Delrin bushes machined from stock. These are hard plastic suitable ONLY to a race car. They place too much load on the small welds throughout the sub-frame. Aluminum bushes are no different. Delrin and Aluminum are great in a race car where the welds are checked after every race weekend and the entire car is seam welded. In a street driven automobile there has to be some forgiveness in the sub-frame bush material to protect the useful life of the sub-frame and monocoque. Pedders EP1201HD is a urethane of high dura that when captured by the Camaro sheet metal performs like Delrin or aluminum right up to the point of accidental impact when there is just enough forgiveness to protect the key components. These bushes do transmit more road noise than the EP1200 inserts or the EP1201 full bushes. In the Pedders USA, LLC Camaro we barely notice a difference because the aggressive tires we run. The EP1201HD is not a typical Pedders bit. It is designed for ONLY the most dedicated enthusiasts. In the video, you will see that there is NO visible sub-frame movement, even with a 3 2 downshift with wide open throttle.

While the Pedders bushes appear to be larger in height than the OEM bushes. That is an illusion. The Pedders bushes are designed to fill the space between the sub-frame and the monocoque just like the OEM bush with no change in the size of the gap. On the lower portion, the Pedders bushes fill the metal OEM plates. There is a pre-load on the bushes, but no change in the installed height. We wanted achieve both control and long term durability of the sub-frame and monocoque goals with minimal change in OEM NVH and no change in ride quality and that is what the EP1200, EP1201 and EP1201HD deliver.

We used a prototype tool to remove the sub-frame bushes on the car. A plastic piece of 5" PVC pipe. Gorilla tape on the outside just in case. An old bearing plate for the bottom with another round steel disc from the assortment we use at the hydraulic press. A 14mm Acmes threaded rod with nuts and washers completed the 'tool'. A strong rattle gun (Aussie slang for Impact Gun) applied pressure along with a little heat to separate the paint from the FRP jackets and the bushes were out in minutes..

A quick look at the increased control surface data illustrates the benefits of Pedders inserts and bushes for the 5th Gen. In addition to the increased stability of the the IRS the larger control surface spreads the increased load over a larger area to preserver the integrity of your sub-frame.

All bushings are not created equal.

User / Owner Video


Putnam Park Danny Popp driving the Pedderised L/28.

What does all this mean to a 5th Gen Camaro owner in terms of suspension performance?

Pedders Camaro Running Race Car Speeds on Track

It means YOU own a bad XXX automobile. It means you own more car than you probably thought you had purchased. It means your Camaro will remain tight and solid for many years and thousands of miles. It means your Camaro will respond exceptionally well to suspension modifications because it is such a robust and stable platform. It means you can drive your 5th gen with confidence knowing that it is built by Chevrolet to exceed your expectations. It means your suspension will work as designed when driven to the aggressively on track or down your city's streets.

The 5th Gen Camaro off the showroom floor is a very good driving experience. You will notice that the ride is supple over bumps. This is due to the advanced design of the ZETA II chassis along with the very large wheel and tire package. There is substantial lean and roll, yet the 5th Gen sticks in turns. The steering is a bit softer than we would like. The SS Brembo brakes are very good, but the pedal feel not as sharp as we would like. Drive past 7/10ths, you'll find the IRS has too much movement. The range of dynamic alignment changes allows rear end step out, rear wheel steer, a loose feeling in the rear. It undermines driver confidence. Having said this, a bone stock 5th Gen Camaro blistered the Nurburing. On a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being a perfect car, we rate the 5th Gen SS a 6.5. The SS 1LE is a 7.5. The ZL1 is an amazing 8.5 of the showroom floor.

Track Time
Nordschleife 7:41.27
Inde Motorsports 1:41.29
Ranch Config. 4 1:41.29
Laguna Seca 1:39.18
GingerMan 1:42.05
Grattan 1:27.95

As good as the ZL1 times are, and they are very good times, no street legal Camaro has matched the Camaro's Gingerman lap time.

Pedderised NASCAR Pace Car

How could it be better? If the 5th Gen SS were not built to a market price-point it would be close to a 10 off the showroom floor. Price-points are critical to sales so that is not the case. One straight forward example is Urethane. Urethane is far more expensive than rubber. The low hanging fruit for the Camaro owner is in urethane inserts for the radius and sub-frame bushes. Installing EP1200 inserts EP1201 Full Replacement Bushes or Pedders EP1201HD tack bushes settles down the IRS virtually eliminating unwanted rear end steer, rear end step out and the feeling of a loose rear end. These inserts work with the OE parts to make your driving experience more confident. The most any driver can hope for is their race car is stable and predictable. Addressing the sub-frame bushes and the associated rear end step out created by a wide dynamic range of alignment angle changes increases the stability and predictability of the 5th Gen Camaro. This isn't an optional up-grade. This is your first foundational 5th Gen upgrade and the building block for all future upgrades.

GM redesigned the radius arm on the ZETA II Camaro. It uses a large hydraulically damped bush on one end and a ball joint on the other. The arm is more linear to deliver improved steering feel. Drivers that are tuned into their Camaro will notice slight softness in steering feel, the brake pedal and perhaps describe it as isolated or vague. Pedders started early on with the Camaro GS Prototype built at the Milford Proving Grounds and worked on a full urethane radius / brake tension rod bush. This was a very special project with GM – the 2010 Camaro GS Race Car Concept shown at SEMA 2010. This video walks you through the OE and Pedders bushes with Jason Debler from

Replacing the hydraulically damped OEM radius rod bushes will help with steering and pedal feel. While the NVH properties are excellent, they are too soft for performance driving in our opinion. Pedders offers three solutions for this. The first option is a direct replacement street-friendly urethane insert for the OEM rubber bit. The firmer urethane insert removes some of the compliance in the bush improving brake pedal and steering feel. The back-story on this bush is it is a GM designed part. One of the GS engineers wanted to test it for use in in sanctioned racing. We made twenty sets for him. Unfortunately that project was shut down during the GM adjustment period. The samples were sent back to along with permission to take them to market. Using an EP6578 is as simple as removing two bolts, removing the soft OEM rubber insert, installing the Pedders urethane and bolting it back together. You may wonder if such a small part can make a difference in such a large automobile. You will be pleasantly surprised on their first test drive.

