Microfiber cloths, expensive isn't necessarily better.

[oachalon]

I bought a set of 16x16 detail master pro eagle edgeless towels from the rag company and they put swirls/scratches on my clear coat when taking my wax off. Neither my towels from adams or from zaino did that.

I follow their washing procedures and they get washed the same way as my adams and zaino towels, so i dont know whats going on with them.

[Muscle Car Memories]

Originally Posted by JTruck

But you said they don't leave you scratches..?

The MF towels I currently have come from wally world and have worked fine with no scratches and look to be the same brand as the costco ones, thats what i was getting at but I also dont dry the entire car with them either, I use my gas blower after washing my Camaro and then RUSHING to get into the garage before water spots set up and after using the gas blower I use detail spray and the MF towels to finish it up and works great, I have yet to see scratches and would put my car up to anyones who uses the more expensive towels. I just think alot of these items seen on auto detailing websites are all hype and basically overpriced and take your money for a item thats no better than something that works just as good except its cheaper.

[JTruck]

Originally Posted by Muscle Car Memories

The MF towels I currently have come from wally world and have worked fine with no scratches and look to be the same brand as the costco ones, thats what i was getting at but I also dont dry the entire car with them either, I use my gas blower after washing my Camaro and then RUSHING to get into the garage before water spots set up and after using the gas blower I use detail spray and the MF towels to finish it up and works great, I have yet to see scratches and would put my car up to anyones who uses the more expensive towels. I just think alot of these items seen on auto detailing websites are all hype and basically overpriced and take your money for a item thats no better than something that works just as good except its cheaper.

You've only had your car for four months. Take out the lights and look at your paint in a couple more and you will be eating your words.

[Wuiquen]

Originally Posted by Muscle Car Memories

The MF towels I currently have come from wally world and have worked fine with no scratches and look to be the same brand as the costco ones, thats what i was getting at but I also dont dry the entire car with them either, I use my gas blower after washing my Camaro and then RUSHING to get into the garage before water spots set up and after using the gas blower I use detail spray and the MF towels to finish it up and works great, I have yet to see scratches and would put my car up to anyones who uses the more expensive towels. I just think alot of these items seen on auto detailing websites are all hype and basically overpriced and take your money for a item thats no better than something that works just as good except its cheaper.

I don't agree with you. First, did u really use a GAS blower? Usually it is preferable to use an electric one.. Then, if all microfiber are the same and the all don't scratch the clear coat, how do I get swirls on my paint?? I will tell you that the first year or so I didn't notice any swirls using the cheapest towel and poor detailing/auto cleaning techniques. Now are three almost 4 years, Boy, you can see them. And I ilonly have 12k miles on it. I respect ur opinion about the hype and all. Just don't agree. Hopefully ur strategies will continue to give you a clean and swirls free clear coat.

[gofast908z]

Originally Posted by Muscle Car Memories

The MF towels I currently have come from wally world and have worked fine with no scratches and look to be the same brand as the costco ones, thats what i was getting at but I also dont dry the entire car with them either, I use my gas blower after washing my Camaro and then RUSHING to get into the garage before water spots set up and after using the gas blower I use detail spray and the MF towels to finish it up and works great, I have yet to see scratches and would put my car up to anyones who uses the more expensive towels. I just think alot of these items seen on auto detailing websites are all hype and basically overpriced and take your money for a item thats no better than something that works just as good except its cheaper.

Ah, so you've tried all these "overpriced" towels then....

[L&M CAMARO 6]

Originally Posted by Muscle Car Memories

The MF towels I currently have come from wally world and have worked fine with no scratches and look to be the same brand as the costco ones, thats what i was getting at but I also dont dry the entire car with them either, I use my gas blower after washing my Camaro and then RUSHING to get into the garage before water spots set up and after using the gas blower I use detail spray and the MF towels to finish it up and works great, I have yet to see scratches and would put my car up to anyones who uses the more expensive towels. I just think alot of these items seen on auto detailing websites are all hype and basically overpriced and take your money for a item thats no better than something that works just as good except its cheaper.

OMG gas blower = you are applying a coating of oil and dirt.
PLEASE use a Master Blaster, pricy but the air is filtered and heated, yes it is expensive but so is your car.

[DylanVK]

What seems to be the issue here, as it is in a lot of conversations like this, is the lack of understanding or justification for the price. Also varying standards in what 'scratch free' looks like - I've been to enough shows, seen enough cars, and been in this business long enough to know that people have VERY different definitions of what 'perfect' looks like. I can't even count the number of customers who have told me "my paint is almost perfect, very few swirl marks" only to have something like this show up



Some people have different standards. Its a gift and a curse. I regularly joke that "WHAT HAS BEEN SEEN CANNOT BE UNSEEN!" If you've gotten into paint correction you'll see every defect and obsesses over every flaw - even on other peoples cars. Until your eyes are opened to that you could have a car that looks like that above and think thats acceptable.

So as far as the justification of towel prices. There are 2 standards by which a microfiber towel is going to be generally categorized -

1. Ratio - the amount of polyester in relation to the amount of polyamide
2. Weight - the mass of the towel - higher weight = more fibers and denser configuration.

With the cheap-o towels you find at places like costco you are at best going to get a 80/20 towel - pretty much considered the bare bones minimum to actually qualify as a microfiber towel. A quality towel is going to typically fall in the 75/25 or 70/30 range for ratio - as the amount of polyamide in the towels construction increases, so does the cost but so does the quality.

As far as weight, I don't know specifically what the cheap-o towels are going to be rated at weight wise, but typically an 80/20 towel of that type is going to fall into the 200-220gsm range. This is a low density towel - generally best reserved for 'non delicate' surfaces. Like mentioned above use those for scrubbing your leather, wiping down your dash, or other tasks where they're not going to risk damage introduction. Its generally accepted that anything below the 350gsm threshold is not going to be 'clear coat safe' for most cars. Below that you just don't have the fiber density and quality to use it on your paint and not see damage. Just like with the ratio, as the weight of a towel goes up so does the amount of fibers, and more material = more cost to manufacture and thus a higher retail price.

Want to see if you have a low or high density towel? Hold it up to a bright light source and stretch it out. If you can see light passing between the fibers you're dealing with a low density towel. If you can't see much, or any light, you have a higher density towel. Not exact science, but a way to get a general idea of the quality.

So just looking at towel stats alone its easy to understand why a quality towel from a reputable source is going to be a higher price than the bulk pack low density, low ratio towels at costco.

Theres a lot of analogies we can throw in here -


Bed sheets: you can sleep on 70 thread count sheets if you want, but 800 thread count sheets are going to be much softer and a higher quality and you will pay the price for that.

Toilet tissue: the singly ply, almost transparent stuff in an airport public restroom will get the job done, but its gonna feel like sandpaper and you'll probably have to double up to avoid unwanted hand to feces contact, thats probably why you buy charmin for use at home and not bulk TP from the janitorial supply place. Again, a higher cost for more layers, denser/thicker material, and quality.

Microfiber is the same... theres cheap and theres expensive, but its not like the price is inflated just for some arbitrary reason. The materials used, and the amount of them increases as does the towel quality. You may see prices higher for towels at some places, but that gets more into the economics of it, a companies operating margins, volume discounts, etc. but overall when you find a quality towel online and it costs 10-15x more than the towel you got in a bulk bag at the store, there is a reason, not just corporate greed.

In the end I always find it comical that people get so entrenched in the price of microfiber debate - even if you paid a high price for your towels in the grand scheme its not a big deal. You're maintaining a $40k+ car, not a rusty old bike, shouldn't you choose quality products to care for it?

[DylanVK]

Originally Posted by oachalon

I bought a set of 16x16 detail master pro eagle edgeless towels from the rag company and they put swirls/scratches on my clear coat when taking my wax off. Neither my towels from adams or from zaino did that.

I follow their washing procedures and they get washed the same way as my adams and zaino towels, so i dont know whats going on with them.

As just a little insider perspective here... there are very few sources for quality towels. The majority of towels form various companies all come from the same factories in Korea, TRC being no different. They're just a direct bulk importer is all, so you may very well be comparing the same towels and seeing more of a placebo effect based on the perception of the source.

[JTruck]

Originally Posted by Dylan@SCG

What seems to be the issue here, as it is in a lot of conversations like this, is the lack of understanding or justification for the price. Also varying standards in what 'scratch free' looks like - I've been to enough shows, seen enough cars, and been in this business long enough to know that people have VERY different definitions of what 'perfect' looks like. I can't even count the number of customers who have told me "my paint is almost perfect, very few swirl marks, only to have something like this show up"



Some people have different standards. Its a gift and a curse. I regularly joke that "WHAT HAS BEEN SEEN CANNOT BE UNSEEN!" If you've gotten into paint correction you'll see every defect and obsesses over every flaw - even on other peoples cars. Until your eyes are opened to that you could have a car that looks like that above and think thats acceptable.