The full urethane bush replacement is Pedders EP6577 Camaro Urethane Steel Jacketed Radius Rod Bush. This is one robust bush with holes and voids designed to make our street friendly urethane mimic the NVH characteristics of the OEM bush with the performance of a urethane bush. If you track your car, the EP6577 will be the most durable solution. The inserts work to reduce motion, but the basic issue of the OEM bush remains -- it is hydraulically damped and can potentially fail on track. Pedders EP6577 is virtually indestructible on or off the track.

The third is an EP6579 full face Camaro Front Extreme Radius Rod Bush Insert replacing the soft OEM rubber insert with a very high durometer piece. It was designed as an alternative to the EP6578 for the GS Camaro project. The combination of bonded rubber ferrule steel jacketed bush with a full face high durometer urethane insert is outstanding. This solution is extremely firm and may lead to premature wear in the tie rod ends or the steering rack. This is the solution we have installed on the Pedders USA Camaro because we prefer the extra control. We have clients with over 100,000 miles driven with the EP6579 and no signs of premature wear. Because we are Pedders we error on the side of caution, but in this case it appears we will be lifting the cautionary wording soon. This is a hardcore option for the most demanding driver and my choice for my 5th Gen.

These two short videos show you how to install the inserts. It is so easy, even a caveman could do it.

Removing the OEM Rubber Snubber

Installing the EP6579 Full Face Urethane Insert

All three Pedders radius / brake tension arm solution accomplish the same goal in a different way. They reduce the range of caster change while driving. The direct result is a more on center feel to the steering. Combine that with a Pedders Tight Spec Alignment and you'll drive away thinking a new steering rack was installed. With the mission critical required foundational bushes in place your 5th Gen is ready to go or ready to grow.

Last edited by JusticePete; 10-03-2013 at 09:50 PM. Reason: Updated Sub-Frame Bush Data
JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2012, 10:31 PM   #488
VIR Specialist

JusticePete's Avatar
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,242
Lowering Coils and Coilovers

Lowering Coils and Coilovers

Your Camaro's Pedderised foundation is now as stable as a Chevy rock and and approaches the best in the industry in monocoque strength. Stability and predictability are significantly improved for your daily drive to work or as the foundation for the the enthusiast. Now we address ride heights, lowering coils and coilovers and damping. Lowering the Camaro with drop coils designed to work with the OE dampers and bumpstops reduces body lean and roll while maintaining good quality of ride. Using Pedders Xa 46mm coilovers would be the next level of excellence. For Pedders perfection only the 52mm Remote Reservoir Independent Bound and Rebound Adjustable Supercar Coilovers will do. All three address Center of Gravity (CG) spring rate, body lean and roll. Pedders Xa Coilovers and Supercar Coilovers address Center of Gravity (CG) spring rate, body lean, roll and damping. The Xa is a fixed ratio adjustable damper while the Supercar damping is individually adjustable for bound and rebound / Compression and rebound. The Camaro Pac Car is on Pedders Xa coilovers.

Pedderised NASCAR Pace Car

The first hard corner you take in your Camaro the most lasting impression will be just how much body lean there is. That is a direct result of the tall ride height and soft coils in SS trim. The SS delivers at 694mm front and 700mm rear measuring from the lower wheel lip, up through the wheel center and to the painted edge of the fender. Pedders Camaro lowering coils have been designed to work with your OEM dampers and the OE bumstops. The revised FE4 SS dampers particularly are very well done from the factory. When matched to a set of Pedders coils, you can expect your Camaro to ride almost like factory even though it has been lowered and handle with a more aggressive edge.

Our SportsRyder lowering coils will work on both the six and the eight with a 657mm front ride height (220032) and either 675mm (220035) or 660mm (220032) rear ride height. These are no ordinary coils. These are coils manufactured to Pedders standards of +/- 1mm. Each coil is fully scragged and height verified before it is placed in a Pedders box. Coils that do not measure up are discarded as junk, not reworked. They are shipped out as scrap metal. When you purchase a Pedders Camaro Coil Set you have purchased what some brands would call a race matched set. That is at least 20 mm too tall in our opinion for a daily driver in the hands of an enthusiast. The ZL1 and the 1LE are lower from the factory and we think that is a step in the right direction, but we still prefer the ride heights and rates delivered by Pedders Sports Ryder Coils.

All Springs are Not Created Equal

Video: Birth of a Lowering Spring: Inside Pedders Suspension
May 2, 2012 by Carter Jung

Birth of a Lowering Spring: Inside Pedders Suspension

Pedders Suspension is a brand that might be familiar to enthusiasts of the domestic aftermarket. For more than six years, Pedders has offered suspension components for Chevy Camaros, Ford Mustangs and Pontiac GTOs. What most don’t know is that the company is far from an upstart in the chassis game. Pedders Suspension has been in business in their home country of Australia for over 60 years, starting back in the mid-1950s rebuilding shock absorbers.

Headquartered in Keysborough, just outside of Melbourne in the state of Victoria, Pedders Suspension has a unique business model for their domestic market. Their products are distributed solely through franchised Pedders Suspension retailers, of which there are over 130 in Australia. Think Jiffy Lube, but for suspension needs that range from the inspection and alignment all the way to polyurethane bushings and coilover swaps.

Here in the U.S., Pedders’ business model is completely different, utilizing a more traditional distribution route. In their short time in the American market, Pedders’ products have been used by GM, Lingenfelter and Saleen. Pedders sells the gamut of chassis components, including coilovers, polyurethane bushings and CV shafts, but their core product is springs. In fact, Pedders likes to refer to their manufacturing facility as the “World’s Best Spring Plant.” While that’s up for interpretation, having witnessed the birth of a spring, firsthand, we can attest that quality is very much at the core of their values.

Here’s how Pedders Suspension springs are made:

Step 1:
Pedders’ springs begin life as steel from BlueScope Steel, an Aussie company headquartered in Melbourne. Instead of sourcing cheaper materials from China or India, Pedders insists upon using steel that is ISO accredited.

Step 2:
For heating of the metal rods, Pedders relies on gas instead of electricity. With the latter, dips and irregularity in power can cause inconsistencies in the metal. Each rod is baked close to 980 degrees C.

Step 3:
After the steel is heated up to temperature, the glowing rod is then coiled around a mandrel. The solid steel mandrel does not flex or bow with repetitive use. Pedders has more than 100 different steel mandrels in varying shapes and sizes for varying applications.

Step 4:
The next stage in the spring production is quenching, a process in which the hot coiled steel is cooled by oil. The spring is still soft at this point, lacking any memory.

Step 5:
Once the spring is cooled, it goes back into the tempering furnace where the coils are cured. Temperatures are adjusted to suit the gauge of the wire—the thicker, the hotter.

Step 6:
After another cooling phase, each spring is ground to appropriate size and fitment.

Step 7:
For the final step in strengthening the steel, each spring is shot peened with military grade shot.

Step 8:
Pedders scrags 100 percent of their springs. Scragging is a quality-control process where each spring is fully compressed, testing its load for up to 2 mm in variance.

Step 9:
Before they are boxed and shipped around the world, the springs are powder coated. Powder coating gives a spring its brand-distinctive color and protects it from the elements.

Posted with the permission of R & T

Pedders has designed three solutions for ride height. One is the fully adjustable Xa Coilover range that dominates the Camaro after market in sales.

You have seen Pedders Camaro Xa coilovers on the highest profile Camaros in North America: Jay Leno's Six, the entire GM display at SEMA 2009 and on the Camaro Pace Cars used in NASCAR and Indy racing series.

When we corner weighted the Pedders USA Camaro we were shocked as just how much attention to detail had been invested by the engineers at GM. We were able to adjust our Xa coilovers to bring the front wheels within ONE pound and the rear wheels to within 10. The cross weights were so close we kept checking the scales to make sure they were working properly. What this means to you is that your Camaro has tremendous potential and that your aftermarket coils or coilovers should be made with the same attention to detail as GM put into the development of ZETA II. Pedders understand how much you care about your Camaro. We feel the same way. It shows in our product, on the track, in your daily drive and most important of all -- how we value you as a customer.

Pedders Xa 46mm Fixed Ratio Coilover

46mm High Pressure Nitrogen Monotube Construction for incredible control. Set to position 10 the Xa coilovers are approximately matched to Pedders Gas SportsRyder valving. These are adjustable up and down the Critical Damping Scale and dial in more comfort or control.

30 Positive Position Damping Adjustment eliminates the possibility of adjustment error. It is as simple as turning the knob and clicking down to zero and then counting the clicks up. There are no soft settings, no need to estimate how many degrees the valve adjustment has been turned, no doubts that it is set right. Positive clicks each and every time.

Threaded Tube / Mount Height Adjustment delivers consistent spring rate and ride quality. The Speed Lab coilovers requires only 2mm of spring pre-load. Suspension travel remains the same regardless of the selected ride height. This is class leading technology.

OEM Matched Bracketry
so that your brake line and ABS fittings clip into place just like they did from the factory.

High Strength Steel Strut Clevis Design for Optimal Strength is a standard feature with Pedders coilovers. We know how you drive.

Advanced Alloy Motorsport Coils
are wound with Pedders precision to be within +/- 1mm of Loaded Ride Height.

Aluminium Spring Perches and Locking Rings reduced mass.

The 2010 INDY 500 and NASCAR Camaro Pace Cars run on Pedders Xa coilovers. GM designers wanted the cars to have a more menacing stance. Pedders height adjustable Xa coilovers are perfect for height adjustment as suspension travel is the same regardless of the set ride height. As always, Pedders delivers more than requested so each of these Camaro Pace Cars includes 27mm front sway bars, 27mm rear sway bars, Xa coilovers radius and sub-frame bush inserts. GM has joined the rest of us as enthusiasts and our desire to personalize our cars.

For those who want the track like performance and OEM like ride comfort and more drop than available through lowering coils Pedders 160086 eXtreme Xa Coilovers are the most popular choice in the 5th Gen community. The Xa coilover has a full range of travel when close to OEM height or fully dropped. This is functionality is the result of the unique fully threaded 46mm monotube damper body that screws into or out of the lower mounting bracket leaving the coil and suspension travel unchanged. The front coilovers use the OEM bearing and coil mount and cylindrical coil. The rear structure for the ZETA II Camaro requires a cone like coil wind to be compatible with the large four bolt upper OEM spring perch. Pedders takes great care in the design of a coilover to make certain that it is fully compatible with the OEM mountings.