So as far as the justification of towel prices. There are 2 standards by which a microfiber towel is going to be generally categorized -

1. Ratio - the amount of polyester in relation to the amount of polyamide
2. Weight - the mass of the towel - higher weight = more fibers and denser configuration.

With the cheap-o towels you find at places like costco you are at best going to get a 80/20 towel - pretty much considered the bare bones minimum to actually qualify as a microfiber towel. A quality towel is going to typically fall in the 75/25 or 70/30 range for ratio - as the amount of polyamide in the towels construction increases, so does the cost but so does the quality.

As far as weight, I don't know specifically what the cheap-o towels are going to be rated at weight wise, but typically an 80/20 towel of that type is going to fall into the 200-220gsm range. This is a low density towel - generally best reserved for 'non delicate' surfaces. Like mentioned above use those for scrubbing your leather, wiping down your dash, or other tasks where they're not going to risk damage introduction. Its generally accepted that anything below the 350gsm threshold is not going to be 'clear coat safe' for most cars. Below that you just don't have the fiber density and quality to use it on your paint and not see damage. Just like with the ratio, as the weight of a towel goes up so does the amount of fibers, and more material = more cost to manufacture and thus a higher retail price.

Want to see if you have a low or high density towel? Hold it up to a bright light source and stretch it out. If you can see light passing between the fibers you're dealing with a low density towel. If you can't see much, or any light, you have a higher density towel. Not exact science, but a way to get a general idea of the quality.

So just looking at towel stats alone its easy to understand why a quality towel from a reputable source is going to be a higher price than the bulk pack low density, low ratio towels at costco.

Theres a lot of analogies we can throw in here -


Bed sheets: you can sleep on 70 thread count sheets if you want, but 800 thread count sheets are going to be much softer and a higher quality and you will pay the price for that.

Toilet tissue: the singly ply, almost transparent stuff in an airport public restroom will get the job done, but its gonna feel like sandpaper and you'll probably have to double up to avoid unwanted hand to feces contact, thats probably why you buy charmin for use at home and not bulk TP from the janitorial supply place. Again, a higher cost for more layers, denser/thicker material, and quality.

Microfiber is the same... theres cheap and theres expensive, but its not like the price is inflated just for some arbitrary reason. The materials used, and the amount of them increases as does the towel quality. You may see prices higher for towels at some places, but that gets more into the economics of it, a companies operating margins, volume discounts, etc. but overall when you find a quality towel online and it costs 10-15x more than the towel you got in a bulk bag at the store, there is a reason, not just corporate greed.

In the end I always find it comical that people get so entrenched in the price of microfiber debate - even if you paid a high price for your towels in the grand scheme its not a big deal. You're maintaining a $40k+ car, not a rusty old bike, shouldn't you choose quality products to care for it?

Thank you for this, excellent info.

[Xii239]

I have nice microfiber clothes: two thick white adams polishes ones, one of the crazy blue ones, and 2 great white drying towels from adams. I wash them all together but for some reason, when I dry off my car I still get fuzzies everywhere. I am attributing it it to my drier. I guess there is just so much lint in it that it goes right onto the towels whenever I dry them. Any suggestions?

[DylanVK]

Assuming you are following proper care and keeping them separate from cotton or other materials its possible they're just defective or at the end of their lifespan (Microfiber does eventually degrade after lots of use and will begin to lose its integrity)

Have a look at this writeup when you have a moment, covers the basics of care and also has some options for addressing issues:

http://www.surfcitygarageforums.com/...ning-and-care/

[Muscle Car Memories]

Originally Posted by JTruck

You've only had your car for four months. Take out the lights and look at your paint in a couple more and you will be eating your words.

My experience cleaning and detailing cars (not for profit) just my own goes back about 35 years and as i said I would put the paint on my Camaro and previous cars up against any out there.

[Muscle Car Memories]

Originally Posted by JTruck

Thank you for this, excellent info.

This thread has come down to toilet paper....

[Muscle Car Memories]

Originally Posted by '68Z28

OMG gas blower = you are applying a coating of oil and dirt.
PLEASE use a Master Blaster, pricy but the air is filtered and heated, yes it is expensive but so is your car.

Ive explained this on another thread about gas blowers, you guys are hung up on overpriced everything IMO. And as ive said previously ive been doing this with my cars (not for profit) for about 35 years and never had a issue and I would bet you have no clue as to how to tune a 2 stroke gas blower not to put a coat of oil on a car finish. Once you learn that come back and talk to me about my fail