To meet the needs of the enthusiast driver without camber plates, Pedders designed a 10mm wider clevis. The extra clevis width increases clearance between the sidewall and coilover. You can use this extra clearance to increase negative front camber. The Pedders Camaro clevis mounts accept the OEM brake lines and ABS wiring just like the OEM strut. Installing Pedders Xa coilovers is as easy as take off the OEM black and install the Pedders Red Xa unit.

Spring and rates and damper mapping are mission critical to the enthusiast and exceptionally well done with the R & D for the Pedders Xa Camaro application. Using 8kg coils front and 10kg coils rear the spring rates bring balance to the factory 52 / 48 weight distribution. There is a motion ratio at work in the rear of the Camaro making the spring rates almost perfectly matched. There are 30 positions to the Xa damper settings from OEM soft to R compound tire race track ready hard. The positive click adjustments are easy to make and alter the bound and rebound as well as the high and low speed circuits. Many adjustable dampers only allow the end user to change the low speed settings. For the enthusiast having the ability to alter both high and low speed operation is a huge plus.

Pedders made the decision to give the end user control over both circuits because it is what we would want on our personal vehicles. We choose to fix the bound to rebound ratio on the Xa range so that even a novice user can confidently make damper adjustments.

The difference between full soft and full hard feels as though the coils were actually changed on the vehicle. This range of damping adjustment makes the Pedders Xa Camaro coilovers well suited to a vehicle that will be driven daily and when take to the track quickly clicked into a track ready state.

Supercar 52mm Remote Reservoir Independent Bound and Rebound Coilovers

The third option is the best in class 52mm Remote Reservoir Independent Bound and Rebound Adjustable Supercar Coilovers. The shear mass of the pistons and the volume of oil work to make them silky smooth. The ability to click tune and Game On! Pedders USA, LLC is proud to offer the most advanced coilover application for the 2010 Camaro. These are the SMOOTHEST MOST CONTROLLED coilovers money can buy for 5th Gen. Pedders Supercar coilovers are 52mm monotubes. Our Xa coilovers, which are spectacular in their own right, are sized like most coilovers at 46mm. Basic fluid dynamics tells you that the larger the volume of oil, the smoother the action, control will be. Comparing a 46mm diameter disc for surface area to a 52mm disc we find there is 27% increase in surface area. Couple the 27% greater disc surface area with remote reservoirs the size of Coke or beer cans and the volume of oil is increased by more than half. Couple this HUGE amount of oil with 30 independent bound and 30 independent rebound adjustments and you have race car like control over your 5th Gen suspension. There is nothing better you can buy for your 5th Gen Camaro. Make your Camaro a true Supercar with Pedders Supercar coilovers.

Height adjustment is separate from the coil per-compression adjustment on the Supercars just as it is on the Xa coilovers. Hieght is adjusted by screwing the entire monotube into or out of the lower mount. Adjusting height this way delivers the same jounce travel, the same shock travel at OE height or slammed. Ride quality remains the same!

The shear mass of oil, the diameter of the piston assure you of silky smooth operation. The Supercar coilovers include all of the Xa features and none of the headaches normally associated with remote reservoirs. The Supercar reservoirs are mounted to the coilovers, so Pedders Supercar coilovers install with the same ease as our Xa coilovers. The adjustments are positive clicks with no guess work. Adjustment of the damping is as easy as Click, Tune -- Game On!

Last edited by JusticePete; 12-18-2012 at 12:00 PM.
JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2012, 10:32 PM   #489
VIR Specialist

JusticePete's Avatar
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,242
Trouble Free, OEM Quiet V6 Lowering

Trouble Free, OEM Quiet V6 Lowering

220032 / 220033

220032 / 220035

Today we had the pleasure of working with two Camaro5 and SATX community members. Both are V6 owners. They got The LOOK today. We can see that. The questions are:
  1. Did they get any front end coil pop or any other new noises?
  2. Are the coils secure in the perches for trouble free motoring?
  3. Did they sacrifice ride quality to get the look?
  4. The most important question of all are they pleased with the overall result?

The answers are:
  1. No
  2. Yes
  3. No
  4. Yes

Most companies market lowering coils as 1" drop. That has become the frame in which lowering coils are discussed. If we discuss drop in terms of ride height it is easy for a Camaro owner to determine what their new ride height will be. We measure ride height from the bottom of the wheel rim lip, up through the wheel center to the painted edge of the fender. The vehicle should be on a level surface, the wheels straight, 1/4 tank of fuel and as empty as it was new.

The average ride heights for a Camaro are Front 690mm Rear 700mm

220032 - Pedders 6/8 Front Lowering Coils 657mm with 20" Wheels or 1.3” Drop
220033 - Pedders 6/8 Rear Lowering Coils 660mm with 20" Wheels or 1.5” Drop
220035 - Pedders 6/8 Rear Lowering Coils 675mm with 20" Wheels or 1” Drop

Our Camaros today started with these ride heights.

LF 692mm RF 690mm
LR 706mm RR 703mm

LF 688mm RF 687mm
LR 686mm RR 683mm

They finished the day at these ride heights.

220032 / 220033
LF 664mm RF 663mm Drop 27.5mm / 1.08” Pedders Stated Height 657mm Difference 6.5mm
LR 665mm RR 664mm Drop 40mm / 1.57” Pedders Stated Height 660mm Difference 4.5mm

220032 / 220035
LF664mm RF 664mm Drop 23.5mm / .925” Pedders Stated Height 657mm Difference 7mm
LR 669mm RR 664mm Drop 18mm / .708” Pedders Stated Height 675mm Difference 8.5mm

Pedders Average Deviation Today 6.6mm
Chevrolet Average Deviation Today 5.9mm

We would have preferred to beat GM at this game, but today GM beat us. Well maybe they did.

V6 vs V8
Fuel Load

We could improve our accuracy for ride height by separating the OEM average ride height into 6 and 8 cylinder groups as well as our finished ride heights. It may well be this is more important to us than to our clients. We have been in the 5th Gen Camaro market from the beginning and have yet to get a client compliant that their finished ride height was 5mm off. We did not check the alignments before we took the cars apart. After writing this post we should have. Both cars had different fuel levels. Both cars were not empty as new. Both cars had aftermarket exhaust changing the rear weight. Both car had more than 20K.

Let's get down to business. In these two images you can see the OEM upper coil is securely trapped in place against the upper perch.

We used a strut compressor to break down the OEM strut and to Re-assemble the OEM strut with new Pedders coils.

In this series of pictures you can see that the new Pedders coil is well trapped even though the threaded strut top is NOT yet exposed.

When the threads are exposed and the nuts made tight the new Pedders lowering coils are securely trapped in place.

Stacker coils are used to make certain a coil stays in the spring seats when the suspension is at full droop. The black wrap on the coil is there to protect against coil pop or coil ping. When the weight of the car is on the wheels, the upper coils lay one on top of the other. While it is possible to balance one basketball on top of another, it requires extraordinary precision. Stacking coils is not all that different. Using a coil wrap prevents coil pop, just in case the lower spring perch, lower insulator, coil, upper insulator, upper spring perch, silver washer, spring plate bush, gold washer, threaded strut and other variables I am sure I forgot to mention are not all perfect.

These rear coils are under load from the weight of the car. You can see where they touch, but have to imagine where they touch as you drive through a parking lot or down the road.

Pedders does not use multiple stacker coils in the front Camaro struts. Let's go back to basketball stacking, a very difficult task when everything is perfectly still. How hard would it be to keep those basketballs stacked if you were moving left to right and up and down The front struts turn in the Camaro much like the basketballs creating to many opportunities for noise. Pedders front Camaro lowering coils do NOT use stacker coils.

With the OEM struts and Pedders lowering coils installed, we move to bush timing. The rubber bushes in the control arms are bonded to steel ferules. When the suspension arms move up and down, the rubber in the bush twists. It is part of the OEM spring rate calculation. When ride height is changed, the bushes must be timed or relaxed to the new ride height. Timing prevents premature bush wear and allows for even load in the rubber twist as the arms move up and down. In the rear the toe, trailing arm, strut, RLCA, and upper inner bushes need to be relaxed. To do so we loosen the bolts that hold them.

The inner two bolts on both arms.

The toe bolts.

Trailing Arm and Toe Bolts

Upper Inner Bolts

The front virtual pivot suspension has only four total bushes. The LCA inners and the Radius bush outer. Sorry, I don't have a picture of the front LCA inner bolts.

Front Radius / Tension arm Bolts.

The next step is to drive the car with the slightly loose bolts to allow everything to settle and then drive on the alignment rack for the final steps: Tighten everything with the weight of the car on the wheels and alignment.

How did we do?

Pedders Tight Spec Alignment

Caster LF 6.0 RF 6.0
Camber LF -0.7 RF -0.7
Toe LF 0.00 RF -0.1

Camber LR -0.5 RR -0.5
Toe LR 0.13 RR 0.11

Caster LF 6.6 RF 6.6
Camber LF -0.7 RF -0.7
Toe LF 0.00 RF -0.00

Camber LR -0.7 RR -0.8
Toe LR 0.13 RR 0.12

How tight are these alignments? When the wind blew, not a big wind, into the shop the readings would drift. When I say they were perfect just before or after we printed the page our two Camaro owners can verify my statement. The purpose of the day was to demonstrate that V6 Camaros can be lowered without coil noise, coil trap issues or any other issues and not kill trees printing the perfect alignment. We would like to have set the rear cambers to ZERO, but you cannot get from here to there with the OEM alignment bolts. The OEM Rear Camber Eccentrics were literally maxed out. While this will vary from Camaro to Camaro I have yet to see a lowered Camaro get to ZERO rear camber with OE eccentrics.

Front camber is adjusted with a camber screw (bolt) in the knuckle.

There should be a 10mm 1.5 pitch Camber Adjusting Screw in the empty holes above. The Camaro does not ship with them and to my knowledge they are not available as a part. This is a great time to dispel a few myths about Camaro front camber adjustment. The strut clevis bracket is slotted for camber adjustment from the factory. You can see the upper hole is slotted in this picture.

Do NOT use camber adjusting offset bolts on the Camaro

If you want to put them on your Honda or Subie it is up to you. They are not as strong as the OEM clevis bolts and are absolutely necessary on a 5th Gen Camaro. It is in the

This is the correct way to adjust front camber on the 5th Gen. One the alignment machine with the clevis bolts loose turning the camber screw tighter (Righty Tighty, Lefty Loosy) will push the knuckle away from the strut. Loosening the camber screw allows the knuckle to fall in toward the strut.

Your alignment shop may have a T.O.M.C.A.T. Air-Assisted Multiple Camber Adjustment Tool air bag. It fits between the wheel and the strut and works in the same way as the camber screw. Inflate (Righty Tighty) the bag to push the knuckle away from the strut or deflate (lefty Loosy) the bag to allow the knuckle to fall into the strut.

Anyone that tells you different, have them call me

Both Camaros we lowered today are daily drivers. Tire wear is important to both owners. The alignments they left with drive great. Ask them. The alignments we gave them are an excellent balance of tire wear and handling. Alignments should be done at least once a year. Compared to new tires alignments are cheap.

Both Camaros drive great! The owners described the ride as more firm, but smoother. When asked about noises after the test drives both said there were none. Both also were very clear about the improvements in drive quality with the tight spec alignments. Typing about there feelings doesn't say as much as a couple of pictures.

JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2012, 10:35 PM   #490
VIR Specialist

JusticePete's Avatar
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,242
Sway Bars

Sway Bars
With these foundational elements (sub-frame inserts or full bushes and radius / tension inserts or bushes) in place your Camaro is ready for the final tuning element. Pedders Solution A 27mm front bar will reduce body lean and roll resulting in a more enjoyable drive for the vast majority of Camaro drivers. We call Solution A the Daily Driver. Driving down the highway and moderately sport speed turns there is less body lean and roll. Driven past 7/10s there is a noticeable increase in understeer. For the many Camaro owners upgrading the front bar with radius and sub-frame bush inserts are the ONLY modifications they will ever need or want.

For the more sporting Camaro driver a set of 27mm front and 32mm rear bars are the solution. This is our updated Solution B. Solution B creates a well balanced 5th Gen with a bias to oversteer. With the front bar set to full soft and the rear bar set to full hard your 5th Gen is track ready. You wanted oversteer. You got it now. In the rain, cold weather and snow these sway bar settings create a very loose car and must be driven with caution. Respect it. If your driving skills are not NASA or SCCA levels, tone the bars down. Set the front bar to full hard and the rear bar to full soft. As you grow comfortable with the new balance of your Camaro move the front bar a hole to the soft side. That is the beauty of Solution B. Solution B puts you in control of your setup from well balanced daily driver to track ready.

Pedders new Solution Z is the ultimate set of sways for a 5th Gen and that does include the ZL1 and 1LE.

We picked a photo of the ZL1 on track and matched to a photo in what we consider to be very similar conditions. At some point in time we'll get a ZL1, 1LE and a Fully Pedderised Camaro on track for direct comparisons with data. At this point, I can tell you from my personal driving experience in Z bar equipped ZL1s compared to OE ZL1s the picture is more accurate than you might think IMO.

The front bar is a 27mm three position adjustable bar and fits your 5th Gen with or without electric steering. The rear bar is 32mm FE4 / FE5 / FE6 style that mounts out board close to the knuckle with a drop link and is adjustable with three level of progressively harder bushes. In the hands of a professional driver a Solution Z set of bars on the 5th Gen Camaro is capable of performing like a race car, actually faster than many race cars – with a street friendly ride. A fully Pedderised 5th Gen, a Camaro like the Pedders USA, LLC Camaro, is thisclose to a Perfect 10 with the Z Bars installed.

If your Camaro is a ZL1 Solution Z is a bolt an go upgrade. Your OE endlink will work with Pedders Z bars because GM upgraded the links for the ZL1.

If you Camaro is equipped with FE4 suspension, you'll want to select Solution Z with endlinks and drop links.

If your Camaro is equipped with FE3 suspension, you'll want to select a Solution Z conversion kit. This kit includes new ZL1 RLCA and endlinks to update your Camaro with a turn key solution.

The OEM endlinks are designed for OEM anticipated driving and the load created by the OEM sway bars. The front endlink is 10mm and the rear is 10mm with modest sized ball joints. The front endlink is mounted high up on the strut or a high roll center mount. Connecting the sway bar high up on the strut increases the efficiency of the bar. It helps the car roll or lean less. On the 1LE and ZL1 the sway bar connects to the endlink with a 12mm ball stud. For Pedders, this is a back to the future moment. We shipped our very first sway bars out with.... 12mm ball studs.

The FE3 rear sway bar mount geometry is not as efficient as the front design. The endlinks mount well in board on the lower control arm making it far from ideal. This is arguably the weakest design feature of the ZETA and ZETA II architecture. The Camaro delivers with a staggered wheel and tire package and bars almost identical in size but not in function. This configuration creates a solid driving experience until the vehicle is pushed passed 7/10s. (When we say 7/10s what we are referencing is the absolute capacity of a car. Race cars are driven at 10/10s. Driving that hard causes failures. You may see a race car being pushed to 11/10s for the last few laps of a close race. Racers spend most track time running in the 9/10s range.) The first rule of racing is to finish 1st, First you have to finish. Most automobile testing is done at 7/10s by OEMs. Of course there are exceptions. A Camaro at 7/10s is a very fast automobile. Press on past 7/10s and at this level of aggressive driving understeer becomes dominant. Continue to press the range and you can plow the North 40!

FE4 moves the mounting points out board and close to the knuckle. This change is a HUGE plus for the 5th Gen. The FE5 and FE6 are even better using a 28mm solid bar from the factory. Well done Chevrolet! The move to the FE4, 4 & 6 suspensions allowed Pedders to develop the Z bar. It is a 32mm solid, just like the factory bar.

Old Style Inboard Mount

New FE4 / FE5 / FE6 Style

There are several solutions to this, but before we go there allow us to explain our philosophy on sway bars as the final tuning element to a suspension. Everything starts with foundational bushes. We have to have a stable foundation before we change or tweak anything in the suspension. That is why we always start with the weakest foundational bushes first. After the bushes come the coils and dampers. Now that the suspension is solid from the foundational level on up, we can tune with sway bars. Adding sway bars before any other key component is the same as placing a Band-Aid over a bleeding artery. It might look better. It might even feel better, but the foundational issues are still there.

Not all sway bars are created equal. At Pedders we expect a sway bar to be made of high quality spring steel. We expect the bars to be heat treated after they are bent to restore the spring in spring steel with maximum function. That means a Pedders bar made of the same diameter steel with many times be stronger than a brand-x bar made of the same material.

There is a fine line between R & D testing and having fun with our fleet. We cross it constantly because it is the best way to develop product for our enthusiast clients. It is one thing to test drive a vehicle for a day or two. It is a very different experience to live with a vehicle month after month. We believe it is the only way to understand your Camaro driving experience.

We have determined in our testing and daily driving that a 27mm front bar 428020-27A is correct for the Camaro in a variety of configurations. When a car starts to slide, the first action of most drivers will be to ease of the gas and / or get on the brakes. If you are in an understeer mode, as speed is reduced the slide will reduce. Lifting off the gas or hitting the brakes does not cause any dramatic reaction when in understeer mode. This is why mass produced vehicles are designed to understeer. It is what drivers are most accustomed too. It is the safe and conservative path. If you want to change your sway bars you have to ask yourself what you want to accomplish.

The vast majority of Camaro owners would be changing bars to reduce body lean and improve turn in. Keep in mind that driving a Camaro past 7/10s means you are making extremely high speed maneuvers. Many Camaro owners will never experience factory understeer -- because they don't push that hard when they drive. That doesn't mean they would not have a superior driving experience with a larger diameter front bar. A larger diameter front bar will greatly reduce the lean you feel on the highway or in a turn. It will improve turn in to a point, but when it goes into understeer, it will be worse than with the factory bar. Up to that point, it will provide a very rewarding driving experience. This 27mm front bar has three adjustment positions to allow you to vary your setup. Camaro Solution A Pedders 27mm front bar that ships with urethane D Bushes, Brackets and a Pair of OEM Quiet Adjustable Endlinks.

For the more aggressive enthusiast Camaro owners, those that want a rewarding driving experience and a reduction in actual understeer Pedders Solution B will be the answer. In this configuration, the front bar is 27mm 428020-27A and the rear bar is 32mm 429020-32A. The transition from slight understeer to slight oversteer will be predictable based on the velocity of the vehicle. The faster the vehicle travels, the faster the vehicle will enter oversteer in a turn. This setup requires the driver to know the difference between understeer and oversteer as well as how to react to both. You have to know when you can lift and when you cannot lift or things will get worse fast. Both bars are adjustable. Start out with the rear bar set to full soft and the front bar to full hard. Work through the adjustment range until you are comfortable with your setup. We encourage ALL Camaro owners to take a performance driving class to learn how to safely operate a high performance vehicle. Camaro Solution B includes 27mm front bar, 32mm rear bar, Urethane D bushes and OEM Quiet Adjustable endlinks.

Pedders has put together a track ready sway bar package. The front bar remains at 27mm, but the rear bar increases in diameter to 32mm and mounts out board close to the knuckle with a drop link. The larger rear bar and new mounting points allow you to adjust in the amount of oversteer you desire. Between the front and rear bar adjustments you can create a very loose and very fast track ready Camaro. Make no mistake about it; this is an aggressive setup that ships with a disclaimer. The disclaimer makes clear that while your Camaro feels glued to the road at stupid fast speeds and you think can deny the laws of physics you would be wrong and solely responsible for your own safety. We do want you to send us your Podium Finish Pictures. Pedders USA, LLC has no interest in your damaged Camaro from a stupid fast high-speed street incident. We told you before you bought the Z bars they would perform exceptionally well for SCCA and NASA qualified drivers for TRACK USE. You and you alone must know your driving limits. Camaro Solution Zs includes 27mm front bar, 32mm rear bar, D Bushes that use OEM Brackets for strength and depending on the year of you Camaro may also include OE ZL1 RLCA, Droplinks and OE Quiet Endlinks.

The first step in upgrading sway bar function is to improve the endlink. Pedders OEM Quiet Adjustable Endlinks are more robust than the OEM endlinks. They also use a ball bearing based high efficiency ball-joint that delivers OEM quiet with spherical efficiency. The solution is to increase the bar diameters. The question is how much should we increase them and for which type of driver?

Pedders sway bars are made of solid stock. We choose to use solid stock for consistency in production. In a hollow bar, the thickness of the wall determines the strength of the tube. Anything less than a perfect bend reduces the strength of a hollow bar more than the same imperfection would in a solid bar. Solid stock is far more forgiving of less than perfect bends consistently delivering superior strength. The weight savings of a hollow bar becomes less and less significant as you study the application of material. First the weight is not unsprung so five or ten pounds does not radically alter the function of the suspension. It is not spinning mass as would be a brake rotor or tire and wheel so the weight doesn't not radically alter the function of the brakes. It is weight placed very low in the vehicle creating a very slight shift in vertical CG, but that too is of little significance. In the end, a 27mm solid bar is stronger than a 27mm hollow bar with a slight weight disadvantage. (There is much confusion on the subject of solid vs. hollow bars. One of the best discussions from independent sources is available on the BMW forum. BMW Thread. The second post by Matt M. has the most comprehensive information.) It is our view that in volume production for a street enthusiast vehicle a solid sway bar will be the most consistent solution. Pedders provides the informed and educated Camaro owner with three sway bar solutions to match your driving skills and style that not only include the standard mounting hardware, but also include adjustable double ball joint endlinks to deliver the best possible driving experience.

With the foundational components are in place you will find Pedders Camaro adjustable bars to be a significant improvement to your OEM bars. The center adjustment position delivers 27mm front bar performance. Each position you move toward the firmer setting, toward the sway bar mounting D bush will increase the sway bar rate 1mm. The same is true moving away from the D bush toward the softest setting. With this range of adjustment built into both the front and rear bars and Pedders range of bars you should be able to adjust them to match your specific Camaro setup requirements. Keep in mind, that buying sway bars BEFORE you have installed EP1200 or 1201 Sub-Frame Inserts or Bushes along with at least the EP6578 Radius Bush Inserts is a mistake. You'll never enjoy the full benefit of the bars until you do. Many who follow this advice will find they don't need a sway bar upgrade. The weakest elements in the Camaro are the Sub-Frame and radius Bushes -- not sway bars. Build a solid foundation using Pedders bushes, dampers and coils and then use sway bars as the final tuning element.

2012 and On FE4 / FE5 Sway Bars

The Camaro SS FE4 suspension moves the rear sway bar endlink / drop link mounting close to the knuckle to increase efficiency. The stock bars are now solid 23mm front and 24mm rear. The ZL1 runs 25mm solid front bars and 28mm solid rear bars. Chevrolet moved from hollow to solid bars for strength and durability. They did well, very well

Pedders exists to take Modern Muscle to the next level and we have a particular affinity for the 5th Gen Camaro. Our FE4 / FE5 sway bars are solid. The front is 27mm and adjustable. The rears are 32mm. Our bar sets are sold with high efficiency OEM quiet front end-links and fixed position drop- links. How do they perform, do you really need to ask? The owner of this Camaro is a law enforcement professional with countless hours of driver training. His professional opinion -- 'Holy shit, man! The front HOOKED not even CLOSE to breaking traction and the back end stayed right with it. I mean....when the car turns, it TURNS.'

Our FE4 / 5 rear sway bars can be retro fit to any 5th Gen Camaro. The new Camaro rear lower control arms have the 'old' style close to the differential endlink mounting tabs and the 'new' close to the knuckle mounting hole. This is a smart choice by Chevrolet as one common part number can be used on all versions of the 5th Gen Camaro. The new OE lower rear control arms are inexpensive.

Why did Chevrolet make the change in rear sway bar geometry and size? To make the 5th Gen handle better. From day one of the 5th Gen the bias of the car has been heavy on understeer. This is a function of weight distribution, wheel base, track, wheel and tire size and of course sway bar strength. The FE4 addresses both with improved rear sway bar geometry and sway bar strength. The old bars were hollow. The new bars are solid, the material is stronger. The old bars were almost the same diameter (strength) front and rear. The new FE4 rear bar is 1mm larger than the front. It doesn't sound like much, but coupled with the increase in efficiency of the new outboard mounting position it is a big difference. The FE4 Camaro is far more balanced that the FE3 SS. It is more neutral and handles better in the corners.

The new FE5 ZL1 takes this all on steroids. The front bar goes up in size to 25mm and the rear bar a huge jump to 28mm. Talk about balance from the factory

At Pedders, even great isn't good enough. We set the rear camber to half the front camber or even less at -0.50 . The on track results were excellent. We feel we had a ZL1 two years ago with our Pedders USA Camaro. Now, there is a ZL1 so we have been hard at work with our partners at Lingenfelter on the L/28. The L/28 running Pedders new FE4 / FE5 / ZL1 sway bars is considerably faster than the ZL1 or a Z06 and we trailed a hioghly modified well driven ZR1 by just under a second at Eagle Canyon.

Here is the new rear bar complete with Pedders drop-link.

The new 32mm bar takes up space, but there are ZERO clearance issues.

Development is never ending at Peders. It is in our company DNA and our clients consistently ask for more. We are just like them. More is better.

#1 The efficiency of the rear droplink is dependent on the drop link orientation to the lower control arm. If the droplink is not straight up and down it impairs the efficiency of operation.

#2 The Pedders rear Z style bar is adjustable in function though the bushes on the droplinks. Inserting one softer bush per side to replace the supplied high durometer bushes softens the bar a bit. Two soften it more. If the change in pairs of bushes is too great you can change only one side.

#3 Pedders Z style drop links can be adjusted in height to account for variation in ride height due to corner weighting.

#4 We have sold pallets of our new style bars. We received some negative feedback from clients looking to run larger than 11" wide rear wheels or Corvette rear wheels with drag radials. We listen to our clients and swapped out a few of the Z bars to inboard 32mm bars and links. We have not revised the Pedders Z style bar to fit up to 11.5 wide rears and the Vette wheel and drag radial.

Clearance at full droop is the key. At normal ride height increases. This shows the clearance of the most popular drag rear wheel and tire setup.

#5 The only Z style rear sway bar that can accommodate Pedders Supercar Remote Reservoirs are Pedders Z style bars.

Last edited by JusticePete; 12-18-2012 at 11:09 PM.
JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Houston Area Speed Traps & Ticket Stories crzycicada USA - Texas 2 10-13-2009 08:16 PM
[DFW] Dallas Area 35th LE Gathering -- September 26, 2009 Brangeta USA - Texas 11 09-24-2009 10:24 AM
FS: 2006 GTO in the Dallas area blevina Autos For Sale / Wanted 10 05-28-2009 07:43 PM
Dallas Area - Start posting up performance shops to go to! Crowley USA - Texas 13 05-03-2009 01:33 PM
Saw a yellow SS in Dallas area. kmdrum79 Camaro Photos | Spyshots | Video | Media Gallery 23 03-30-2009 04:13 PM

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:28 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.